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Old 01-29-2019, 12:45 AM #1
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Good defoliation side by side examples

Hello, I hate to even open this can of worms, but can anyone share links to well run (clones, done at the same time with same conditions) side by sides with defoliation vs. without? It seems like every one I find on the internet either A.) Shows no difference in yield or worse yield from the defoliated ones or B.) Has a guy all gung-ho about his experiment at first that never finishes it and posts the final yield differences between the two.

It seems lots of people defoliate, but I don't see a lot of data that supports doing it. I don't care one way or the other, I just want to see the experiments so I can judge on my own.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:00 PM #2
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Hello, I hate to even open this can of worms, but can anyone share links to well run (clones, done at the same time with same conditions) side by sides with defoliation vs. without? It seems like every one I find on the internet either A.) Shows no difference in yield or worse yield from the defoliated ones or B.) Has a guy all gung-ho about his experiment at first that never finishes it and posts the final yield differences between the two.

It seems lots of people defoliate, but I don't see a lot of data that supports doing it. I don't care one way or the other, I just want to see the experiments so I can judge on my own.
Defoliation is not solely for yield, Biologist.

Defoliation benefits:
-Disease prevention around base of the plants with increased airflow and reduced moisture and humidity
-air flow in large dense bushes to prevent bud rot
-removal of lower material has been shown in some cases to push more growth to tops reducing popcorn buds
-Get light to shaded buds increasing yield

Been defoliating since my mentor taught me over 2 decades ago.
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:31 AM #3
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Originally Posted by Biologist View Post
Hello, I hate to even open this can of worms, but can anyone share links to well run (clones, done at the same time with same conditions) side by sides with defoliation vs. without? It seems like every one I find on the internet either A.) Shows no difference in yield or worse yield from the defoliated ones or B.) Has a guy all gung-ho about his experiment at first that never finishes it and posts the final yield differences between the two.

It seems lots of people defoliate, but I don't see a lot of data that supports doing it. I don't care one way or the other, I just want to see the experiments so I can judge on my own.
I would also like to point you over to the "New Grower Forum" as this obviously does not belong in advanced growing science and botany.

see here:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65676

Welcome to icmag.

I would also recommend using the "Search Bar".

OP, Moderators please move to New Grower forum.

LT
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:35 AM #4
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Are we talking about defoliation or lollypopping? Because to me they are 2 different things. I consider defoliation removing leaves from the upper parts of the plant. Am I wrong in thinking that? I always remove lower branches and foliage from beneath the canopy but rarely touch upper leaves.
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:38 AM #5
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Originally Posted by Biologist View Post
Hello, I hate to even open this can of worms, but can anyone share links to well run (clones, done at the same time with same conditions) side by sides with defoliation vs. without? It seems like every one I find on the internet either A.) Shows no difference in yield or worse yield from the defoliated ones or B.) Has a guy all gung-ho about his experiment at first that never finishes it and posts the final yield differences between the two.

It seems lots of people defoliate, but I don't see a lot of data that supports doing it. I don't care one way or the other, I just want to see the experiments so I can judge on my own.
The question it self is flawed . defoilating is for heavy indicas at appropriate times/timing .

Is it better yes and no its all about environment . some strians yes some enviourments yes . some not . kind of point less with out at least a few known variables .




To put in perspective . lets say you ask what day of flower is best to harvest ?

Hope you get the point
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:03 PM #6
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Every strain is different. Every soil is different, every light is different. Its all subjective. Thats the answer to everything Cannabis: "Its subjective"

"what works for one person may not work for another"

Defoliating is a myth. Solar panels!

Energy wasted on leaves could be used for resin production.

I think I covered all the answers you'll get.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:09 PM #7
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Originally Posted by LostTribe View Post
I would also like to point you over to the "New Grower Forum" as this obviously does not belong in advanced growing science and botany.

see here:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65676

Welcome to icmag.

I would also recommend using the "Search Bar".

OP, Moderators please move to New Grower forum.

LT
A search didn't turn up any useful threads showing a quantifiable increase in yields in a side by side comparison with decent sample sizes. There's lots of discussions about defoliation in the new growers forums but it's the same low quality info without facts backing up either side.

The lack of anyone providing side by side comparisons reinforces my view that it's still a theory that hasn't been rigorously tested, eith variations of Drewsif's answer being the norm.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:11 PM #8
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I tried it on a few different plants. Imo, it doesn't do anything but make the secondary leaves grow like crazy. Just my observation.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:55 PM #9
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I don't know any side by sides, but this person has done it and explains some findings:

https://youtu.be/xC7t4htH_ZE?t=2320 - 38:40 onwards, about lollipopping and defoliation

leaves that get < 200µmol "were not photosynthesizing efficiently (...) meaning they are not creating food, meaning they are a sink". They transpire and increase humidity.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:54 PM #10
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If you can pull a leaf shading a bud, forcing a leaf shading the floor to grow, that's a gain. Unless your 12/12 where the clock is ticking, so you don't want to be growing leaves still.

Perhaps your pulling leaves that expose both buds and more leaves that can then work properly.

A single plant from seed may grow in a way that doesn't put leaves where bud formation would be lowered. But they won't think twice about shading a neighbour. They want to beat them.

If you do a multi strain scrog grow, you will find short heavy yielding plants can get buried by lanky bean poles. So you simply loose them. Unless you actively train everything. Which involves pulling leaves to keep the shorter plants exposed.


It's logic and reasoning. Not just a blanket decision you stick with for life. Every leaf is an individual case. I scrog, and if I'm a lazy, I can easily kiss 20% goodbye. Just as intensive effort can give me 10% more. So skipping the defoliation would cost me a grow a year. I would literally be doing a grow every year, to pay for my inadequacy.

I don't have a side by side to show you. I have decades of experience. I know what I will get from the grow I haven't built yet. Some have run consistently for decades. I have tried it both ways, and paid the price on each occasion.

In ideal conditions, the plant will grow leaves it needs to get bigger. Which will ultimately become shaded in many cases. Putting a parasitic load on the leaves that are still in good locations. The plant hasn't evolved to drop them, as they're stores for mobile elements, should the need arise. Such as an early switch to flower food, that commonly causes the N to be pulled out. If that sounds like your grow, leave them on for that purpose. But once that period is over, get them off, and the one's that are still being kept alive but were not needed.



I have told people to leave me to it, as they won't want to watch. As I have snapped down over growth, pulled leaves and left a full looking room looking decimated. With instruction not to move anything for 3 days while they recover. People almost fall out with me. They would never do a proper side by side as they just don't get the picture. They think they tried it, but changed nothing.

Yet outdoors I barely do any. Their shape isn't decided upon by me. Little more than nipping the tops and pulling obvious shade issues off is done. They grow monster leaves because they need them in my climate. And as they quit making leaves long before the light becomes petty, I really need all I can get. Though anything near the bottom comes off or it's the start of a rot party. You can quickly get a ring of yuk around the trunk where it reaches out from the surrounding undergrowth. If that happens, it don't matter how healthy the top is. The plants fubared
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