Plant Growth Regulators (PGRs) thread

spurr · Jan 23, 2011

Some other good studies about jasmonate (i.e., MeJA):

"The Role of Jasmonates in Floral Nectar Secretion"
Venkatesan Radhika, Christian Kost, Wilhelm Boland, Martin Heil
PLoS ONE, vol. 5, issue. 2, e9265. (2010)

"Fast track to the trichome: induction of N-acyl nornicotines precedes nicotine induction in Nicotiana repanda" (fiddleleaf tobacco)
Grit Laue, Catherine A. Preston, Ian T. Baldwin
Planta (2000) 210: 510-514

"Interplant communication: Airborne methyl jasmonate induces synthesis of proteinase inhibitors in plant leaves"
Edward E. Farmer and Clarence A. Ryan
Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 87, pp. 7713-7716

Also:

I made typos writing "methylated jasmonic" instead of "methyl jasmonic acid". MeJA is methyl jasmonate, aka methyl jasmonic acid. MeJA is an ester of jasmonic acid.

I have gotten a few requests for a place to buy MeJA, so I figured I should post this:

Here is MeJA: link

And here is a post of mine people should check out, many PGRs sources are listed, as well as info about PPM: link

Using MeJA is similar to some other PGRs, in that it needs to be dissolved in a very small amount of alcohol (e.g., ~< 1 ml), ex., EtOH (ethanol), and then can be mixed with water. Using Jaz spray is easier than using MeJA, but using MeJA isn't hard. I think one could also use isopropyl alcohol (=>70%) to dissolve MeJA, instead of EtOH. I plan to test using Iso (91%) instead of EtOH on my next grow...

FWIW:

Plants naturally contain and produce at least two forms of JA (jasmonic acid), i.e., jasmonate molecules. AFAIU, plants contain (at least) JA and MeJA, and it's MeJA that is used by plants to form trichomes.

Scrogerman · Jan 23, 2011

Wow, Great link spurr, very interestingt company!(PhytoTechlabs!) They have everything! + all the other links n stuff, very useful! Cheers Mate!

Just watch!, Canna or AN may have to pay a 'Hitman' to silence you old chap lol!

Have you actually got any simple recipies to make DIY growth boosters/promoters knocking about mate? there should be a DIY thread(made simple for everyone). I can think of a few basic recipes already. Save a fortune.

rocket high · Jan 23, 2011

HI Spur this is a great thread :biggrin:

can you order these products for distribution to the UK, as this would be a test i would be interested in, It says its for lab research only so it might be a problem getting them to ship it to a private address in the UK .

P.S I tried to order JAZ Rose Spray but there's no option for shipping to a different country it's only states in the US as a option on the order form . I will need to see if there's a UK distributor to help us Brits out .

i found this http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/jasmine/jasminev.htm it's pretty basic but the info is there none the less ...

jaded1 · Jan 23, 2011

Great thread Spurr!Yeah Rocket have been searching for a uk supplier as well but to no avail.
Have found methyl jasmonate at www.bioscience.co.uk.
Am i right that the 1 i want is the methyl ester?

rocket high · Jan 23, 2011

Thanks jaded1 thats what i was looking for :biggrin:

its imported from the US to Cam Bio, it must be they're UK arm.

I hope 1g goes a long way

spurr · Jan 23, 2011

jaded1 said:
Great thread Spurr!Yeah Rocket have been searching for a uk supplier as well but to no avail.
Have found methyl jasmonate at www.bioscience.co.uk.
Am i right that the 1 i want is the methyl ester?

Yup, that is what you want, methyl jasmonate is a methyl ester of jasmonic acid.

DonkDBZ · Jan 24, 2011

Triacontanol and Brass.

Foliar?

How often?
say from rooted clone. how tall would you suggest before applying

Just order some Jaz and 6-Benzylaminopurine they are out of Jasmonic Acid.

Clackamas Coot · Jan 28, 2011

spurr

Looking at the terms 'fermented kelp' and/or 'fermented seaweed' turned up page after page of using this form for HABA products but little as far as using it for an agriculture or horticulture application.

Here's my question, basically. I plan on using the air-dried kelp meal from Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. which will give me a known quality.

There are a couple of ways to ferment this kelp meal and one would be to add an amount of kelp meal to a cistern and adding 3x that volume with clear water and then adding EM (whatever flavor one chooses I suppose) and a carbohydrate. This would give you a liquid extract (duh!) as well as a paste of fermented kelp that you would separate from the liquid.

The other method would be to use the kelp meal as a base for making 'bokashi bran' which would leave the kelp meal particles intact but fermented and once it was dried could be added to the soil as an amendment. I've done this with a wide combination of seed meals and took it down to < 2.8 pH with good results.

The term 'fermented mannitol' came up quite often using SCIRUS vs. Google (general version) - any thoughts on that?

Any other suggestions or coments?

Thanks!

CC

spurr · Jan 28, 2011

DonkDBZ said:
Triacontanol and Brass.

Foliar?

yes.

How often?

About every two weeks starting early in growth (either by seed-plants or clones). There are reports that Brass might have negative cross-talk with JA (thanks Oswizzlie, for that study). So I spray Brass during veg and very early pre-flowering; separate from JA by at least a week.

Brass can make plants stretch if over applied, I have been guilty of that in the past. Brass can/does increase cell elongation, that is why it can make plants stretch if over applied. Conversely, if a Brass inhibitor is applied it can make plants stretch/grow less, similar to applying a Plant Grow Retardant.

Tria usage rates are ~1-25 ppm; lower is better if providing sufficient effect. This grow I plan on testing 1 ppm.

Brass usage rates are 0.01-0.1 ppm; at 0.1 ppm plants stretched too much for me, so I never use over 0.05 ppm. This grow I will test either 0.025 ppm, or use 0.01 ppm because I have used that with success in the past. Lower is always better if it provides sufficient effect.

say from rooted clone. how tall would you suggest before applying

Once rooted clones have been transplanted (either to soil, soilless or hydro), I wait a few days to a week before applying them.

Just order some Jaz and 6-Benzylaminopurine they are out of Jasmonic Acid.

Super-grow doesn't sell JA, MeJA or MDHJ; but I am going to ask that he does start selling MeJA. I bet he will start once I suggest and I provide the science to back up my request; he's a really nice guy. I am surprised he doesn't sell SA, too. I have a little experience with BAP, it's very easy to over apply and make plants stretch like crazy; I prefer to use high quality kelp extract instead.

:tiphat:

Xerhoss · Jan 29, 2011

GREAT thread!

Soakin it up... :thank you:

Madrus Rose · Jan 29, 2011

Scrogerman said:
Wow, Great link spurr, very interestingt company!(PhytoTechlabs!) They have everything! + all the other links n stuff, very useful! Cheers Mate!

Just watch!, Canna or AN may have to pay a 'Hitman' to silence you old chap lol!

Have you actually got any simple recipies to make DIY growth boosters/promoters knocking about mate? there should be a DIY thread(made simple for everyone). I can think of a few basic recipes already. Save a fortune.

NIce reference link/site for sure ..

Just for the IBA (3-indole butyric acid ) & napthalene acetic acid which are the 2 main active ingredients (PGRs) in very our very expensive Dipping root solutions & gels ,
you could save a ton of $$$ .
http://www.phytotechlab.com/searchresult.aspx?categoryid=24
Would have so much could sell it cheaply to friends

But u can order kilos of IBA from china for $95-$150 and Napthalene for $20 a kilo ...20-50x's cheaper . Then we'd have to open a nute company & outsell Big Mike from AN ! :biggrin:

** Lets see a kilo each of IBA & Napthalene would cost together about $170 and u could make a 1000gals of gel or solution & sell 8ozs retail for $20 ?

Thats 16,000 cups or 8oz jars times $20 minus the $170 for initial ingredients & a little for packaging & shipping so you end up with $300,000 profit for me & you !
Well something like that ...i like it ,i like it ...and cookie monster likes it too !

lol

GoldenSilence · Jan 29, 2011

Madrus Rose said:
Then we'd have to open a nute company & outsell Big Mike from AN !

lol

Madrus Rose · Jan 29, 2011

Am just starting to get in on the "Lets put Big Mike from AN in the Spotlight " movie ....

1lt bottle of AN Bud Candy is $28.20 on Amazon

...and one listed ingredient is 0.5% Mg derived from
MagSulphate which he's buying from china for 22c/kilo

"Bud Candy" label
http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/oregon/oregon_labels/BudCandy_Registered.pdf

Spur/op , can u do the math on how much 1lt bottles of Bud Candy we could
make from one Kilo of MgSo4 (98%) at this dillution ?

ty

Clackamas Coot · Jan 29, 2011

Madrus Rose said:
Spur/op , can u do the math on how much Bud Candy we could
make from one Kilo of MgSo4 at this dillution ?

ty

Or check out the levels of soluble magnesium in Sul-Po-Mag/K-MAG/Sulfate of Potash Magnesia/Langbeinite. Mined from ancient sea deposits - fully organic with minimal processing.

It's $.40 per lb. and even less if you buy a full pallet.

CC

OsWiZzLe · Jan 29, 2011

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/56/419/2527.abstract

Methyl jasmonate stimulates the de novo biosynthesis of vitamin C in plant cell suspensions

Abstract
Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) is an important primary metabolite of plants that functions as an antioxidant, an enzyme cofactor, and a cell-signalling modulator in a wide array of crucial physiological processes, including biosynthesis of the cell wall, secondary metabolites and phytohormones, stress resistance, photoprotection, cell division, and growth. Plants synthesize ascorbic acid via de novo and salvage pathways, but the regulation of its biosynthesis and the mechanisms behind ascorbate homeostasis are largely unknown. Jasmonic acid and its methyl ester (jasmonates) mediate plant responses to many biotic and abiotic stresses by triggering a transcriptional reprogramming that allows cells to cope with pathogens and stress. By using 14C-mannose radiolabelling combined with HPLC and transcript profiling analysis, it is shown that methyl jasmonate treatment increases the de novo synthesis of ascorbic acid in Arabidopsis and tobacco Bright Yellow-2 (BY-2) suspension cells. In BY-2 cells, this stimulation coincides with enhanced transcription of at least two late methyl jasmonate-responsive genes encoding enzymes for vitamin C biosynthesis: the GDP-mannose 3″,5″-epimerase and a putative L-gulono-1,4-lactone dehydrogenase/oxidase. As far as is known, this is the first report of a hormonal regulation of vitamin C biosynthesis in plants. Finally, the role of ascorbic acid in jasmonate-regulated stress responses is reviewed.

OsWiZzLe · Jan 29, 2011

www.funpecrp.com.br/gmr/year2010/vol9-1/pdf/gmr754.pdf

OsWiZzLe · Jan 29, 2011

http://www.rhul.ac.uk/Biological-Sciences/AcademicStaff/Devoto/

Establish the link between jasmonate signalling and the cell cycle

ganjasuiteseat · Jan 29, 2011

DonkDBZ · Jan 30, 2011

Thanks for the info Spurr.

So I put my order in with Phytotechlab and get a email.

Since this product is classified as a plant growth regulator (PGR) when it is used for purposes other than research it is subject to the EPA's enforcement of FIFRA (the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act) as cited in the US Code of Federal Regulations (40CFR152.15). As this, and all of our products, are labeled for laboratory research only, we must confirm that:

1) you are purchasing this product for tissue culture or experimental use on plants, and

2) you will NOT use this product for human, animal, or pharmaceutical applications.

To this end please tell us how you intend to use this product.

Specifically, we need to know what type of application/experimentation you intend to perform with this product.

Please include what species, treatments, concentrations, etc. you intend to do.

Should our sales records be audited by Federal authorities your response to this inquiry will be provided to them to demonstrate our due diligence in screening PGR orders as required by law.

So I sent my crappy response and no reply and no charge to my card.

So what to tell em to get them to send me stuff?

Scrogerman · Jan 30, 2011

Madrus Rose said:
NIce reference link/site for sure ..

Just for the IBA (3-indole butyric acid ) & napthalene acetic acid which are the 2 main active ingredients (PGRs) in very our very expensive Dipping root solutions & gels ,
you could save a ton of $$$ .
http://www.phytotechlab.com/searchresult.aspx?categoryid=24
Would have so much could sell it cheaply to friends

But u can order kilos of IBA from china for $95-$150 and Napthalene for $20 a kilo ...20-50x's cheaper . Then we'd have to open a nute company & outsell Big Mike from AN !

** Lets see a kilo each of IBA & Napthalene would cost together about $170 and u could make a 1000gals of gel or solution & sell 8ozs retail for $20 ?

Thats 16,000 cups or 8oz jars times $20 minus the $170 for initial ingredients & a little for packaging & shipping so you end up with $300,000 profit for me & you !
Well something like that ...i like it ,i like it ...and cookie monster likes it too !

lol

Hey Mad,
Im with ya bro, count me in lol. I have already got some great ideas. Cookie Monster knows the score!

I dont believe that BudCandy is just a bit of Epsom & demineralised water or the like. I thought this product was a combination of AN'Carboload' which is a sorta Gel & AN'Sweet' which is also a Mollasses derivitive IIRC. Not sure why AN only give Mg'S as the only source ingredient in this stuff, i just cant see it. Who's got the answers here?
Do AN have to list every single ingredient, i dont think they do & dont?? I would'nt give my ingredients away if i was AN either.(never understood this)

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