User Friendly Recipes

ThePhiloStoned · May 17, 2019

Knew you couldn't help but respond again.

dank.frank said:
There was NEVER a twitter account for the NSPB mix. I'm not even sure Twitter existed yet. What website?

Bro, Google that ish, like wtf, there is a Twitter account right now called NSPB: FLF that was started in 2012, talking about a Kickstarter & a website that was being started...why tf do you think I'm lying to you, g*****mn!!!

Microbeman · May 17, 2019

You could try my first recipe; Loamy topsoil, composted horse manure, dolomite, river sand-gravel; soil feeding > fermented plant extracts > vermicompost tea; Sun

ThePhiloStoned · May 17, 2019

mr underhill said:
The simplest water only recipe proven to grow big healthy heavy yielding plants is the Tom Hill recipe. I used to gather all the items on these super soil recipes and others and in the end, the tastiest , cleanest outdoor pot I've harvested is in the Tom Hill soil. Adding a few bloom feeds in weeks 4,5,6 is optional. If I add bloom it's usually Jacks /gypsum/molasses mixes feeds.

another proven option and probably one of the most affordable.

Thank you Mr. Underhill, do you happen to remember the recipe for the Tom Hill mix, a lot of his posts seem to have disappeared from IC?

Rico Swazi · May 17, 2019

ThePhiloStoned said:
I'm on a hunt, a hunt for the simplest/least expensive super soil (or at least supersoil-ish/supersoil-esque) that can be made. I'd like to keep it as close to no-till LOS as possible (though I understand some concessions may need to be made).

I am working my way through the extensive stickies in this subforum, as I have time to, and have spent a fair amount of time in the past reading the LOS stuff on here...and I can say this, super soils are majorly f***ing complex, 20-50 amendments, expensive and/or obscure ingredients...safe to say your average first-timer, or even an experienced grower looking for to go organic might find it too daunting a task to tackle...and I agree, for now it is, until I'm more experienced, I suppose.

So, what I seek is a soil that is close to water-only, though I'm not opposed to top dressing & ACTs, I do want to avoid bottled nutes, organic or not (maybe something very weak from the Suite Leaf or Vegamatrix line if absolutely necessary), to keep the necessary amendments as generic & inexpensive as possible.

Is this something that you guys could help me with? I already have some Peat Moss, Coco, Perlite, Vermiculite, descent organic bagged soil, some microbial/mycorrhizal innoculant & very high quality composted Horse Manure, EWC, Chicken Manure & a giant pile of Mulched Woodchips (we do a lot of permaculture edible gardens here).

Thank you in advance.

Can't help you any more than the others have on a mix you would purchase but I can tell you permaculture rocks! I only wish more people would get into sustainable agriculture. I got my hands on three year old horse manure and it was loaded with worms. I can only imagine that 6 yr old pile of yours is as close to black gold as can get. The manure amended soil made for some incredible veggies and our favorite herb.

Strange to hear you want to spend money on things to make a mix when you have most everything you need (bolded) excepting a liming agent like gypsum or dolomite as suggested by others. I suggest putting the chicken manure on top of the wood chips and not in the soil itself.

Would love to see the forest garden, got pics?

mr underhill · May 17, 2019

ThePhiloStoned said:
Thank you Mr. Underhill, do you happen to remember the recipe for the Tom Hill mix, a lot of his posts seem to have disappeared from IC?

sure thing

6 large bags black gold potting soil
1 bag sunshine mix or promix hp
1 and a 1/3 bag chicken or sheep manure (tom used a specific chicken manure but I've been using sheep for years instead of chicken)
16 1/2 pounds of Bonemeal
1/3 of a large bag of perlite
5 pounds Granulated Gypsum
1 1/2 pounds dolomite

makes approx 110 gallons of soil.
mix, water and let cook 3 weeks prior to use.
it's pretty close to the original mix.
the gypsum/dolomite ratio can be played with depending on your water. My ratio is for well water but even it out for city service water.

I add myco powder to the hole at transplant and through the grow I do supplement with basic stuff like B1, molasses, hygrozyme and I use jacks nutes during the heavy feeding bloom phase. Finishing with gyspum and molasses feeds to water only for last week or so.

mr underhill · May 17, 2019

I can't edit my posts yet but I think the bonemeal is the steamed type (not prilled) and the gypsum is Diamond K brand

dank.frank · May 17, 2019

ThePhiloStoned said:
Knew you couldn't help but respond again.

Bro, Google that ish, like wtf, there is a Twitter account right now called NSPB: FLF that was started in 2012, talking about a Kickstarter & a website that was being started...why tf do you think I'm lying to you, g*****mn!!!

I created the NSPB mix. It was my venture. I never started a twitter account. I never started a website. I never started a kickstarter. I never discussed doing any of those things. So, then... therefore...

Sorry you got played. You really just need to go burn a few or something.

dank.Frank

ThePhiloStoned · May 18, 2019

Rico Swazi said:
Strange to hear you want to spend money on things to make a mix when you have most everything you need (bolded) excepting a liming agent like gypsum or dolomite as suggested by others. I suggest putting the chicken manure on top of the wood chips and not in the soil itself.

Would love to see the forest garden, got pics?

Well, I don't really want to spend money...I think I stated that in the OP but I could be mistaken, what I have is a really awesome 1:1:1 base mix, that I start almost all of my plants in around here, but we are a no-till setup in the garden so we're never really amending anything (so all of those crazy amendments in the super soil recipes are the stumbling block for me), we use Paul Gautschi's Back to Eden method, and some of the Lazy Gardener lady's stuff...the forest (current one) is just beginning but I will probably chronicle the whole thing on here...I love permaculture and am always trying to think of ways to apply it to the herb

Thank you for the compliments, I highly encourage all of us to grow our own food, it is so rewarding and addictive we kinda started a whole philosophy around it in college called Botanarchy.

ThePhiloStoned · May 18, 2019

mr underhill said:
sure thing

6 large bags black gold potting soil
1 bag sunshine mix or promix hp
1 and a 1/3 bag chicken or sheep manure (tom used a specific chicken manure but I've been using sheep for years instead of chicken)
16 1/2 pounds of Bonemeal
1/3 of a large bag of perlite
5 pounds Granulated Gypsum
1 1/2 pounds dolomite

makes approx 110 gallons of soil.
mix, water and let cook 3 weeks prior to use.
it's pretty close to the original mix.
the gypsum/dolomite ratio can be played with depending on your water. My ratio is for well water but even it out for city service water.

I add myco powder to the hole at transplant and through the grow I do supplement with basic stuff like B1, molasses, hygrozyme and I use jacks nutes during the heavy feeding bloom phase. Finishing with gyspum and molasses feeds to water only for last week or so.

Fantastic! That sounds absolutely perfect for my 100-gallon fabric pots.

ThePhiloStoned · May 18, 2019

dank.frank said:
I created the NSPB mix. It was my venture. I never started a twitter account. I never started a website. I never started a kickstarter. I never discussed doing any of those things. So, then... therefore...

Sorry you got played. You really just need to go burn a few or something.

dank.Frank

You right, and I just copped a sack to do just that...oh and I didn't get played, I just googled the words you typed and all of those things came up along with several ICmag threads with a user named NSPB appearing to be answering questions about it...so no one is playing me, perhaps you behind your back, but that's none of my business *sips espresso, hits blunt*

Microbeman · May 18, 2019

Why on earth do you think growing 'herb' is different than growing vegetables? Permaculture is just a catchy name for natural farming.

ThePhiloStoned · May 18, 2019

Microbeman said:
Why on earth do you think growing 'herb' is different than growing vegetables? Permaculture is just a catchy name for natural farming.

I don't, but I also can't grow outdoors here, and my indoor garden is going to obvious be somewhat different...I don't particularly have to amend the soil outside because it deep mulches & cooks for six months plus getting compost rained into it the whole time, but that requires zero of these SuperSoil amendments, if I start the plants not in the ground all they get is a base mix, and they go in the ground ASAP...not really an option here in prohibition land with herb.

Microbeman · May 18, 2019

I grew inside, the same as outside....no till. Amendments topdressed.

GOT_BUD? · May 18, 2019

ThePhiloStoned said:
I'm on a hunt, a hunt for the simplest/least expensive super soil (or at least supersoil-ish/supersoil-esque) that can be made. I'd like to keep it as close to no-till LOS as possible (though I understand some concessions may need to be made).

I am working my way through the extensive stickies in this subforum, as I have time to, and have spent a fair amount of time in the past reading the LOS stuff on here...and I can say this, super soils are majorly f***ing complex, 20-50 amendments, expensive and/or obscure ingredients...safe to say your average first-timer, or even an experienced grower looking for to go organic might find it too daunting a task to tackle...and I agree, for now it is, until I'm more experienced, I suppose.

So, what I seek is a soil that is close to water-only, though I'm not opposed to top dressing & ACTs, I do want to avoid bottled nutes, organic or not (maybe something very weak from the Suite Leaf or Vegamatrix line if absolutely necessary), to keep the necessary amendments as generic & inexpensive as possible.

Is this something that you guys could help me with? I already have some Peat Moss, Coco, Perlite, Vermiculite, descent organic bagged soil, some microbial/mycorrhizal innoculant & very high quality composted Horse Manure, EWC, Chicken Manure & a giant pile of Mulched Woodchips (we do a lot of permaculture edible gardens here).

Thank you in advance.

When I first started researching LOS soils last year, I too found the information pile daunting. Over the course of 6-8 months, I came up with a recipe that so far has worked pretty well. But I'm in my first crop right now, so take this with a grain of salt.

I ended up sourcing Black Gold Peat Moss by the bale at a local ACE hardware who also happened to carry a local worm farms castings and another place's organic compost. (2 bales of peat moss. 3 20 lb. bags of worm castings, and 1 30 lbs bags of compost.

That makes up the bulk of my mix. Add in a big bag of Perlite and 2 bags of hydrocorn for aeration. Added 2 KIS Organics Nutrient Packs (this is where all of my micro ingredients come from) mixed it together by hand and watered it. (This makes about 190 gallons of soil)

Let it sit for 4ish weeks, turning it over once a week to ensure a homogeneous mix and watered it to keep it somewhat moist.

Put it into my grow bags and let it sit another 4 weeks before putting my seedlings in (with a tablespoon of Williams Organic Wonder in the bottom of the hole).

Holy Cow did they take off.

I've grown in Hydro for years. All because of the explosive growth you get from hydro. It's also easier to dispose of waste water. No lugging of soil around or having to get rid of it after a grow, cleaner, etc.

My last go round didn't turn out so well, and I kept having problems which led me to researching soil grows. Which in turn led to LOS grows. Which in turn led to KNF and HuggleKulture. And it has snowballed from there. But I digress.

The growth I saw out of my soil mix easily rivaled any hydroponic grow I have ever done. And for the first time in my garden, the leaves are praying to the heavens. I have seen it numerous times in other peoples pictures, but have never experienced it my garden. Until this grow. And I am much excite.

It took me a long time to move to organic soil. But I am glad I did, and wish I had done it sooner.

ThePhiloStoned · May 18, 2019

Rico Swazi said:
I got my hands on three year old horse manure and it was loaded with worms. I can only imagine that 6 yr old pile of yours is as close to black gold as can get.

Yeah man, it pretty much is black gold humus at this point, I've been kind of blessed in the regenerative agriculture side of things around here, I source the horse manure from a lady that rescues horses & ponies that other people no longer want or are putting out to pasture, and I always pay her double what she asks for a truckload, just trying to help her strapped-for-cash operation keep going, I source the EWC from the crazy old hippie in the next big city over that makes weird art, sells it to tourists, and has been farming vermicompost with very specific worms in very specific European barley garden beds or something like that, anyway the organic snobs around here go crazy for it because it legit the highest quality purest EWC possible and the cheapest, I source my insect frass from an old UF botany professor that harvests cricket & lovebug frass out at his home near the swamp...everything else I find easily at the farm supply...so compost/base mix-wise my farm/garden is on fire, just wish I understood and had ample access to some these myriad amendments.

thailer · May 18, 2019

if it's all about cost to build the soil, the coot mix is the cheapest i've found. i only use half the application rate of the neem and use the full application on the rest of the ingredients. i've been using it for five years now and sometimes i hate it and sometimes i don't. i really think the success of the soil mix has a lot to do with sourcing quality compost and worm castings. thats the only changes i've made and it has been a pretty apparent difference.

i've bought the KIS soil bagged and its really a good recipe too. a little heavy on the nitrogen but all in all, its the best bagged stuff you can buy that i've tried. i could compare it to coot mix and say that you can get the same results, but maybe KIS is a little better. price difference wise though, not enough to justify.

ThePhiloStoned · May 18, 2019

GOT_BUD? said:
I ended up sourcing Black Gold Peat Moss by the bale at a local ACE hardware who also happened to carry a local worm farms castings and another place's organic compost. (2 bales of peat moss. 3 20 lb. bags of worm castings, and 1 30 lbs bags of compost.

That makes up the bulk of my mix. Add in a big bag of Perlite and 2 bags of hydrocorn for aeration. Added 2 KIS Organics Nutrient Packs (this is where all of my micro ingredients come from) mixed it together by hand and watered it. (This makes about 190 gallons of soil)

I like that mix, I think I could come up with a local version of that...how much do you think all of that ran you moneywise for the 190-gallons?

ThePhiloStoned · May 18, 2019

thailer said:
I've bought the KIS soil bagged and its really a good recipe too. a little heavy on the nitrogen but all in all, its the best bagged stuff you can buy that i've tried. i could compare it to coot mix and say that you can get the same results, but maybe KIS is a little better. price difference wise though, not enough to justify.

Seems like I could cut that KIS with some of this high-end 1:1:1 base mix I have in abundance around here to bring the cost & nitrogen levels down to something manageable...thank you guys, you've truly given me a bunch of ideas to test & compare results/cost (my equation for deciding the utility of gardening inputs).

ThePhiloStoned · May 18, 2019

thailer said:
if it's all about cost to build the soil, the coot mix is the cheapest i've found.

Well, I wouldn't say "all about the cost" but yes, the hunt here is which of these are absolutely the most cost effective & actually effective soil recipes to use, always considering end product and then having some consideration for ease of use...but if complex is the only problem I can deal with that at the right price.

GOT_BUD? · May 18, 2019

ThePhiloStoned said:
I like that mix, I think I could come up with a local version of that...how much do you think all of that ran you moneywise for the 190-gallons?

Peat Moss was $30 for 6 cu. ft. (2 3cu ft bags) which broke out to almost 12.

Worm castings were $13 each.

Bag of compost was $15 I want to say.

KIS Organics nutrient packs are $55 each shipped.

Perlite is $35-$50 for 4 cu. ft. depending on source.

The hydrocorn was $25 a bag.

So close to $300 including taxes/shipping. Keep in mind now all I have to do is give them water. And an occasional tea if I'm feeling saucy. (Got one brewing up right now as a matter of fact. Last one before harvest, which is still a few weeks away.)

I think I should only have to re amend every other grow with the KIS Organics packs. And one pack should be able to re amend all 8 of my 25 gallon pots. But I will know for certain once I have a soil test performed at the end of this grow.

Wanted to add that I bought all these things slowly. Peat Moss I bought at the end of last season and parked it in my garage until I had everything. Perlite and hydrocorn I bought when I had a couple extra bucks from over time. Same with the KIS packs. The only things I bought "fresh" were the earthworm castings and the compost, which I bought the night before I put it all together.

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