Fermenting, burying, traditional curing.

Carraxe said:

Hi

What is the difference in light? We have the ability to match both the power and the spectrum of the sun as it is anywhere in the planet. I don't say that we are in fact doing that, but it can be done.

Could you be more precise?

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I dont know what the difference is ,,
just that there is one ,
..
folks wouldnt still be raving about the thai and colombian otherwise would they ,
if something had already equaled or surpassed it ..

many tried growing seeds from those types indoors ,
with often poor results ,
that also took forever ,
and bore no resemblance to the herb they had gotten the seed from ...

i dont study lighting ,
im just a gardener that lives in the tropics ...

I'm sorry but I need something else than believes.

Cheers

Maybe a visit to a tropical location where they grow good herb ?
All anyone can do on here is share experiences ,
thats all i can do im afraid ...
You need to search for the answer further than the internet ...

Carraxe said:

I'm sorry but I need something else than believes.

Cheers

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Science is a beleif...And as useful as it is, has been wrong on so many levels in the past it must change its view's every few years...
The view point of reductionist science is a heavily left brained and mechanical one, that, when quantifying nature, often misses the wholistic synergy within nature...
IE Just because something acts a certain way in a lab does not mean it will act that way when in its element, in nature.

Science tells us infant formula is as good as mothers milk because the "nutrient profile matches", however it is only due to doctors speaking up about the increase in illness in formula fed babies that we know this is not true.

It wasn't so long ago we were all being told that weed got us high because it contained a drug called THC...Only more recently has their been mention of the synergy between cannabinoids, terpenes, and human bio chemistry...

Rinse said:

Science is a beleif...And as useful as it is, has been wrong on so many levels in the past it must change its view's every few years...
The view point of reductionist science is a heavily left brained and mechanical one, that, when quantifying nature, often misses the wholistic synergy within nature...
IE Just because something acts a certain way in a lab does not mean it will act that way when in its element, in nature.

Science tells us infant formula is as good as mothers milk because the "nutrient profile matches", however it is only due to doctors speaking up about the increase in illness in formula fed babies that we know this is not true.

It wasn't so long ago we were all being told that weed got us high because it contained a drug called THC...Only more recently has their been mention of the synergy between cannabinoids, terpenes, and human bio chemistry...

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+1 great post filled with wisdom

Rinse said:

Science is a beleif...And as useful as it is, has been wrong on so many levels in the past it must change its view's every few years...
The view point of reductionist science is a heavily left brained and mechanical one, that, when quantifying nature, often misses the wholistic synergy within nature...
IE Just because something acts a certain way in a lab does not mean it will act that way when in its element, in nature.

Science tells us infant formula is as good as mothers milk because the "nutrient profile matches", however it is only due to doctors speaking up about the increase in illness in formula fed babies that we know this is not true.

It wasn't so long ago we were all being told that weed got us high because it contained a drug called THC...Only more recently has their been mention of the synergy between cannabinoids, terpenes, and human bio chemistry...

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What's your point?

Do you really believe weed from the tropics is better?

Bye

Carraxe said:

What's your point?

Do you really believe weed from the tropics is better?

Bye

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I think weed that has adapted to the tropics is best grown there,
tropical sativa grows best in the tropics ..

Rinse said:

Science is a beleif...And as useful as it is, has been wrong on so many levels in the past it must change its view's every few years...

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Science is not a belief system. It is something we use to explain things in ways we can reproduce. Sometimes we get it wrong and discover that the formula was wrong after all. Instead of holding on to the old belief we investigate the issue and try to come up with a better explanation of how things work.

Rinse said:

Science tells us infant formula is as good as mothers milk because the "nutrient profile matches", however it is only due to doctors speaking up about the increase in illness in formula fed babies that we know this is not true.

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No! Corporations sponsoring a project tagged as a "science project" make these claims because they only care about their profits. This is happening all over the place but the news tends to only cover the discoveries these "science projects" make and not when true scientist debunk those studies.

I also thought there was no point in arguing after I read that anti-science manifesto
Cheers

supermanlives said:

interesting.

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Ditto.

Carraxe said:

I'm trying to get something similar. I found the barrel / soil method quite messy, so I just developed a similar one, learning from the tobacco manufacturers videos on the youtube.

I moisturized some amount (about 50g) of dried sativa buds. I put them inside a closed plastic bag, wrapped the bag inside a black plastic cloth and set the plastic bag inside a mason jar over a electrical heater. This heater works all day at its minimum, so I've got about 40ºC inside the plastic bag.

I plan to open weekly to ventilate and check if it needs more water. In a month I expect to compare with normally cured weed, I've some left from the same one.


Cheers

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Man ! I'm really interested to find a fermenting method ! I have not still find a good method to use.. If think yours shuld be the best one ! I'd like to try yours !! can you describe me your process from harvesting to finish ? You can make me very happy =)

Peace

Bump.

sirius02 said:

Man ! I'm really interested to find a fermenting method ! I have not still find a good method to use.. If think yours shuld be the best one ! I'd like to try yours !! can you describe me your process from harvesting to finish ? You can make me very happy =)

Peace

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Hi
Best way I've found, you use drying weed and no heat at all.

You harvest normally and hang the plants to dry. After 4-5 days of drying at 60-70% RH or 3-4 at 50% RH you take the stems and leaves out and press all the weed into any container that allows you to apply pressure.

I use a mason jar with a piece of wood and the leg of the bed to do the pressing. After that you just close the jar, put it in a dark and fresh place and wait for some days.

3 days is the minimum. I've done up to 2 weeks and I got really black strong shit. 3 days appears to be a little incomplete, but you can still have some of the original green weed smell.

It is nice to use mason jars because you can see if the mould is growing. It shouldn't.

After some days, you take it out and separe and extend the buds for a proper airing and drying. After some few days of drying it should be ready.

The pressure breaks the plant's cells and mixes all plant fluids with the smashed trichomes. It should help to avoid mould growing.

If you try this, don't use all you weed for the first run
Good luck.

As someone who has smoked an extensive amount of traditionally cured marijuana, from sun-cured to buried, cobs and bricks, straight from the metaphorical horse's traditional growing regions, I have to say that I feel that it does nothing to improve flavour or potency, sure chlorophyll breaks down, but the earthy, musky taste that is imparted by such a process is unpleasant and in my opinion undesirable (this is also largely due to personal taste, I prefer fruity/sour terpenes, which don't seem to survive this process very well).
These methods are remnants from before we knew better, apply the scientific principles we have learned over the years and you end up with a method similar to the "Perfect cure everytime" thread, not a backwards-ass method based on a process that involves prolonged burying.
That said, you may find your tastes lead you in the opposite direction, if you enjoy, smooth, earthy herb this method might be for you..

I still think we can mimic these conditions indoors. If you think about some environment/climate related feature we can't reproduce indoors please let me know. For example, there isn't scientific evidence yet on UV effects on plants, but you can install UV lamps indoors and mimic the tropic's radiation.

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Why does it have to be light related? If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that areas that have had marijuana grown in them for centuries will have developed/attracted specific mycorrhizal funghi and beneficial bacteria that make the soil alive. A complex network of hyphal strands and miniature creatures that caters to different plants individual needs makes the world of difference, and it's only recently that the marijuana growing community has truly cottoned on to this fact.
I hypothesize that in the next few years, with modern lighting technology, living soil and targeted use of specific microorganisms the indoor farmer will be able to achieve results akin to the perfection that nature can during a good season under the sun.

All the best,
Milde

MildeStoner said:

As someone who has smoked an extensive amount of traditionally cured marijuana, from sun-cured to buried, cobs and bricks, straight from the metaphorical horses traditional growing regions, I have to say that I feel that it does nothing to improve flavour or potency, sure chlorophyll breaks down, but the earthy, musky taste that is imparted by such a process is unpleasant and in my opinion undesirable (this is also largely due to personal taste, I prefer fruity/sour terpenes, which don't seem to survive this process very well).
These methods are remnants from before we knew better, apply the scientific principles we have learned over the years and you end up with a method similar to the "Perfect cure everytime" thread, not a backwards-ass method based on a process that involves prolonged burying.
That said, you may find your tastes lead you in the opposite direction, if you enjoy, smooth, earthy herb this method might be for you..

Why does it have to be light related? If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that areas that have had marijuana grown in them for centuries will have developed/attracted specific mycorrhizal funghi and beneficial bacteria that make the soil alive. A complex network of hyphal strands and miniature creatures that caters to different plants individual needs makes the world of difference, and it's only recently that the marijuana growing community has truly cottoned on to this fact.
I hypothesize that in the next few years, with modern lighting technology, living soil and targeted use of specific microorganisms the indoor farmer will be able to achieve results akin to the perfection that nature can during a good season under the sun.

All the best,
Milde

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Thanks! that's an interesting though

Yeah there are many different commercially available beneficial bacteria that serve a similar purpose, what I'd like to see is which are most common in the worlds most renowned growing regions, along with their fungal and arthropod counterparts, then see what mimicking that in an organic soil mix indoors under full spectrum lighting will result in..

Its been a few years since I visited these forums so its a nice surprise to find this thread! For a while I didn't know if there was anyone else out there trying real curing/fermenting methods on homegrown plants, so I am happy to be in good company here. This topic seems to be largely ignored by most of the growing community which I find surprising considering how substantial its effects are on the final product. I would love to see a legitimate study on the subject because there are so few facts out there. The idea that curing or fermenting can affect the potency is certainly up for debate, but its affect on the appearance/aroma/flavour and quality of smoke are obvious (even if they are not appealing to everyone). I am also curious if there are any differences in the chemical makeup of the smoke between cured and uncured bud.

There is somewhat of an ignorance in the North American/European grow scene of both the ancient history and the worldwide presence of cannabis cultivation. Innovations like hybrid strains, HID indoor lighting and hydroponics seem to lead some to think that cannabis growing was invented in California. It is certainly worth at least considering the idea that we can learn a thing or two from history and the rest of the world.

For any of you that haven't read Mel Franks 'Marijuana Growers Guide' you should definitely check out the chapter 'After the Harvest' where he discusses both curing and fermenting. It teaches 4 different types of curing: air, flue, sun, and water. It also teaches 2 different methods of fermentation: self-generating and forced.


It's important to understand the difference between curing and fermentation as they are not the same thing. Curing happens only when the plant is still alive; after harvest but before it's fully dried out. It can more accurately be called oxidation. Fermentation, on the other hand, occurs after the plant has been dried out. It is a bacterial process that actually begins to break down the plant.

While both processes can turn green buds into brown or even black, they go about it in different ways and have different effects on the final product. Also, its not like it is one or the other as buds can be both oxidized and fermented at the same time (eg. sweat curing).

I learned a lot of information by reading about tobacco and tea processing. Both plants (tobacco and tea) start out green just like our favourite herb, but are most often oxidized or/and fermented to a certain degree before being consumed. The tea industry is particularly interesting as there are so many different varieties that all come from the same thing. Green tea is basically unoxidized, oolong is partially oxidized and black tea is more fully oxidized. Then there's tea like Chinese pu-erh which is both oxidized and then later fermented. In the tobacco industry there are also various processing methods for both oxidizing (which they call curing) and fermenting. The curing methods, in particular, result in very different final product. The flue-cure is the most common method for cigarette tobacco in North America, whereas fire-curing is the method used for pipe and chewing tobacco . After being cured, tobacco is then fermented before it can be smoked.

Fermenting breaks down terpenes imho and is therefore counterproductive

Hmmm, well I too have grown nostalgic for the wonderful taste of the seventies, particularly of Punta Roha, which was without a doubt the best tasting and one of the best highs I have ever had, but it was the taste that really set it apart, and the fact that a high lasted all day without the need for retitrating. However I think you guys are laboring under a delusion if you think that anything you do after harvest can increase the potency of a bud. You can concentrate it more, for sure, you can make it taste better, true, but with the exception of the isomerization of low quality oil, there is nothing you can do to it that makes it a more potent or desireable high. And everything you do will degrade it, some things more, some less. Even oil and butter and all that jazz really degrades the material if it is any good to begin with. In fact even handling it and crushing the buds just a little bit degrades the final product. Yet there is that immature green taste behind even the most postent buds that have the typical slow dry and nothing else. Even trimming a bud down to the nugs degrades the potency of a bud, whereas if the little trim leaves right next to the bud were left on, it protects the stalks on the bud itself. This is why the most potent stuff is just loose buds that have been dried and stored in a rigid vacuum container like a mason jar, and also will never taste as good as the ole Punta Roja from the seventies. It was definately the cure that gave that taste. But we are in a different age now. The age of vaporization, were it is not necessary to cure to have a good taste, it is only necessary to not burn it. Because of vaporization, you can load up your plants with nutes right up to harvest and not really worry about clearing it, as long as you vaporize it. This will allow you to feed the plants at the critical point instead of starving them and still get a fine taste, as long as you vaporize, you are not getting any of the nitrogen harshness, and the people who judge bud quality by how they burn and the color of the ash are using a standard that is meaningless in their judgement, as long as you vaporize. I know most commercial vaporizers truely suck, my suggestion is to go to your local glassblower and have him make you a big bowel that you can fit the head of a good heatgun into and use that with your bong and Steinel heatgun, which will give you total control over air flow and temp, and you will get huge hits if you want them.