Thirsty or something else? HELP!

Traceofvenom · Sep 27, 2018

I am hoping these girls are just thirsty. I just installed my 1000w cooltube last night. I have it about 21" to 25" from the canopy depending on which plant but that is the range. The temps in the tent are in the mid to upper 70s. I am using 5 gal smart pots and they seemed a bit light so I phed using plain tap no nutrients and I checked each plants ph runoff and they all are right around 6.1-6.2. Since they all exhibited the same look overnight I am hoping as I said they only need water. When I do water them it seems like the water instantly starts running out the bottom. Could it be that my medium is too aerated and that the pots are not retaining enough moisture. I do the lift test and they are always a bit heavier after the waterings but perhaps I need to water them even more. I just am being cautious and don't want to over saturate them. (advice please) My medium is:

Soil (Base Mix)
1.5 cubic ft of FoxFarm Ocean Forest
1 cubit feet of FoxFarm Light Warrior
1 cubic feet of Earth worm castings
1/3 cubit feet of Sphagnum Peet Moss

The soil base is very light and airy

I amended the soil with:
2 cups Botanicare Pure organic plant food (bloom)
1/2 cup Gypsum

Also, could it be these are becoming root bound? They are all about 53 days since they popped the surface. I have read that people do complete grows in pots smaller than 5 gallon. Man I would like some input on these points and an over all guess what you all think might be going on here based off the photo.

As always your input, advice and suggestions are much appreciated!

Dr.NO · Sep 28, 2018

I'm doing a similar grow using a mix of four FoxFarm products. At one point my plants also experienced drooping tops and leaves. They were in six inch plastic containers, but are now in five gallon fabric containers.

I believe my issue was caused by a combination of overwatering, bound roots and low pH.

I'm not positive what's going on with your plants but a few things stick out to me.

Your pH is low for soil. You want the runoff to be closer to 6.5-6.8. Your amended soil is going to be pretty acidic already so watering with plain water at 7 pH should give you a better runoff.

At 53 days you're almost two months in. That's a good amount of time to be in one pot even if it's five gallons. Maybe the roots are bound; but I cannot be sure since my plants are not that far along in the fabric containers and I'm not sure how plants behave once they're fully grown into fabric containers. If I had been you I probably would have begun flowering after six weeks.

The soil could be resisting the water leaving some parts dry. Try adding a few drops of biodegradable liquid dish soap to your water to help it better penetrate the soil.

Hope that helps. Your plants look quite healthy other than the drooping.

Traceofvenom · Sep 28, 2018

Dr.NO said:
Hope that helps. Your plants look quite healthy other than the drooping.

I appreciate the feedback. I too would like to get some intel on the roots being bound. I forgot to mention they were in solo cups for 25 days. So I am hoping that being root bound isn't the case.

As far as Ph maximum yield quotes this for cannabis in soil

"Cannabis plants prefer a slightly acidic environment for its roots. Growers using soil as their medium should adjust their pH to a range of 6 to 6.8."

So if Cannabis prefers a slight acidic ph I think I am ok there. I am running 18/6 the lights are fixing to come on so hopefully they will look better when I check them out here in a little bit.

Any others care to chime in with their feedback that would be awesome!

Thanks

Traceofvenom · Sep 28, 2018

After the lights came on..

After the lights came on..

Well, the lights came on and 4 of the ladies look somewhat better but still a bit droopy. This bitch here doesn't look happy at all. Somebody please chime in with your thoughts. I recently started feeding them Earth Juice certified OMRI 100% organic. I have fed a little less than the recommended feed chart. Now I am wondering if they don't like the nutes being they all started exhibiting this at the same time. So I think it wasn't an under watered situation because I would think that 8 hours after I watered them this morning I would see signs of significant improvement but that isn't the case. So it has to be either they are root bound (or getting close) or they are not liking the Earth Juice. Even though the ph is running on the low side of the optimal range I wouldn't think it's a ph issue but I am no pro so it possibly may be a ph issue. Temps are running 76 degrees humidity is 67% right now. Humidity might be suspect at 67%.

Anyone??

Vanilla Phoenix · Sep 28, 2018

IMO, if the only variable you changed was the light.....it’s most likely the light. What were they under before the 1000w?

Traceofvenom · Sep 28, 2018

Vanilla Phoenix said:
IMO, if the only variable you changed was the light.....it’s most likely the light. What were they under before the 1000w?

400W MH

Vanilla Phoenix · Sep 28, 2018

I would raise the light up some. Maybe 36 inches above the tops for now. Even if the 1000w intensity isn’t the cause of the problem, raising the lamp when plants are stressed is a good idea anyway. I’m betting the plants respond positively after you raise it though.

Traceofvenom · Sep 28, 2018

Vanilla Phoenix said:
I would raise the light up some. Maybe 36 inches above the tops for now. Even if the 1000w intensity isn’t the cause of the problem, raising the lamp when plants are stressed is a good idea anyway. I’m betting the plants respond positively after you raise it though.

Man, I will try it see what happens. I have never heard negative things about upping wattage only positive. How long would you think if that is indeed a remedy would it take to notice change? If it does perk them up how much and when would you recommend lowering the light?

Thanks

Traceofvenom · Sep 28, 2018

Raising the lights

Raising the lights

Ok, so it has been several hours since I raised the lights and they are definitely looking better. Note to self.... Thanks for the suggestion VP... I think the combination of the new 1000w and low on water was the culprit. Still would like to see all the leaves just reaching towards the light. You know that look where you just know they are healthy and getting fed and just over all happy. Who knows maybe in the morning they will be or in a day or so. It's a learning process. I was wondering for all of you that have had a dimmable ballast. I was reading some thread where this guy was starting off his daily light regiment @ 400w then after about 4 hours he switched it to 600w then 3 hours later to 1000k to mimic nature. Sort of makes sense but way to high maintenance unless you don't have a life. Don't get me wrong I love spending time with the ladies but damn son! It does bring up a question. My 1000w is dimmable. Can you switch say from 1000w to 600w while the light is on or do you have to power it down put the dial on 60% then crank it back up?

Vanilla Phoenix · Sep 28, 2018

Glad it seemed to have helped. :good:

Anytime you go up in wattage, you usually wanna start the lamp a little farther away and after a couple days, start lowering it an inch or two a day until you get to where you want it.

Traceofvenom · Oct 1, 2018

Looking much better.

Looking much better.

Well, here they are the night before I flip to 12/12. I dialed the ballast down to 600w. There seems to be varying opinions on 1000w or 600w in a 4X4 tent. What do you all think?

Patmando22 · Oct 1, 2018

1000 in a 4x4 is fine as long as you can keep the environment in its optimal conditions for the plant. Not to hot not to dry or to humid and not to close to the girls.

Traceofvenom · Oct 1, 2018

Patmando22 said:
1000 in a 4x4 is fine as long as you can keep the environment in its optimal conditions for the plant. Not to hot not to dry or to humid and not to close to the girls.

Well, I have done the math and researched the optimal watts per square foot. The sweet spot seems to be 65w. In my specific example I am going to be growing 4 plants. I have 5 but one looks like it's gonna be a male. Chance I took on a rogue seed from some dank shit I got and was lucky enough to find a seed. I will probably take a clone and breed it down the road. So back to the watts per square feet. I am only concerned with the actual canopy which isn't going to take up the whole 4x4 footprint. It is looking like it will be more like a 3X3 canopy so at 9 square feet X desired watts @ 65w that gives me 585 watts so a 600 watt light is sufficient. Depending on who you talk to, anything over a certain wattage per square feet your just wasting light and electricity. Their environment is excellent. Running temps are @ 78 degrees humidity is 60% which I know is high right now but we are moving into the fall/winter season so I am betting that will go down naturally. If not I will get a dehumidifier. I don't understand why people are so caught up in getting the light as close to the plants as they can. I have a Lux meter and as long as the Lux is no greater than 75000 Lux during any stage of growth your good.

Here is a link on Lux if your interested https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-how-to-use-a-lux-meter-to-increase-your-cannabis-yields-n977

Currently I have my light positioned to where it is giving the top of the canopy between 45000 and 50000 Lux with the 45000 being on the perimeters. For the flower cycle the optimal range is between 45000-60000 Lux. It's a pretty cool tool.

I would say that the light is about 18" to 21" above the canopy. Once the flowers start forming I will probably bump up the ballast to 1000w to give them that extra light intensity and meter the light for optimal light distance and canopy coverage.

Buds Buddy · Oct 6, 2018

1 - 600 watt light is perfect for a 4' x 4' tent. 1000 Watts is too much. However, some LED Spot Lights (around 25 watts each) for side lighting would be beneficial. A 5 gallon cloth pot will use close to a gallon of water every 3 days. Why did you turn the power down for Flower ? I Veg at 600 watt (MH) & LED side lighting & when I switch to HPS Bulb I turn the power up to 1000 watt. I'm using a 4' x 8' x 7' tent & Fox Farms soil in 5 gallon bags also & everything is going just fine. I do 8 plants at a time in this size tent. If you're using Fox Farms soil I wouldn't use any Nutes for at least 4 weeks as it has all you need in it & if you add more .... you are asking for problems (Nute Burn & N toxicity). I had to learn that the hard way.

Traceofvenom · Oct 6, 2018

Buds Buddy said:
Why did you turn the power down for Flower ?

As I stated the light intensity is overkill thus wasting light and electricity for the size tent I have. Your tent is more square footage than mine. I posted a link in my previous post. Please take a look. I will kick on the 1000w light probably 2 to 3 weeks pre harvest..

Traceofvenom · Oct 7, 2018

Day 6 Flower

Day 6 Flower

Day 6 Flower...

rocker · Oct 7, 2018

Looking good, my 6 girls are at day 7, I’ll update my pics soon but we have guest coming today.
I’ll be pulling up my chair to watch your finish.
My 6 Girls - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=356453

Traceofvenom · Oct 7, 2018

rocker said:
Looking good, my 6 girls are at day 7, I’ll update my pics soon but we have guest coming today.
I’ll be pulling up my chair to watch your finish.
My 6 Girls - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=356453

Hey Rocker thanks for chiming in. I will definitely be following your grow as well since we are both basically on the same timeline. I don't know if you read through all my post but I started all mine in solo cups and let the roots get really established probably like 30 or so days and then transferred them to 5 gallon smart pots and they are kicking ass!
I have 3 strains too Night Queen, White Gold and an unknown from a seed I found in a bag of some really dank smelly as fuck bud!! However, it looks like it's going to be a male. All the others were feminized seeds and were all showing pre flower pistols before the flip. If the unknown is indeed a male I will probably take a cutting for the pollen and breed it down the road because it is really really really good smoke! Anyway, they just legalized medical here where I live so I can legally grow 6 plants which is nice! I just ordered White Widow Feminized beans and already received them. I have always wanted to grow WW. It's very forgiving and easy to grow and a staple in the Cannabis industry. Can't go wrong as far as quality.. I will be watching your grow. Lets stay in touch!

Peace Brother!

rocker · Oct 8, 2018

Traceofvenom - White widow is a nice strain, I had a little from a friend's grow, back east this summer, and it was really nice, had me thinking that I might want to grow some too. I ordered some seeds from Ace, all Sativa's but I may try to grow a couple Indica seeds I have in my collection, Bubblicious and Northern Lights from Nirvana, and some Original Glue, I got from some buds I bought at a local dispensary. Changing laws is a wonderful thing, I was in Colorado when they first went Medical, I got my license and that was a life changer, now both my wife and I have them so I am thinking of building a veg room, might even try to do a mother or two if I get adventurous, but I travel for work and can be gone long stretches with no one home, so that is a concern. But I can start vegging at least while flowering and have a second crop right on the heels of the first.

I did catch you have started in solo cups and graduated up, that is definitely what Ill do next time, and I don't think I need as big of cloth pots either, so learning tricks for next go around all ready :biggrin:

I also raised my lights a little too, I have a600W LED and it was 12-14 from them, depending on the plant, I noticed some ill formed leafs and from your experience thought that couldn't hurt, I might get more stretch, but I will deal with it as needed with LST.

Anyway, good luck moving forward and looking forward to the show.

Ganoderma · Oct 9, 2018

Dr.NO said:
I'm doing a similar grow using a mix of four FoxFarm products. At one point my plants also experienced drooping tops and leaves. They were in six inch plastic containers, but are now in five gallon fabric containers.

I believe my issue was caused by a combination of overwatering, bound roots and low pH.

I'm not positive what's going on with your plants but a few things stick out to me.

Your pH is low for soil. You want the runoff to be closer to 6.5-6.8. Your amended soil is going to be pretty acidic already so watering with plain water at 7 pH should give you a better runoff.

Yes I agree! The PH is to low for soil.

That is what is causing your plants to look like that. Raise your PH and that should solve your issues.

Thirsty or something else? HELP!

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