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Old 09-12-2018, 05:16 AM #11
BubbaBear
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@ Iffy, I believe salicylic acid gives you a immediate SAR response and chitosan takes a few days so they should work perfectly together for a time released SAR response.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:16 AM #12
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I talked with the Oregon Department of Agriculture. As some have said, Salicylic acid is considered a PGR (plant growth regulator) which often falls under pesticides. However, it's not banned in Oregon due to being "shady" or a "harmful" pesticide. The ban is due to improper labeling. All AN and these other companies have to do to get it back on the shelf is fix the labeling. This happens often in Oregon. Bocare had some issue and they added a sticker to fix the labeling problem. It's very common. The guy ODA went on to say it's an SAR that is supposed to trick the plant into creating more resin.
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:00 PM #13
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I wonder if this the end of companies being able to use off label proprietary ingredients? It's great that states are forcing companies to be more upfront about what they're putting in there products. It is very common for companies to have off label proprietary ingredients. Hopefully more states will continue to test for off label ingredients and make more companies be more upfront about what there putting in there products and make mystery ingredient bottles of snake oil a thing of the past. I'm glad to know theres no negative impact on having salicylic acid in your plants.
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:07 PM #14
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So Bubba...slightly off-topic..but..are all these new bacterial inoculants safe also?..eg 10Million Colony Forming Units of a "beneficial" to aid in MJ root uptake and health?..
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Old 10-21-2018, 04:37 PM #15
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Yes as far as I know they are safe, but some microbe products like Mammoth P has a Alfalfa extract in it which essentially means it has Triacontanol in it so the yield increase people see from using it may not be from the actual microbes in it.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:18 PM #16
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Salicylic acid is not the same thing as aspirin. The two medicines are related, and have similar-sounding chemical names. Aspirin is also known as acetylsalicylic acid, which is created by a chemical reaction between salicylic acid and acetic acid. You can use aspirin but it's not ideal especially during flower the smell of the aspirin seems to make it's way into the plant. Salicylic acid can easily be found in it's pure form for cheap.

Is there a functional difference? I add 1 uncoated 325mg aspirin per gallon of water once every week or two, works great. Would I get better results w/ pure salicylic acid?
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:30 AM #17
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I talked with the Oregon Department of Agriculture. As some have said, Salicylic acid is considered a PGR (plant growth regulator) which often falls under pesticides. However, it's not banned in Oregon due to being "shady" or a "harmful" pesticide. The ban is due to improper labeling. All AN and these other companies have to do to get it back on the shelf is fix the labeling. This happens often in Oregon. Bocare had some issue and they added a sticker to fix the labeling problem. It's very common. The guy ODA went on to say it's an SAR that is supposed to trick the plant into creating more resin.

Yep, it's really a compliance issue that realistically comes from the government departments wanting money/tax and goes right up to the EPA where because salycilic acid induces SAR it has pesticide properties. Therefore, for it to be compliant in any product that product must be registered with the EPA at hideously prohibitive cost. I'd note some here are talking about triacontanol - there's a classic example of government extortion because any product with triacontanol in it also must be registered with the EPA even though triacontanol poses no toxicity issues but is classed as a PGR (plant growth regulator) because it increases the rate of photosynthesis in plants and is shown to alter their natural growth behaviours. So use triacontanol in a product and you're up for 50K or more in EPA registration costs or you add it and hope that compliance bodies don't find it in your product.
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Old 10-22-2018, 04:55 AM #18
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Is there a functional difference? I add 1 uncoated 325mg aspirin per gallon of water once every week or two, works great. Would I get better results w/ pure salicylic acid?
I dont believe theres much of a functional difference your still getting the salicylic acid just in a much less of a pure form with some acetic acid and whatever else is in the aspirin along for the ride. I've added aspirin root drench plenty of times with great results but aspirin can be a bit harsh as a foliar feed. Aloe vera also works great and has a lot of other beneficial compounds I'm just not sure of its exact salicylic acid content.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:17 AM #19
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@ BongFu that's sad to hear. Our greedy government has made it near impossible to be a mom n pop grower with all the permit and compliance costs and based on what your saying It sounds like they've done the same thing to the nutrient industry. What happens if you try to sell a unregistered product on ebay or etsy? I assume the government would crush you with fines?
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:23 AM #20
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@ BongFu that's sad to hear. Our greedy government has made it near impossible to be a mom n pop grower with all the permit and compliance costs and based on what your saying It sounds like they've done the same thing to the nutrient industry. What happens if you try to sell a unregistered product on ebay or etsy? I assume the government would crush you with fines?



Its really the price of doing business legally in the US. The problem is that the med game is a niche industry (still) and there are lots of manufacturers competing for the dollars. As a result hiring lawyers to apply for EPA registration and then the registration cost itself is grossly exorbitant (in excess of 100K in many/most cases unless you are able to ride off the back of an existing registration) so manufacturers need to chance their luck and not register products. If they get busted they get fined a thousand or so so its a hell of a lot cheaper than registering with the EPA. So, for example, all the Rhizo type products contain synthetic auxins but these can be masked by kelp which has naturally occurring auxins in it. When they test for compliance lo and behold there's them auxins only did they come from the kelp or were they added? End result is the lab gets what's called a false positive where they may suspect but they can't prove.



Oh and on your point of aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid)and SA being about the same thing. Correct. Although aspirin is only 76.6% SA so the conversion factor is divide by 0.766 to establish SA in aspirin - although you also need the purity of the aspirin to get things dialed in.
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