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Virus, disease, pests, or genetics?

KokoKush

Member
Grow details. Indoor, 600 watt MH (25k Lux at plant tops) 18hrs on 6 hours off, 40-55 Rh, 67-81 F, Happy Frog potting soil 8 inch pots, filtered tap water (unknown ppm/ph) plants have been fed once with 3-0.6-0.6 1oz/gallon as a foliar spray and watered. Seeds were found sparingly in dispensary bud sold as Grapefruit OG. Seeds were soaked in water for 24hrs then placed into wet paper towel until germination. 5 out of 6 seeds germinated. Immediately after germination Grapefruit OG #4 showed signs of chlorophyll bleaching, twisting, leaf deformations, not to mention the main stalk growing sideways. Some of the other Grapefruits show minor mottling of the leaves, spots where the chloroplasts aren't functioning properly. Its growth is on par with its siblings. I've read all 80 pages of the Tobacco Mosiac Virus thread hoping to find a answer or a course of action. I have been giving the plants 325mg/Gallon aspirin 2x a week in case of virus or disease. I looked for bugs with a 60x scope and didn't find anything. Just incase I mixed up a slurry of diatomaceous earth and water and sprayed all the leaves (white spots on the leaves are DE not mites). I also top dusted soil with diatomaceous earth. Any ideas on the cause of the deformations? Should I cull the plant or continue with vegetation? The worst thing for me is if it's a virus. I have already seen some color deformation on some non-related plants in the same room but nothing like #4 is displaying. I was planning on breeding its siblings if I can find a keeper. The same pictures can be viewed under my album Grapefruit OG. Thanks for any help, Koko.
 
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KokoKush

Member
I forgot to add that I am leaning towards the cause being genetic variegation, but I would like any second opinions. If it is genetic variegation does anyone have experience with breeding variegated plants?
 

troutman

Seed Whore
Do rinse that DE off the leaves soon before it affects the plants.

I think a soil application would have been enough. :tiphat:

Sometimes plants outgrow defected leaves so don't give up just yet.
 

popta

Member
I agree with troutman, get them cleaned off then don't spray anything on them anymore. Not even water, just to rule sprays out of the question. It's definitely not mites anyways so no need for that.

Looks mostly like a nutrient deficiency, possibly caused by incorrect ph. Soil mixes do take a couple weeks after the first watering to settle to their intended ph so it may get better on it's own over time. If you don't have the tools to check what ph/ppm is going in or coming out then there's not a whole lot you can do but wash the plants, flush the soil, and wait.

Picture 3 shows really uneven soil moisture. That might be from foliar spray dripping down but if that's actually from watering then that's not right. When you water you want to FULLY water. Get every bit of soil not just wet but beyond wet so that water flows through all of it it and runs out the bottom of the container. It takes a lot of water. And you want to set things up to carry the runoff away, not just force it back into the container. Carrying them to the sink for watering is one way to do it.
 
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KokoKush

Member
Thanks for the replies. I will get the plants washed off tonight. Is the reasoning behind removing the DE from the leaves clogging the stomatas? I'll order a Ppm meter and Ph tonight. Popta yes I believe the moisture you see is from spraying. When I water I water until completely saturated. I stop as soon as I see runoff. I have a feel for how heavy each container is when full. I don't normally water to the point where there is such substantial runoff. I have 10 plants in the same soil which aren't displaying symptoms, which caused me to think it wasn't the nutrients/Ph. Could this plant be more sensitive to Ph/nutrients? I will flush the next few waterings. Carrying them to the sink is what I'll do haha. Pictures attached are of #4's siblings, same age, same everything.
 
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KokoKush

Member
Update. Ph was in range and only 80ppm on the tap water. The plant is continuing its swirly, mottled, distorted growth pattern. I have come the conclusion it is genetic based. Some leaves grow small misformed fingers while others will grow half of the finger but not the other. For example each side of the side shoots grows vigorously while the other side is stunted and may not grow at all. This pattern continues throughout the plant. Because of this pattern the skid shoots have over taken the main stem in terms of growth. Side branches are growing faster and higher than the main stem, making this a very interesting plant to watch grow.
 
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You'll find deformities in a lot of the modern types and on a lesser degree even in landraces. Typically near maturity most will revert to normal growth unless truly a mutation.
 

KokoKush

Member
Interesting peacepipe, I have heard that the OG line has been known to carry unique mutations such as variegation. I'll be hoping it's a girl so I can breed this with a Sweet Pink Male and see if the deformities are carried to the next generation.
 

TanzanianMagic

Well-known member
Veteran
Update. Ph was in range and only 80ppm on the tap water. The plant is continuing its swirly, mottled, distorted growth pattern. I have come the conclusion it is genetic based. Some leaves grow small misformed fingers while others will grow half of the finger but not the other. For example each side of the side shoots grows vigorously while the other side is stunted and may not grow at all. This pattern continues throughout the plant. Because of this pattern the skid shoots have over taken the main stem in terms of growth. Side branches are growing faster and higher than the main stem, making this a very interesting plant to watch grow.
I agree with Popta.

Also,

Ph was in range and only 80ppm on the tap water.
- The pH looks low and should be about 7.0 or higher.

- 80 ppm is extremely low, you may have soft water that will need some amendments.

- The soil would probably OK if a tablespoon of magnesium lime was added per gallon of soil.

- Nutrients - too much nitrogen

Bloom nutrients with higher P and lower N levels, plus epsom salt for magnesium, is basically all of what you need through vegging. Mg is for the foliage, K for the stems and branches, and P for roots. Nitrogen is a growth nutrient, and should be reserved for when you want fast growth - in mid-flowering, in my opinion and experience.
 

KokoKush

Member
Thanks for the help everyone. I have confirmed it's a female today and will be flowering her out. Check back and I'll keep everyone posted.
 

KokoKush

Member
Here's some pictures for an update. She is growing naturally in Y formation. And yes she is a she atleast for right now (chance of being hermaphroditic). Pictures should give everyone a better idea of the odd growth. Have a great day!
 
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KokoKush

Member
All of her siblings turned out also to be females! If any ball sacks are found the plants will be culled. I will be slowly inducing flower by reducing light one hour every other day until 12/12 is reached. Light source was changed to a 315w CMH. Too much heat with the 600w MH.
 

KokoKush

Member
Garden update mutated grapefruit it continuing its growth pattern of side shoots growing faster than the main stem. Soon the main stem will be over taken. The female siblings are doing just fine and I will be flowering out one Sweet Pink. Can you guess which one is sweet pink?
 
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