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Do breeders even IBL anymore?

S

sbeanonnamellow

Well-known member
Seems to be finding quality IBL's is getting more and more difficult. Hybrid this, polyhybrid that. What's that about?

Where are the solid IBL's to be found these days?

Are there any modern breeders doing this type of work with their lines?
 
T

TakenByTheSky

Most are selling unstable poly hybrids or random mismashes of similar family lines.

If you want IBLs maybe look at real seed company or khalifa genetics as they both sell landrace lines.
 
S

Safe Gardener

Active member
You just described my Nirvana Bubblicious and Nirvana Black Jack cross. Except I did it for myself so I wouldn’t have to buy seeds anymore. I can agree even though they have similar lineages the progeny is not exactly stable. I counted 4 different phenos in the last 13 females grown from seed. Not wildly different from each other but clearly not all the same. I don’t know what you would call it but this was a cross that the seeds were grown out and a decent male was taken and crossed again with a female from the initial crossing mentioned above.

TakenByTheSky said:
Most are selling unstable poly hybrids or random mismashes of similar family lines.
Click to expand...
 
lLucky

lLucky

Member
How do you have 4k posts and not know what an IBL is? Honestly curious lol


Yes breeders still do IBLs. It just depends on what you want or what they are trying to make. There's definitely a lot of pollen chucking and crossing big names over and over going on though.

Sometimes people want stable consistent plants and other times people want seeds with more variation.
 
S

sbeanonnamellow

Well-known member
TakenByTheSky said:
Most are selling unstable poly hybrids or random mismashes of similar family lines.

If you want IBLs maybe look at real seed company or khalifa genetics as they both sell landrace lines.
Click to expand...

Yeah, scooped a couple The Real Seed company varieties. They were out of stock of the mango thai, highland thai, and lao gold so keeping my eye on a restock for those.

Khalifa is a new one for me, I'll check them out. Thanks for the reply. Much love.
 
S

sbeanonnamellow

Well-known member
lLucky said:
How do you have 4k posts and not know what an IBL is? Honestly curious lol


Yes breeders still do IBLs. It just depends on what you want or what they are trying to make. There's definitely a lot of pollen chucking and crossing big names over and over going on though.

Sometimes people want stable consistent plants and other times people want seeds with more variation.
Click to expand...

There are some breeders using some great pure lines but just offering them in hybrids it seems like. I'm wanting to scoop some of that Zamal and some pure Thai lines. Missed out on them when Gypsy was offering them in the GN collection. Well, I actually scooped a pack of the thai stick and laos back in the day but was never dedicated enough to give them a proper attempt and like so many other packs of seeds they kinda just got lost to time and space.
 
C

CaptainDankness

Well-known member
You have to look pretty hard for them and a lot of them are pricey, seen this guy Menegene or something like that selling F5's for like $300 for 10 seeds, sounds decent and all but I don't have $300 I'm willing to spend on 10 seeds. Lol

I know I've seen a few other newer breeders. Of course Tom Hill is the man.

Really not too many people have offered IBL's in the history of seed companies. Definitely quicker and easier to make hybrids and they tend to dominate the cup wins. Other than Skunk#1 way back the hybrids have dominated about every cup.
 
B

Benny106

Man people just steal your hard work so why not just release it in heterozygous form, make them have to work for it.:bis:

It sucks i know but its an old chesnut in the seedy seed game.
 
T

TakenByTheSky

There is a lot of IBLs that come to mind that are right under your nose that you don't necessarily think of as they weren't made intentionally like c99, NL, white widow etc...a lot of those old strains have been pretty well inbred by the ppl that have picked them up and carried them for a few generations.
 
S

sbeanonnamellow

Well-known member
BeAn v.2.0 said:
Man people just steal your hard work so why not just release it in heterozygous form, make them have to work for it.:bis:

It sucks i know but its an old chesnut in the seedy seed game.
Click to expand...

We all stand on the shoulders of giants, but I get what you're saying.

I'm the type that would seek out the originals from the creator rather than some reproductions though, so maybe that's why I'm confused there aren't more choices available.

Depending on price of course. I scooped some madmac's THH reproductions because the originals were more than I'm willing to pay for a 10 pack. Pot meets kettle for sure.

Edit to include, took all of half a day to talk myself into some THH originals. Tom was recently recommended twice by two respected members here, not just for seed but for knowledge about breeding and cannabis plants. Excited to see how the reproductions stack up to toms offering. Much love
 
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B

Benny106

Meangene puts in work, if i wanted his stuff id pay that. I love watching that guy on tv, his attitude is on point.
 
troutman

troutman

Seed Whore
An IBL is an inbred line. To qualify as a true IBL the line has to be inbred maybe 10 times by breeding plants that are selected
with the same positive phenotypic traits. If the plants used have negative phenotypic traits, in other words look different,etc.
it won't be an IBL because too many variations will exist. Most seeds sold today don't qualify. A line of plants that is created
by a repeated backcross won't qualify either unless the parent used to backcross with is an IBL itself.

I get a feeling most people selling Cannabis seeds don't own a breeding book written by real scientists. :tiphat:
 
S

sbeanonnamellow

Well-known member
troutman said:
An IBL is an inbred line. To qualify as a true IBL the line has to be inbred maybe 10 times by breeding plants that are selected
with the same positive phenotypic traits. If the plants used have negative phenotypic traits, in other words look different,etc.
it won't be an IBL because too many variations will exist. Most seeds sold today don't qualify. A line of plants that is created
by a repeated backcross won't qualify either unless the parent used to backcross with is an IBL itself.

I get a feeling most people selling Cannabis seeds don't own a breeding book written by real scientists. :tiphat:
Click to expand...

Good stuff.

Found a copy of Plant Breeding by Hayward for less than $50. Can't wait to dig into it. Much love.
 
troutman

troutman

Seed Whore
There are other reasons very good IBLS are hard to find. ;)

Imagine if you spent 10 generations of breeding doing all the right things and released it to the public.
How long would it be before the seed hacks take it and make money from your hard work? It could be
why they would rather only sell F1's or even feminized versions so you can't steal their hard work.
Real breeding isn't easy to do.
 
M

meizzwang

Member
sbeanonnamellow said:
Yeah, scooped a couple The Real Seed company varieties. They were out of stock of the mango thai, highland thai, and lao gold so keeping my eye on a restock for those.

Khalifa is a new one for me, I'll check them out. Thanks for the reply. Much love.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, landraces are way different from modern, inbred hybrid lines. In a single sample of landrace seeds, they may all share some similar qualities, but every individual could have different, unique traits. For example, you can get an individual that will barely get you a head buzz, while another from the same pack of seeds might be pretty strong! Landraces aren't necessarily IBL's: some are from very large, genetically diverse populations that occasionally interbreed with feral genetics and nearby populations. Some landraces are feral wild types. Others are select genetics that have lots of diversity. A few are select, inbred lines that breed true.

A stable modern hybrid (IBL), killing fields:
32309502862_d3893f42e9_c.jpg




closer pic of killing fields:
32420678186_8904b8dcba_c.jpg

In stark contrast, here's Nanda Devi, a landrace sativa which is extremely diverse!
37901934794_95a2f4eaeb_c.jpg


This is also nanda devi, but it's WAY more resinous and WAY lower yielding compared to the one in the picture above:
49030024213_78a46f0aa5_c.jpg

Some landraces are uniform and have less diversity, like the South american sativas. Punto Rojo is a good example, although there are many different versions of it:
38409453402_b21e541b33_c.jpg


In my opinion, landraces are the future, but many don't have the vision to see that because when they try them out, they get these tall, lanky, low yielding, diverse plants, some of which take much longer to mature than modern hybrids. It's much easier just to cross newest hyped modern hybrid with another hyped out strain, but those all share the same parents somewhere in their family tree...they're all extremely similar! When you grow enough landraces out, you'll find those few gems with unique, rare traits that will be responsible for making that next best cultivar!
 
S

sbeanonnamellow

Well-known member
Excellent post meizzwang! I totally agree about the nuanced differenced between landraces and IBL's. Some landraces are IBL's but not all IBL's are landraces type of thing.

It all comes down to selection and which traits are being observed, kept, and/or discarded. I think landraces are an invaluable tool and that's where it all begins anyways. That's where we start to make IBL's, hybrids, and the like. Those rare specimens with traits that draw us in and have us become stewards of those plants and subsequent seedlines.

You posted up about the Nanda Devi, dude I was just looking at these wondering why they didn't make it into my cart last go around.

THC: 10.87%
CBD: 1.05%
CBN: 0.08%
Beta-caryophyllene: 0.42mg/mL
Alpha-pinene: 0.15mg/mL
Beta-pinene: 0.17mg/mL
Myrcene: 0.17mg/mL
Limonene: 0.07mg/mL
Geraniol: 1.56mg/mL
Terpenolene: 0.15mg/mL
Humulene: 1.27mg/mL
Nerolidol-1: 0.23mg/mL
Click to expand...

That geraniol with hardly any myrcene compared to modern cultivars got me stoked the fuck out. I wanna scoop some of those now. How did you like them?
 
GMT

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Can't believe that so many people have given the wrong answer to what is IBL.
IL Is inbred line, inbred is one word. IBL is inbred back crossed line.
This is all fallout from rez's bullshit spewed all over the place that people are repeating.
 
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