What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Sick Organic Outdoor Sativa: Opinions Please.

T

Teddybrae

The photo below is Mango Haze almost 3 months old. Is growing in soil amended with Chicken manure + additives Zeolite and Potash. High K Kelp (ascophylum nadosum) flakes were also added. Soil pH is 6 - 6.5 .
You will see the plant is dark green and that the leaves are curling, canoeing, and drooping.
A dig around the roots reveals they are nice and white and the soil has no smell. There's no sign of Termites and no insect strike.


But the texture of the soil seems strange in that it is friable in a way I 'm not used to. It clumps when squeezed but the slightest pressure causes the clumped ball to fall apart. Say, like sand.

Despite added Humates the bed doesn't store much water ... once again like sand.
The base soil was LOAM however ...


Sorry if I 've left out info ...


How can I remedy this situation?


picture.php
 

cote

Member
just looks dehydrated, I would either (A)dig in some coco coir or peat moss aroumd the plant as deep and as close to the plant as possible, I would worry too much about severing small roots as it looks like it has plenty of time to recover before it finishes flowering. Or (B) just start watering and/or feeding it more often, perhaps every other day? hope that helps!

Cote
 

TanzanianMagic

Well-known member
Veteran
The photo below is Mango Haze almost 3 months old. Is growing in soil amended with Chicken manure + additives Zeolite and Potash. High K Kelp (ascophylum nadosum) flakes were also added. Soil pH is 6 - 6.5 .
You will see the plant is dark green and that the leaves are curling, canoeing, and drooping.
A dig around the roots reveals they are nice and white and the soil has no smell. There's no sign of Termites and no insect strike.


But the texture of the soil seems strange in that it is friable in a way I 'm not used to. It clumps when squeezed but the slightest pressure causes the clumped ball to fall apart. Say, like sand.

Despite added Humates the bed doesn't store much water ... once again like sand.
The base soil was LOAM however ...

Sorry if I 've left out info ...

How can I remedy this situation?

View Image
Awesome growing environment.

1. Cannabis does great on a sandy loam

They like the drainage, and the sand adds extra available silica for resin formation.

2. You can bury a porous bottle near the plant.

https://sswm.info/sites/default/fil...010 Bottle and Clay Pot Irrigation_medium.jpg

Or a plant watering bottle.

3. Mulch

Cannabis bedding, compost, etc. will slow evaporation.

4. Hugels

For a future project. Hugels are buried logs that accumulate and absorb water and give it off very slowly. Popularized by Sepp Holzer.

https://www.permaculture.co.uk/site...public/images/Hugelkultur_0.png?itok=d6BJmo8P

5. Blumat

These are hydrocones that are fed from a tank of your choice. You can easily set them to start dripping when the soil has a certain dryness to it.

Probably your best solution right now.

Especially when combined with moisture preserving mulch, the blumats should provide more than enough moisture for the plants.
 

browntrout

Well-known member
Veteran
The photo below is Mango Haze almost 3 months old. Is growing in soil amended with Chicken manure + additives Zeolite and Potash. High K Kelp (ascophylum nadosum) flakes were also added. Soil pH is 6 - 6.5 .
You will see the plant is dark green and that the leaves are curling, canoeing, and drooping.
A dig around the roots reveals they are nice and white and the soil has no smell. There's no sign of Termites and no insect strike.


But the texture of the soil seems strange in that it is friable in a way I 'm not used to. It clumps when squeezed but the slightest pressure causes the clumped ball to fall apart. Say, like sand.

Despite added Humates the bed doesn't store much water ... once again like sand.
The base soil was LOAM however ...


Sorry if I 've left out info ...


How can I remedy this situation?


View Image

As others have said it does look like it is a bit dehydrated due to cupping, and a bit yellow but It may be the photo however. I would add some CalMag at 1/2 strength and and maybe some medium strength nutrients through watering as you have not stated any use of lime?

To me it looks like the beginning of lockout issue (PH or otherwise or lack of nutrients with the gradient of green/yellow towards bottom.

Short of that if issues continue to deteriorate I would dig the plant up with a wide footprint wash the roots with water to remove stagnant soil and plant in bigger hole with fresh soiless mix (Sunshine/Pro-mix, with less amendments.) That'll help with water retention / regulation as well) - This depending how long you have till flower, I have done this successfully many times and in most cases wish I had done it sooner.
 
T

Teddybrae

OK. Thanks All!

Mr Cote ... yes, I can do that. The thing is I have been working on that bed since winter (July) when I mulched it heavily with Lucerne. I had to spread Dolomite THREE times before the mulch rotted down and some of it is still not rotted. This alone is weird because it's been a warm winter and I have given the bed plenty of water.

Mr Magic ... I can water the plant daily. It's just that watering doesn't seem to improve anything ... so far anyway. This variety in this bed usually grows to three meters plus.

Yes, Dehydrated for sure, Mr Trout. I won't add Cal/Mag because uncombined Dolomite is still visible on the ground around the plant.
I am considering moving the plant from its spot. It's certainly not too late to do that.
And I also think there must be a mineral imbalance in the soil.

I did not add the Kelp. A 'helper' did. Ascophyllum kelp is for foliar feeding and I think the soil must now have excessive levels of Potash.

So I 'll try to leach out any excess by applying Gypsum and giving the bed a huge watering.
thanks again!
 

Dankwolf

Active member
This sounds best considering soil mix issue .

This sounds best considering soil mix issue .

So I 'll try to leach out any excess by applying Gypsum and giving the bed a huge watering.
thanks again!

:tiphat:
 

TanzanianMagic

Well-known member
Veteran
Mr Magic ... I can water the plant daily. It's just that watering doesn't seem to improve anything ... so far anyway. This variety in this bed usually grows to three meters plus.
Right through the end of stacking in late flowering, weed can take a lot of water.

If you have a permanent water table, there aren't going to be problems with underwatering or overwatering.

I use planters with reservoir, however you could upscale that with an irrigation ditch.

I think cannabis evolved along mountain riverbeds of rivers that only run for some of the year, and a water table of 2 feet, until it dries up.

When water dries up, calyx hairs begin to die and the plant starts to attract humidity through it's flowers. As long as the soil is dry, the flowers can draw water to the roots and soil.
 
T

Teddybrae

Mr Magic: the bed is in fact a large pot 7 meters long, 1.5M wide and 450mm deep. it is a trench lined with a plastic membrane and filled with goodies. It is many years old. It has been a good producer and has been 'refurbished' a couple of times. Seems to me something has gone wrong with the ability of the medium to retain moisture. For example the image shown was taken the morning after the bed was given 650 litres of water.
 
T

Teddybrae

I have been researching and find there is probably an excess of Potassium. There is an excellent image of symptoms of excess Potash on a cannabis plant here:


https://www.alchimiaweb.com/blogen/deficiency-excess-of-potassium-cannabis/


"Too much potassium disrupts the uptake of other important nutrients, such as calcium, nitrogen and magnesium, creating deficiencies that usually produce visible effects. A calcium deficiency produces irregularly shaped new leaves .... A nitrogen deficiency is suspected when older lower leaves on plants turn yellow while the rest remain a light green. Plants lacking magnesium will exhibit yellowing of the edges of older leaves that may also develop an arrowhead shape in their centers. While adding more of these substances to correct the imbalance may help, the excess potassium will most likely impact their long-term effectiveness."


So, Gypsum and a big flush is what will happen tomorrow and we'll see what happens after that.


Thanks All ...
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
I think you probably are holding back the N uptake with high K. Sand has a low cec so it should be possible to correct it as you say. I'm interested in the pot though. It sounds monumentally large, but does it have run-off?

The cupping might also be calcium problems caused by high K. As apposed to a lack of water.

I realise calcium spotting isn't particularly present, and the N issue not concentrating on the bottom leaves. I have seen this kind of thing with bagged up organic compost though. It's not like the elements are missing, they are just difficult to get, and the plant has grown up accepting this. It was an award winning compost actually, and the reason I don't do organic grows anymore.

K is hard to get through folair feeding. So an all round hydro spray with a wetting agent might perk them up again. That's my answer outdoors.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
For example the image shown was taken the morning after the bed was given 650 litres of water.

650 liters as in 150+ gallons as in about 20 cubic feet - 2/3 of a cubic meter ?

I'd be curious what the pH of the run-off is, but I guess that's difficult to measure unless you install a run-off collector of some kind.

No way to dig that hole without disturbing the existing root system.


One option is to plant indicator / bellwether plants.

I'm sure there are other plants you could grow next to the Haze that will tell you more about soil deficiencies etc.

Just don't know what they are.

Neville S. used red pepper as a surrogate for Cannabis - but I think he was growing mostly in rockwool.

The soil scientist guy who runs one of the compost facilities in Nor Cal shared with us in a composting class that he uses Red Clover, to test their soil & composting process.
 
T

Teddybrae

Yep, what you say aligns with my research. And the bed IS monumentally large and well drained. It slopes with the steep ground and has [EDIT] Haze side by side. Thanks f-e!


I think you probably are holding back the N uptake with high K. Sand has a low cec so it should be possible to correct it as you say. I'm interested in the pot though. It sounds monumentally large, but does it have run-off?

The cupping might also be calcium problems caused by high K. As apposed to a lack of water.

I realise calcium spotting isn't particularly present, and the N issue not concentrating on the bottom leaves. I have seen this kind of thing with bagged up organic compost though. It's not like the elements are missing, they are just difficult to get, and the plant has grown up accepting this. It was an award winning compost actually, and the reason I don't do organic grows anymore.

K is hard to get through folair feeding. So an all round hydro spray with a wetting agent might perk them up again. That's my answer outdoors.
 
Last edited:
T

Teddybrae

Yes, St P ... 150+ gals. I never thought of pH'ing the run off. was focused on the soil.

When I flush the bed I will check the run off ... but don't you think checking AFTER it's been in the soil is not much use? But I 'll do it and tell you.
The daylight hours are shortening. there is no time for experimenting. I don't absolutely NEED this plant to be a good one ...
Thanks for contributing!


650 liters as in 150+ gallons as in about 20 cubic feet - 2/3 of a cubic meter ?

I'd be curious what the pH of the run-off is, but I guess that's difficult to measure unless you install a run-off collector of some kind.

No way to dig that hole without disturbing the existing root system.


One option is to plant indicator / bellwether plants.

I'm sure there are other plants you could grow next to the Haze that will tell you more about soil deficiencies etc.

Just don't know what they are.

Neville S. used red pepper as a surrogate for Cannabis - but I think he was growing mostly in rockwool.

The soil scientist guy who runs one of the compost facilities in Nor Cal shared with us in a composting class that he uses Red Clover, to test their soil & composting process.
 
T

Teddybrae

So here's the plant 20 hrs or so after lots of Gypsum and a 300 litre flush. The plant has changed a lot. The growing tips even have the golden glow!

(Difficult to believe it's the same plant!!! This second photo is from same position but a slightly different angle and the ground covering shown in first pic has been removed. Also morning shot.)
I will flush it again today then foilar feed and give the soil some humates ... and watch it's progress.

Thanks to Everyone who came up with ideas. Seems excess Potash is a tricky diagnosis because the excess interferes with Nitrogen, Calcium and Magnesium uptake.


(St Phatty, the pH of the soil at the outlet of the drain was 7 -8!!! Must be unincorporated Dolomite.)


picture.php
 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top