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Old 08-25-2018, 04:25 PM #101
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Bravo, Fatigues!


Thank You for putting that together for us here to read.
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:00 PM #102
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So monsanto doesnt own the indoor garden industry. The assholes that brought us miracle grow do. Wow what a relief. I thought for a second some big evil corporation was taking over the industry. I just wish I could grow outdoors so I didnt have to buy products from greedy companies I hate. Scotts the company that brought you weed and feed so you can have a beautiful lawn with minimal work never mind the poision and unneeded fertilizer washing into our estuaries and groundwater. Here in fl they blame septic tanks for algae blooms in the indian river lagoon so they can make us hook to sewer but nobody says hey dumbass your fertilizing sugar sand and its just running into the water. Fuck SMG. I wish the Hawthorne guy would have broke off from SMG and denouced his families role in poisoning our planet. Then maybe I would have a tiny bit of respect for him. But the way it is he got rich off poisoning our land and took that money and bought our industry.
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Old 08-28-2018, 01:00 AM #103
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Originally Posted by P-NUT View Post
So monsanto doesnt own the indoor garden industry. The assholes that brought us miracle grow do. Wow what a relief. I thought for a second some big evil corporation was taking over the industry. I just wish I could grow outdoors so I didnt have to buy products from greedy companies I hate. Scotts the company that brought you weed and feed so you can have a beautiful lawn with minimal work never mind the poision and unneeded fertilizer washing into our estuaries and groundwater. Here in fl they blame septic tanks for algae blooms in the indian river lagoon so they can make us hook to sewer but nobody says hey dumbass your fertilizing sugar sand and its just running into the water. Fuck SMG. I wish the Hawthorne guy would have broke off from SMG and denouced his families role in poisoning our planet. Then maybe I would have a tiny bit of respect for him. But the way it is he got rich off poisoning our land and took that money and bought our industry.
Yup people though are missing the point that Scotts are every bit as unethical and corrupt as Monsanto... For example...

Reference News Release: Scotts Miracle-Gro Will Pay $12.5 Million in Criminal Fines and Civil Penalties for Violations of Federal Pesticide Laws

WASHINGTON – The Scotts Miracle-Gro Company, a producer of pesticides for commercial and consumer lawn and garden uses, was sentenced today in federal district court in Columbus, Ohio, to pay a $4 million fine and perform community service for eleven criminal violations of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA), which governs the manufacture, distribution, and sale of pesticides. Scotts pleaded guilty in February 2012 to illegally applying insecticides to its wild bird food products that are toxic to birds, falsifying pesticide registration documents, distributing pesticides with misleading and unapproved labels, and distributing unregistered pesticides. This is the largest criminal penalty under FIFRA to date
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Old 08-28-2018, 01:01 AM #104
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Oops forgot to post the link https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/refe...ines-and-civil
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:29 PM #105
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Originally Posted by BongFu View Post
Yup people though are missing the point that Scotts are every bit as unethical and corrupt as Monsanto... For example...
What happened was that Scotts bought "Morning Song" wild bird seed in 2005. At the time is was bought, the company that had been operating Morning Song had been storing their seed in a manner where insects could get at it. They protected it from spoilage by using insecticides. This practice continued after the sale and it came to light in 2008.

They should not have done it, but they did. That's the company that Scotts bought. Management for the Morning Song division authorized it, and he was fired.

The Morning Song division was later sold by Scotts. They've been out of all of that for several years now.

Its clearly not a good thing and it was unlawful. But your attempt to portray that as some "corporate-wide" cultural practice particular to Scotts is bullshit though. All of this took place more than ten years ago, in another corporate division. The EPA found no systemic practices or comparable wide violations as part of Scotts general corporate practices. Clearly, Morning Song was a troubled brand -- with a troubled product and a troubled brand manager.

Look, if you have a twitch in your eye and a sneer on your face for anything that sounds like Big Business? I get it. But if you have such an outlook by default, there isn't anything I'm going to say that is going to change your mind about that. Most likely, anyways.

Conversely, if somebody comes across as the kind of guy who faults Big Business for being what it is -- and you dismiss them all as inherently corrupt and evil, I'm not inclined to be persuaded by points that you may otherwise have (and which may be very good ones, viewed in isolation). Because while I'm not always sympathetic to business, I'm not always dismissive of their interests, either. I try and be pragmatic and avoid ideological or idealistic blinders. This world is a complicated place sometimes.

Most businesses employ people, feed families, and deliver products to us that generally work, cheaply. That's usually not a bad thing. Trying to judge it all as Good vs Evil is a little simplistic and childish for me.

Scotts Miracle Gro is a big company which is now firmly entrenched in the cannabis home-growing hobby. You may like that; and you may not like that. Doesn't change anything. The points to take away is that:

1- their presence is not going to change anytime soon, and
2- it would be better if they have a longterm view of their interests (and ours), rather than an eye focused on quarterly results.

So far, their brand acquisitions and purchases have all been with a longterm view of the market. That's a good sign. If that should change, we can freak out then -- as opposed to now.
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Old 08-30-2018, 01:42 PM #106
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Originally Posted by fatigues View Post
What happened was that Scotts bought "Morning Song" wild bird seed in 2005. At the time is was bought, the company that had been operating Morning Song had been storing their seed in a manner where insects could get at it. They protected it from spoilage by using insecticides. This practice continued after the sale and it came to light in 2008.

They should not have done it, but they did. That's the company that Scotts bought. Management for the Morning Song division authorized it, and he was fired.

The Morning Song division was later sold by Scotts. They've been out of all of that for several years now.

Its clearly not a good thing and it was unlawful. But your attempt to portray that as some "corporate-wide" cultural practice particular to Scotts is bullshit though. All of this took place more than ten years ago, in another corporate division. The EPA found no systemic practices or comparable wide violations as part of Scotts general corporate practices. Clearly, Morning Song was a troubled brand -- with a troubled product and a troubled brand manager.

Look, if you have a twitch in your eye and a sneer on your face for anything that sounds like Big Business? I get it. But if you have such an outlook by default, there isn't anything I'm going to say that is going to change your mind about that. Most likely, anyways.

Conversely, if somebody comes across as the kind of guy who faults Big Business for being what it is -- and you dismiss them all as inherently corrupt and evil, I'm not inclined to be persuaded by points that you may otherwise have (and which may be very good ones, viewed in isolation). Because while I'm not always sympathetic to business, I'm not always dismissive of their interests, either. I try and be pragmatic and avoid ideological or idealistic blinders. This world is a complicated place sometimes.

Most businesses employ people, feed families, and deliver products to us that generally work, cheaply. That's usually not a bad thing. Trying to judge it all as Good vs Evil is a little simplistic and childish for me.

Scotts Miracle Gro is a big company which is now firmly entrenched in the cannabis home-growing hobby. You may like that; and you may not like that. Doesn't change anything. The points to take away is that:

1- their presence is not going to change anytime soon, and
2- it would be better if they have a longterm view of their interests (and ours), rather than an eye focused on quarterly results.

So far, their brand acquisitions and purchases have all been with a longterm view of the market. That's a good sign. If that should change, we can freak out then -- as opposed to now.

Wow dude are you employed by Scotts or what? That's quite a spin you're putting on there spin doctor. No twitch in the eye BTW. I'm all for capitalism and actually see clean business coming into a largely shady sector where BS artists and false marketing rule the day as a can only be an improvement. However, Scotts makes even the most shady hydroponics industry company look relatively good. Its a bit hard to deny that it was Scotts who lied and attempted to deceive and was handed the largest fine in EPA/FIFRA history. Let's face it, it wasn't Monsanto - it was Scotts.


You say it was Morning Song management who authorized it and yet the facts of the case are reported as
"Scotts sold this illegally treated bird food for two years after it began marketing its bird food line and for six months after employees specifically warned Scotts management of the dangers of these pesticides. By the time it voluntarily recalled these products in March 2008, Scotts had sold more than 70 million units of bird food illegally treated with pesticide that is toxic to birds."


So something doesn't ring true about your spin.



As you rightfully point out though Scotts are trying to dominate the industry; however, it's not working out too well for them... I.e.
Here's Why The Scotts Miracle-Gro Company Fell 18.2% in 2018


https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/...-fell-182.aspx


Anyway, selling the Devil as the good guy must be a challenge so good luck with that one.
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:41 PM #107
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Yes fatigues, I see the blind response you were anticipating.
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Old 09-04-2018, 02:44 AM #108
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Yes fatigues, I see the blind response you were anticipating.
Yeah brilliant anticipation; the only problem is he didn't clarify why Scotts management were warned and failed to act for 6 months. Look the fact is though that this whole thread sort of stinks of a slander campaign started by industry interests because of sour grapes. I get that. Linking Scotts to Monsanto was geared to cause mass hysteria by a bunch of sheeple who couldn't even do some basic homework about Scotts (i.e. Scotts aren't Monsanto and Monsanto isn't Scotts). Even the Monsanto thing is a pack of hippy hater hysteria but let's not distort the facts. Scotts copped the largest fine in EPA history, not Monsanto and that is my point. Further, Scotts chose to bury the whole thing and were caught with their pants down. Denying this or painting it as anything other just introduces another pack of lies into the equation.
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Old 09-04-2018, 03:44 PM #109
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I'm sure fatigues was there, has all the details of everything and is simply denying us the pleasure so we can suffer.
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:25 AM #110
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I'm sure fatigues was there, has all the details of everything and is simply denying us the pleasure so we can suffer.
Lol sitting on their PR team working out how the fuck do we make this one go away no doubt:-) The EPA documents are available to anyone who wants to access them via FOI. As the media reports say; Scotts management ignored warnings. Funny thing about the print media; it's not like forums where anyone can say anything they like. The media have to report accurately lest they are sued for libel/slander so you'll find the media reports are bang on the money. Scotts, with their massive team of lawyers, were found criminally guilty and hit with the largest fine in EPA history. Now that makes Monsanto look pretty good by comparison.
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