The Election Wrecked America's Underground Weed Economy.

Gypsy Nirvana · Nov 12, 2016

As has been pointed out already, the spoiler in all these dreams is Federal Law, and some action has to be taken to keep growers aware of this, and somehow to find a way to highlight this huge disparity between state and federal laws on cannabis, which might put some weight on it changing, and the re-scheduling of cannabis/mj to a legal medicinal plant with huge potential in many industries......which it is.

EsterEssence · Nov 12, 2016

If history repeats itself, illegal growers will have to worry about the revenuers cause they haven't paid taxes...

bombadil.360 · Nov 12, 2016

Re-scheduling or even better, taking Cannabis of the scheduling system in the controlled substance act has many serious difficulties though.

Writing down the facts to repeal the scheduling is not one of them.

Dealing with some of the idiots in the legislation process is the issue.

How are you gonna make some of these idiots overcome their bias via scientific fact? Fat chance...they are still not convinced pollution is harmful for example.

But people living in the states in the U.S where state law allows them to have a cannabis industry should not become prisoners of fear because of the 'if' feds come though. It should not be a justification to sabotage state legalization efforts.

Skip · Nov 12, 2016

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But people living in the states in the U.S where state law allows them to have a cannabis industry should not become prisoners of fear because of the 'if' feds come though. It should not be a justification to sabotage state legalization efforts. [/FONT]

Oh, don'tcha know, the Repubs are all for states rights, except when they're feelin' hypocritical. And now they're in charge.

So don't be surprised when Big PHarma and Big Tobacco remind Congress who bought them.

Wanna legalize pot on the Federal level?

Better start buying some politicians, as that's the only way it's gonna happen.

And you better have deep pockets like those Industries I just mentioned.

DocTim420 · Nov 12, 2016

We all know big money fought against Prop 64....and big money will most likely resist rescheduling Cannabis.

Of the two possible pathways to reschedule Cannabis (Congress vs Executive Action), the hurdles required for Executive Action (petition, actions from the offices of Attorney General, HHS, FDA, and then finally the rule making process) make certain that this will not happen very soon. IMO, our best chance is for Congress to pass a law that amends the Controlled Substance Act to remove cannabis from Sched I.

Perhaps when about 2/3's of the states "legalize" cannabis, Congress then might have sufficient number of legislatures with a backbone to make this happen. Oh hum, what a oxymoron--politicians with a backbone, lol. At least my Republican congressman supports rescheduling cannabis as do both my Democrat senators.

huligun · Nov 12, 2016

The thing that most people cannot see, or are in total denial about are economic, political and cultural Paradigm shifts.

Throughout the history of mankind things have happened that limit or curtail the careers of various segments. Gold rushes, evolving technologies, prohibitions, and numerous other factors basically pull the blankets off of those that have become too comfortable and failed to evolve.

Almost always, when an economic paradigm does shift, it is no surprise to those most effected. When your very living depends on an industry you must be keen to factors that will disrupt it. One has to consider such things well in advance, diversify, or prepare to suffer the consequences.

Those involved in the fishing or timber industry can tell you that at one point in time they had completely lost their income. Those are just two very basic examples, but there are many. Large companies like Boeing have found considerable cost savings by sending their engineering to places with lower economies, like Mexico or India. Manufacturing jobs have been sent to the third world for some time now, but the man that lost his job as a logger will still buy tennis shoes manufactured in the third world.

Evolve or parish, that is all you can do. If your market is about to change you have sufficient warning. You need to plan for the future and diversify. I have covered everything from engineering in aerospace to growing marijuana, so nobody is really safe. Be keen to circumstance that can disrupt your career or you will be passed up in the paradigm shift.

resin_lung · Nov 12, 2016

Wasn't one of the arguments in favor of 64 in one of the closed threads that medical wasn't legal, that it was only something to be used in court as a defense if the Feds got involved?

Did I understand that wrong?

It seems that's the same deal with it now that it's "legal".

what am I missing here?

I'm not looking to argue with anybody. Just hoping someone can help me understand.

seeded · Nov 12, 2016

Skip said:
Oh, don'tcha know, the Repubs are all for states rights, except when they're feelin' hypocritical. And now they're in charge.

So don't be surprised when Big PHarma and Big Tobacco remind Congress who bought them.

Wanna legalize pot on the Federal level?

Better start buying some politicians, as that's the only way it's gonna happen.

And you better have deep pockets like those Industries I just mentioned.

Although Trump said he'd leave cannabis up to the states he's consistently rallied against federal regulations, said he's going to try to represent the people over special interests and is about to turn full politician over the next few months as his honeymoon period ends. If you can convince him to take it on at the federal level to secure more voters and then point at the United Nation's convention on narcotics saying how even if legal it treats everyone like criminals, goes completely against free market principals and undermines the ability of the government to write their own internal laws, you might just get him to remove the USA as a signatory to the declaration.

Until you get removed from that declaration you can't have sensible drug policy at the federal level. There's always going to be someone harping on about international politics, sanctions, etc. not to mention enough big money fighting over the legal monopoly that no other options will ever be considered or if they are they'll constantly be under attack using the united nation's convention on narcotics to try and force everyone else out.

Honestly legalization before being removed is just voting to legalize it for someone else. You might not get nearly as severely punished for exceeding the limits or stepping outside of the system but the fact there's still any issues like that should be telling enough that it's not really legal at all.

DocTim420 · Nov 12, 2016

huligun said:
...Evolve or parish, that is all you can do....

True. And this is also true: Life is "episodic". Just as one episode ends, another one surely begins.

But the rub is, it is human nature to behave as if life should be "constant" (hence most people dislike change). Ahh the conflicts of life and the challenges to unlock it's many mysteries.

Ready4 · Nov 12, 2016

LOL Naw , it did not wreck it at all. Government greed for taxes ( profits) will drive prices way up. The underground will flourish just fine. Change ? For sure, the large outdoor grows will face probable increased harassment from pigs on the wing. More work, more guerilla growing.
For some, their hard work could be switched into a landscape business which may be less work and more profit. Change always happens, time to adjust to new reality as people have done for many, many centuries across the globe - since the beginning of "civilization" ( longer than 6,000 years lol !!!) : > )

PDX Dopesmoker · Nov 12, 2016

Does anyone know how large the commercial grows that CA and NV are going to be licensing are going to be?
Hemp farmers and some high THC outdoor farmers in Oregon are already demonstrating that large scale production can be done at much, much lower $ per unit THC than is currently common and if the material is all run for extracts then the necessary high potency is also there. Not too many people are going to buy a $15 gram of quality flower if dabs are available at $5/g.
In the traditional areas of cannabis production large grows turned into concentrates have become the economical option for producers. Is that the future, 1000 acre errrl farms?
If that is the case then CA's domestic needs for THC can be filled on about 12,000 acres of farm land.

This is in the back pages of https://www.oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/15-0103 (Marijuana)_1.pdf

(a) The license classification pursuant to this division shall, at a minimum, be as follows:
(1) Type I = Cultivation; Specialty outdoor; Small.
(2) Type IA == Cultivation; Specialty indoor; Small.
(3) Type IB = Cultivation; Specialty mixed-light; Small.
(4) Type 2 = Cultivation; Outdoor; Small.
(5) Type 2A = Cultivation; Indoor; Small.
(6) Type 2B = Cultivation; Mixed-light; Small.
(7) Type 3 = Cultivation; Outdoor; Medium.
(8) Type 3A = Cultivation; Indoor; Medium.
(9) Type 3B = Cultivation; Mixed-light; Medium.
(10) Type 4 = Cultivation; Nursery.
(11) Type 5 = Cultivation; Outdoor; Large.
(12) Type 5A =Cultivation; Indoor; Large.
(13) Type 5B = Cultivation; Mixed-light; Large.
(14) Type 6 = Manufacturer 1.
(15) Type 7 = Manufacturer 2.
(16) Type 8 = Testing.
(17) Type 10 = Retailer.
(18) Type 11 = Distributor.
(19) Type 12 =Microbusiness.

I didn't read the whole thing yet, but I did see that blunts are going to be illegal commercially and so are alcohol tinctures maybe. Is illegally smuggled Mexican brick blunts going to be a thing? I hope so.

bombadil.360 · Nov 12, 2016

resin_lung said:
Wasn't one of the arguments in favor of 64 in one of the closed threads that medical wasn't legal, that it was only something to be used in court as a defense if the Feds got involved?

Did I understand that wrong?

It seems that's the same deal with it now that it's "legal".

what am I missing here?

I'm not looking to argue with anybody. Just hoping someone can help me understand.

215 is a defense against state prosecution.

Lets say the local sheriff catches someone growing, and the case goes to a state court, then 215 can help that certain someone.

But lets say that certain someone is caught by the dea, then it goes to federal court and 215 is meaningless.

Hope that helps.

Peace

resin_lung · Nov 13, 2016

Ok, Now what if I was to place AUMA in those scenarios above?

Thanks, I believe an answer to this last question will be all I need.

Apologize for not yet being able to get my head around the difference.

Der Raketmensch · Nov 13, 2016

Skip said:
Funny thing is, when I talk to growers, it seems none of them want to grow legally.
They just want to keep on doing what they're doing, feeding the market illegally.
Even though they might have money to start doing it legally, they just can't bring themselves to work within the system.

Doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it's too much work to have to deal with gov't and forms and pay taxes...

Instead they sit on ever growing piles of cash that they can't spend easily.
If you do it legally, you can spend as much as you like anyway you like and be on the right side of the law...
And if you're really business savvy you can expand as much as you can dream.

We should all be glad that with all this legalization comes LESS RISK, not only if you do it legally, but because with prices dropping and supply increasing there should be less risk of rip-offs and violence (we hope!)

I get the impression that growers who have been at it for a while can't allow themselves, or willingly refuse, to believe that the government will act in their best interests. Not that their skepticism and fears are totally unfounded. Too many years under the shadow of prohibition...

oldchuck · Nov 13, 2016

Skip said:
Funny thing is, when I talk to growers, it seems none of them want to grow legally.
They just want to keep on doing what they're doing, feeding the market illegally.
Even though they might have money to start doing it legally, they just can't bring themselves to work within the system.

Doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it's too much work to have to deal with gov't and forms and pay taxes...

Instead they sit on ever growing piles of cash that they can't spend easily.
If you do it legally, you can spend as much as you like anyway you like and be on the right side of the law...
And if you're really business savvy you can expand as much as you can dream.

Skip, I'm surprised you don't get it. We have been outlaws for almost all our lives. We will probably allways consider our selves outlaws. Anti establiishmen, cops, administrators, politicians are the enemy. Money is not the issue I think. Weed is only part of a culture that rejects conventional thinking and conforming to social norms.

Gry · Nov 13, 2016

Watching the powers that be rig everything from elections to auto mileage...

resin_lung · Nov 13, 2016

CONTROL! It's always been about control. It's what I've always been against and what I refused to allow myself to surrender to. Allowed to...... MY ASS! Prohibition isn't over until the power that be stop thinking they can prohibit me in any way.

I'm John J. Rambo and they drew first blood!

Well I'm not in as good a shape, but ive lost as many friends to this war and I'm just stubborn!

Chunkypigs · Nov 13, 2016

huligun said:
The thing that most people cannot see, or are in total denial about are economic, political and cultural Paradigm shifts.

Throughout the history of mankind things have happened that limit or curtail the careers of various segments. Gold rushes, evolving technologies, prohibitions, and numerous other factors basically pull the blankets off of those that have become too comfortable and failed to evolve.

Almost always, when an economic paradigm does shift, it is no surprise to those most effected. When your very living depends on an industry you must be keen to factors that will disrupt it. One has to consider such things well in advance, diversify, or prepare to suffer the consequences.

Those involved in the fishing or timber industry can tell you that at one point in time they had completely lost their income. Those are just two very basic examples, but there are many. Large companies like Boeing have found considerable cost savings by sending their engineering to places with lower economies, like Mexico or India. Manufacturing jobs have been sent to the third world for some time now, but the man that lost his job as a logger will still buy tennis shoes manufactured in the third world.

Evolve or parish, that is all you can do. If your market is about to change you have sufficient warning. You need to plan for the future and diversify. I have covered everything from engineering in aerospace to growing marijuana, so nobody is really safe. Be keen to circumstance that can disrupt your career or you will be passed up in the paradigm shift.

mexicans grow and harvest and package most of the food here. once upon a time in the sixties they grew the best weed down there dirt cheap and we still talk about how good it was.

it kills me to see all these indoor weed farms in new legal states when at some point production should and will head south where it's cheaper and sustainable.

legalization is going to move Cannabis production south of the border eventually and the stoner cash train will evaporate.

imma miss that old school when it dies, yo.

yesum · Nov 13, 2016

Underground means illegal. So no, legalization did not wreck that. I was in the era of the real outlaw before this medical shit. City near by me will be selling pot next year, not that I care as I grow for myself. No card just show them the money. They want the taxes for the broke city.

bombadil.360 · Nov 13, 2016

resin_lung said:
Ok, Now what if I was to place AUMA in those scenarios above?

Thanks, I believe an answer to this last question will be all I need.

Apologize for not yet being able to get my head around the difference.

So if you place auma instead of 215, then the local sheriff would not need to catch you because herb is legal so no need to go to state court and use 215 as a defense.

If the dea catches you under auma, it means they really want to fuck with you for some reason. Like growing in a national park illegally etc...

But dea won't be busting people who are complying under auma, because state law in this case will help your defense in fed court.

The Election Wrecked America's Underground Weed Economy.

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