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If you live in a Legal Cannabis State and are unhappy post here!
- Thread starter shaggyballs
- Start date
Higher prices from limited sources isn't crafted for consumers, either. Average Joe smoker is getting fucked over as much as I am.
The primary benefactors appear to be wealthy investors.
What's really funny is that the Colorado market consist of 40% black market. Yet, you said Colorado voters don't want the black market and that's why these policies exist. These same voters who voted to get rid of black market are now turning around buying 40% of their weed from the black market they voted to eliminate. You're saying,"Colorado voters don't want black market residential growers." Then, why are they buying 40% of their weed from them?
I can tell by your untrained, heat stressed, malnourished plants. Why an inexperienced hobby grower like you has taken to a debate on the future of the cannabis industry is beyond me. I don't get it.
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WaittillIdie
Member
dc
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I'm not denying that.
Can you grow weed in your house in Washington? No?
Then, it's already played out.
Hybrids? What does that have to do with elite California cuts? I'm talking original cuts. Larry OG, SFV OG, Tahoe OG, etc. Not Swerve/Cali Connection hybrid OG releases barring the name, but the originals. That's what I'm comparing to Colorado OG.
I'm comparing elite Cali OG cuts to whatever you call this OG coming from Colorado. Hybrids from purchased seeds is probably what you see in Colorado primarily. Any elite cuts that have made it to Colorado aren't being grown by people who know how to do it right. That's for damned sure. Hasn't Swerve since set up shop in Colorado because there was no market for his OG hybrids when everyone out there has access to the originals? Why does all the OG from Colorado suck again?
It's the difference in legal systems causing the discrepancy in quality:
Colorado: Massive commercial operations
California: Mix of big operations and residential operations
Colorado is strictly a commercial weed market. There is no top shelf, as a result. 6 plant closet growers struggle to find elite cuts when limited to growing out no more than 6 seeds. Regulations like that effect quality in the markets. Most of the weed in the market is commercially produced and the only good weed grown in Colorado is by residents who grow for themselves and are lucky enough to have access to go a good cut, or get lucky with 6 seeds. The good shit in Colorado never makes it to market...legal, or black.
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WaittillIdie
Member
dc
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Expect $20 eighths a year from now, all taxes included. Capitalism in action, cuttin' each others' throats for market share. Actual price of production for the big boys is quite low. And there's a bunch of 'em- hundreds. And there's no place else for their weed to go. It's not like you selling to dispensaries & slinging the rest out the back door.
Like I said, $20 eighths coming our way, right around the corner at your friendly retailer. Brand name products, too, so you know what you're getting. Look at that! Inspected by the State of CO for purity & potency. Right on the label! Friendly staff, comfy environment, put it on your Visa card. They'll walk the girls to their cars.
Probably doesn't sound like any dope deal you ever did, huh? Why would anybody buy from unreliable arrogant flakes? Cuz they need a sleazy thrill, or what?
Ay-yup. I like to let 'em just grow. It's interesting how different varieties express their qualities. I like the idea that I know what's in it, too, and I prefer the taste of organic weed. And that harvest was 550 grams of cleaned well cured bud, more than enough to last until I grow more. Some of it will make nice Christmas presents, I think.
It's all good here. No worries.
"I pretend that I don't like people getting into legal trouble over weed while defending CO's legalization system and that my regulations are designed to keep that from happening. Then, I turn around and make fun of people getting into legal trouble over weed."
Shows how genuine you are, monsoon.
The elites are better. That's why it matters. If you smoked them you would know that.
What hybrids did you grow?
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WaittillIdie
Member
I grew nunya.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
So is the quality. Hence, the $20/eighths price tag. You can only charge so much for garbage. You keep saying,"The black market will get priced out." The black market needs to be matched on quality before you can do that. You're not going to do that with massive grow operations run by hourly employees who don't give a fuck about quality.
You mean like it currently is being "inspected for purity?" I think the New York Times tested Colorado retail weed and found "60% covered in pesticides."
You're not exactly blowing us away.
Because the quality is exponential better when purchasing from a small scale grower who pays attention to detail versus a commercial operation who pays an hourly employee to do the bare minimum. Your inexperience shows every time you talk about commercial weed vs. craft grown weed. "The big boys can do it cheaper. Cheaper I say. CHEAPER!!!!!!" Price isn't the only factor in the equation. That's why I pay twice as much for California OG than I do for Colorado commercial weed.
It's not going to change the game in Colorado to have 300 mid-grade commercial growers increase to 3,000 mid-grade commercial growers. Until you see top shelf in mass quantity you won't see prices change much in the grand scheme. You can sell the mid-grade for as little as you want. It doesn't affect the top shelf prices.
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It already has. Remember? 40% of the weed sold in Colorado is on the black market because all the shit in the legal market sucked ass.
I never said they wouldn't. This notion you have that commercial operations don't is fiction, though. In fact, commercial operations in Colorado have guidelines that allow for the use of pesticides.
"I've seen stuff in grow houses – oh my God, you don't even want to know about," said Genifer Murray, the owner of CannLabs, a Denver lab that tests marijuana. She said she has seen cans of bug spray next to marijuana, plants covered with powdery mildew and lax sanitation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/marijuana-legalization-ra_n_2670916.html
Ill informed skepticism from an amateur who grows 6 plants.
You don't think these operations currently in existence that are producing mid-grade don't have scientist and experts with horticultural degrees? I know for a fact they do. I've read articles about these dispensaries employing such "experts." That's the reason they have such low quality product. Because, these "scientist" crunch the numbers and realize there is more $$$$$$ in large operations growing mid-grade in high quantity then there is in growing top shelf in low quantity. No amount of expertise will ever change that fact for large operations. Grow low quality and survive in the commercial weed realm. Try to move up in quality by sacrificing quantity and the operation fails and becomes less profitable. The overhead a commercial operation has causes them to factor in other expenses. Employee salaries, massive utility bills, cost of property, insurance costs, etc. These are costs that residential craft growers simply don't have to deal with and factor into their horticultural decisions.
It doesn't matter how much of an expert a grower is in horticulture. When you have 500 lights to tend to it's impossible to pay attention to the level of detail a small scale grower pays. Is that horticultural biologist going to go into the warehouse 3 times a day and rotate his plants around so that each part of each plant gets an equal amount of light under each one of those 500 lights? No, they're not. They literally don't have the time to do that throughout the course of a day. They'll just plant their plants in DWC setups and leave them stationary. This is the kind of attention to detail a smaller grower will be able to pay that larger growers don't have the time for. These aren't minor details, either. They're the kind of details that separate mid-grade from top shelf. Is the hourly employee going to give a fuck about paying attention to that kind of detail when he makes the same amount of money either way? No, they're not. They're going to do the bare minimum like hourly shitpaid employees do in any line of work.
The horticulturist biologist is going to say,"Hey. Hourly employee... do this."
Hourly employee says,"Sure thing boss. I'll get right on it."
Biologist walks off and the employee goes back to playing Angry Birds on his phone because what does he give a fuck...he makes the same amount of money either way. So on and so forth. The same problems any business owner runs into with any business requiring the use of hourly employees.
These large operations have business models that simply aren't possible to grow high quality cannabis under. If you knew more about what's required to grow high quality cannabis (which you clearly don't) you would understand that. You can't run a high quality cannabis production operation by paying people. It just doesn't work like that. Even if you do find a horticulturalist....how long do you think it is before that expert leaves your company and starts his own operation where all the profits go into his pocket? How much are these investors going to pay a horticultural biologist? Anything less than 100% will motivate them to take their expertise elsewhere. This is why commercial operations will rise and fall. After 2-3 years that scientist being payed by the investors is going to start realizing that he can afford to start his own smaller operation with the salary payed by these investors and make a lot more money doing so.
Why would a scientist sit there making 6 figures when they can afford to go start a 7 figure a year operation of their own after 2-3 years? The economics of commercial cannabis just aren't in favor of big investors and big operations. Scenarios like this clearly aren't even being contemplated by wealthy investors. These guys are getting involved in business deals with scientist and horticulturalist who will just walk out on them and start their own operations as soon as they're financially capable in 2-3 years. Why wouldn't they? You think these scientist are going to stick around with the corporate company paying them shit salaries in comparison to what they'd make on their own and requiring them to do ALL the work in the process?
Again, do you think none of this is going on in Colorado right now? All of it is and still the Colorado market is comprised entirely of mid-grade.
You don't have any proof that large operations can produce high quality other than this repetitive claim that they can. The only weed posted on these threads from Colorado has been mid-grade and it was presented has top shelf. Unless, you have examples that have yet to be posted.
lulz
You don't even have a single large operations that can produce high grade. Yet, you believe the market will be flooded with those operations? This shit is too funny. The reason California's weed is so much better is because of residential growers being allowed into the market.
Until you allow residential growers into the market you won't have high grade, top shelf weed. It's a fact.
Not likely.
It didn't happen in California. Top shelf is still popular along with the extracts. I don't see why you think it will happen nationwide when the documented markets we have available to observe don't reflect that at all. California has been in this game waaaaaaaaay longer than Colorado and the trends don't reflect what you're saying at all. California has 38 million people who still want high quality weed. You're saying a non-existent trend in Colorado's small 5 million person market will be more of an accurate depiction of nationwide sales?
The only reason concentrates are as popular as they are in Colorado is because of the fact that the weed sucks so bad. People don't have a choice, but to consume those products if they want something stronger.
Did the guy who has no more experience than growing 6 plants tell me that my experience growing thousands doesn't apply? Tell me "6 plant master." Inform us with all your infinite wisdom on the industry.
I'm sure you've learned so much in growing 6 plants at a time in a closet in the weakest weed market in the world.
You've had plenty of product. It's just that it's all overpriced garbage. That's why people went to the black market for a better product. The black market, that people are turning to, isn't occupied by large scale commercial growers. It's occupied by residential growers with talent.
No amount of mid-grade commercial operations are going to eliminate the demand for high quality residential operations. Now, if these commercial operations can step up there game, then that's another story. However, there is no evidence that they can at this point. Just claims.
That's like the saying the price drop of McCormick Vodka will effect Grey Goose.
Get it through your head. Colorado produces McCormick and the prices reflect that. All of the figures in that model apply to mid-grade weed. Not top shelf. Would you care to post a model that actually focuses on the price of top shelf weed in a competitive market? Oz's in California dispensaries are selling for $300+. Oz's in Colorado go for $175. This is because the weed in Colorado is garbage.glglgl
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Seriously? Genes? You have all the same genetics in Colorado and you're producing nothing, but crap in your retail market. All of your OG is pure crap in Colorado. This is because of your growing methods that only allow for commercial operations. Not genetics.
The reason the weed is better in California is because the market allows for smaller growers, who pay far more attention to detail, to participate. It has nothing to do with genes. It's the difference in growing methods causing the discrepancy in quality between California and Colorado. Differences that are the product of different regulations. Large scale commercial operations can't compete with smaller residential craft growers on quality.
They never have and they never will.
Funn you'd say that, given that the best guess is more like 6%.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/colorado-marijuana-black-market_n_5669302.html
Kewl. A self promotional puff piece about a CO canna lab operator who talking about the grow houses in the MMJ scene that she's seen some time in the past. Feb 2013, prior to the rules currently in force for retail outfits. They listened to people like her as they made the new rules. Imagine that.
You reference the discarded vertical integration model of limited supply, which has no bearing on the retail market shaping up. As of Oct 1, retailers need grow nothing.
Twirling the plants around in circles produces better bud? Really? Is that clockwise or counter clockwise? Like it matters. puh-leeze.
Yep. Im sure you know more about it than multi millionaire venture capitalists & outfits like Riverrock. The scale is so large that it takes capital, not what a sub $100K professional can swing. Top money for degreed agriculturalists is ~$90K.
http://work.chron.com/salaries-horticulturists-3717.html
They'll just create a different market, like I said. Dry sift & bubble at the top, bud through the middle, shatter & wax at the bottom. They'll blend it all together into new products of all descriptions if they want. People will buy them because those products deliver what they want. Or not. In which case somebody else will.
It's an opinion.
They're a viable choice for people who want stronger stuff. They'll go that way if the price is right. In CA, it's not. Supply constrained market, remember?
As you've shown rather well, growing weed doesn't mean you understand market dynamics at all. It's like a bootlegger claiming to know all about the whiskey business.
And a lot of no-talent bums, I'm sure. Guys proven to grow toenail fungus.
Mere assertion. It's called motivated reasoning
When the price of the cheap stuff goes down, it drags down the price in the next tier & so on.
As I've pointed out, top shelf isn't just about weed. It's about the whole range of canna products. People will readily alter their choices when the price is right. Well, except when they have a jet lift pipeline to Snoop's stash man. Then nothing has to make sense.
Repetition of a priori opinion as fact. that's called ontology.
Even that article says the figures are immeasurable. However, it's safe to assume that 6% is total fucking bullshit. There's not way only 6% is black market.
Okay. This is more recent. So, testing for pesticides isn't even going into effect until October 1st. You've been claiming that it's been happening this entire time. lulz
Testing for the safety of pot products—including the presence of mold, pesticides, and metals—will be required starting on Oct. 1
http://www.denverijournal.com/article.php?id=10379
That's irrelevant. The growers they're purchasing from are growing in large commercial operations in the same conditions with the same expenses that effect quality.
Unless you have residential craft growers in your market the quality of Colorado retail weed will not get any better by increasing the number of large mid-grade commercial operations. You'll simply have a larger selection of different strains in the mid-grade category, but no top shelf in retail stores.
The distance from the bulb is crucial, newbie. This is why you should top and train your plants for an even canopy. Which, I can tell you don't know anything about just from looking at your setup. Also, don't use plastic pots. Use Smart Pots. Nobody uses plastic anymore. There are chemicals in plastic pots that are harmful to the plant.
If you don't keep rotating the plants and exposing the buds to an equal amount of lumens you get wispy/leafy buds with tiny calyxes that don't fill in as much. Like the kind you see consistently from Colorado weed grown in commercial facilities. Facilities where they don't pay attention to this kind of detail.
Are you saying $90K is going to motivate a horticulturalist to stay with the company? They'll be out of there in less than 5 years with $90K a year. If you pay a horticulturalist $200K/year they'll walk out on you sooner because a warehouse space is only $300,000 in Denver and can yield far more than $200K/year in profit for the horticulturalist.
What aspect of this scenario is beneficial for wealthy investors looking to be involved in this industry for decades to come? It all spells disaster for them.
It didn't happen in Cali, where the supply is BIGGER than Colorado.
I remember you saying that California ships their excess out of state. That's what I remember. How can a supply constrained state have "excess" product?
California isn't supply constrained. The supply in Cali is far superior to Colorado. So, what are you talking about? I get the impression that you've been proven wrong, so you claim Cali is "supply constrained" because it's the only example we have to compare the market to and it just so happen this example doesn't back up your argument.
Hence, this "supply constrained" bullshit. If trends in Cali supported your argument you wouldn't be making up this bullshit about Cali being "supply constrained." You're just trying to make up on excuse to explain the inconsistency.
Price of Colorado weed= $175/oz
Price of California weed=$300/oz
Nope. The cheap weed didn't effect the market in California. You're claiming it will effect the entire nation when it isn't even effecting another weed state. Oh, and you think Colorado is the only place with large commercial growers? Guys have been running large operations in California this entire time. Those large operations did nothing to effect the price of top shelf because they're product didn't compete with the top shelf. They're two different products.
Is your cheap Colorado weed effecting California weed prices in my illegal state? Nope. You're selling a different product in Colorado. It's as if it's not even the same drug.
For the average smoker, yes. The price is a big deal.
For the connoisseur, no. The price is irrelevant. You could lower Colorado weed to $20/oz. I'll still take the Cali OG at $300/oz. The prices of low quality weed don't have any effect on high quality weed. They never have and they never will.
When you have limited supplies of top shelf, the demand dictates the price of the top shelf. Not the price of mid-grade. If one consumer is willing to pay $250/oz and another is willing to pay $300/oz...the guy willing to pay $300 is going to get the product and dictate the price. It's the same way for dispensaries. One dispensary is willing to pay $2,500/lb for the top shelf. Another is willing to outbid that dispensary and pay the grower $3,000/lb in order to meet the demands of the customers in their dispensary. Whoever bids more gets the product. I don't see why you think shitty weed that sells for $1,000/lb will change that process just because it sells for 30% of the price of the good stuff. That $1,000/lb isn't being sold for $1,000/lb because the producers have the capital and the infrastructure to handle the price drop. It's being sold for $1,000/lb because it's shitty weed that won't get purchased for anymore than that.
Connoisseurs, historically, aren't bargain shoppers in case you haven't noticed.
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