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Old 02-24-2008, 06:05 AM #11
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Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
Well, Nevilles Haze is derived from Original Haze matierials I gave Neville in 1980's, not 1969, but it is not a pure Haze, it has been crossed with the NL line.
So you are comparing apples and oranges..
Take FD Original Haze and make a cross with your favorite female clone and you will be surprised how good it is. Often much better then either parent.

Also I have suggested many times that Original Haze is "breeding material" not great commercial growing materials, but you seem to only notice what you want to notice. It is the only pure Original Haze available.

Bottom line is if you want an almost Haze line that is stong and popular get Nevilles Haze, SSH, Kali Mist, Sage, or a dozen other Haze Hybrids that mostly used my Original Haze as a parent, directly or through a Haze Hybrid based on my Haze genetics available from 1976 from me.

If you want pure Sativa blood to use for breeding then remember that all of the above are Haze hybrids only and most used Indica bloodlines to some degree.

"We're talking about the Original Haze from The Flying Dutchmen, which doesnt list its flowering times nearly at 26 weeks"

What is the 26 weeks about? I have grown Haze a lot, but 26 weeks? WTF??

-SamS
California heirloom lines of pure haze have many phenos that will flower for over 26 weeks. these individuals are sometimes known to "never stop flowering" and are often discarded due to their flowering time but shouldn't be... extremely psychedelic individuals can be found in this gene pool.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:11 AM #12
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Sam your posts seem to be most clear and w/o nitpicking details to death...bravo sir, ? Does the T in T*hazexSkunk refer to the Thai used in the NL5 and other Nl lines and if so/not what other crosses was it used in?
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:12 AM #13
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:27 AM #14
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Anatomic please dont tell me you prefer a Kush to a Haze line ? There are many reasons its a bigger topic but not b/c of the quality of high...probably b/c of the complex growing conditions of Haze vs the simplicity of kush

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Old 02-24-2008, 06:36 AM #15
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Originally Posted by C21H30O2
California heirloom lines of pure haze have many phenos that will flower for over 26 weeks. these individuals are sometimes known to "never stop flowering" and are often discarded due to their flowering time but shouldn't be... extremely psychedelic individuals can be found in this gene pool.
This is a typical response you can find throughout the forums and these words and similar have been echoed throughout the years as well. But there is little hard evidence to substantiate these claims, however privelant they may be. I would like the oppurtunity to grow one of these 'heirloom' Haze vareitys we all hear/read so much about personally. If it was indeed as good has been stated, I would certainly post my honest assessment on it. So far the Haze hybrids Ive worked with were good, but not the day enders/ruiners/lord of all marijuana varietys we have all grown accustomed to reading about on the forums.


I have certainly smoked "schwagg" as some of you would call it that had LSD like qualities(low doses of LSD that is). They were Mexican lines, but the effect of the cannabis was what made it so special.

So many groweres and members of the forum place emphasis on a how variety looks. I can tell you first hand, that nice looking varietys do not mean they smoke nice. And you can have exceptionally aesthetically pleasing varietys that do not even come close to varietys most would consider "schwagg" by appearance but which have devestating effects.

Ive got the utmost respect for the guys who came before us, especially guys like Sam who are legends in the industry. However I can only post my own experiences and ask questions I find relavent. I mean no disrespect to anyone, or any company. But as a consumer, potsmen and somebody who takes this all very seriously there are alot of questions that do not seem to get asked, which are truely hitting at the heart of the issue(s). Some people dont ask the important questions because they are newer members, others are just ignorant as to entire story/facts around the varietys they discuss and others have an agenda for whatever reason. There are some members on the forums who take this as equally serious as I do, but the truth is from my stand point these members are few and far between.

The oppurtunity to discuss things with Sam personally is invaluable. We should all show great respect to Sam and realize what he has accomplished/meant to the marijuana industry.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:58 AM #16
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Originally Posted by Resingrower
Anatomic please dont tell me you prefer a Kush to a Haze line ? There are many reasons its a bigger topic but not b/c of the quality of high...probably b/c of the complex growing conditions of Haze vs the simplicity of kush
lol, I never said anything of the sort Resingrower.


One of the main reasons the Kush is so highly reguarded is because its good. And ofcourse they are easier to deal with then some of the Haze lines, but that begs the question. There are several sativa fanatics online, and have been for many years. We have thousands, if not 10s of thousands of growers who participate in the various forums. What I notice is a lack of grow reports on the Original Haze, even though you see consistant post on how good the marijuana is. Rarely do we see actual grow reports, which if validating the description of these lines would surely bring more growers into the picture.

That has not been the case, and I find it quite interesting to be honest. In my experiences the Hazes are good, even quite good. But none have measured up to the descriptions we hear/read about on the forums. And there is a void of reliable members past and present who have grown these varietys and reported their findings.


My position is not that Haze is better then Kush, or vice versa. Its just interesting to note the reputation Original Haze has, yet there is a lack of growers/reports to authenticate the numerous characterizations of high associated with Original Haze.

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Old 02-24-2008, 10:18 AM #17
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And I am wondering Sam if the stock from seedsman is originally from you as well and if you would recommened it personally to buy stuff from there.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:17 AM #18
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AnatomiclySound,
"First things first, you should be aware I have alot of respect for you. But I have to say that Ive got first hand knowledge from those involved at MNS that contradict your story of giving Neville the seeds that ultimately went into the Nevilles Haze. They can and do trace their haze stock back to 1969 and I have absolutely no reason to doubt their words."
"Originally Posted by shantibaba :Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969"

You do not have first hand anything as none of the people at MNSeeds were even around when I showed Neville his first Original Haze, he had never seen it before, he told me so, it was in 84, and Shantibaba was not even in Holland. I like Shantibaba and he just does not know the facts because he was not here, and/or he has been misled by others.
As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, thats what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

-SamS

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Old 02-24-2008, 11:26 AM #19
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Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
AnatomiclySound,
"
You do not have first hand anything as none of the people at MNSeeds were even around when I showed Neville his first Original Haze, he had never seen it before, he told me so, it was in 84, and Shantibaba was not even in Holland. I like Shantibaba and he just does not know the facts because he was not here, and/or he has been misled by others.
As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, thats what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

-SamS
Hi Sam,
Yes Im aware of your position on this Sam, but as I said I have no reason to doubt the words of the MNS crew. Shantibaba is one of the most outstanding gentleman in the industry. And as far as the 1969 lines, I do believe the plants in question were pulled from Seed not clone. And to my knowledge,(dont quote me on this) there are backup seeds from the same stock in case anything major were to happen.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:27 AM #20
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joaquin386
"And I am wondering Sam if the stock from seedsman is originally from you"

I do not know what any seed seller sells, ask them if it is my varieties or if I made the seeds.
Remember I suggest real Original Haze for breeding, not commercial crops, you may be lucky and find a real keeper for production, but the odds are low. Just try and cross the best you find X your favorite varieties, and you will find lots of keepers.

-SamS
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