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Shatter keeps turning to butter mid-purge

BunnyBuds

New member
Hi!

So I've been experimenting a while now and have gotten some delicious crumble and shatter.

I've been having little portions of my shatter slabs turn into butter!!!
It goes from being clear and amber to opaque and more brown.

I don't think I can be burning it, I'm only at 100 in the vacuum oven.
I'm pulling a full vacuum...

The butter started approximately 15-16 hours after we put it in the oven. It's not the whole slab, but just little areas.

I'm just a little confused why this keeps happening?

I was thinking possibly the heat inside the chamber isn't staying consistent, so I was going to get a granite slab to keep a nice constant heat in there.

Any ideas??

I took it out after 8 hours to check for butane, still a little cracking so I put it back in and then the butter a few hours later. Did I just pass the point at which all my butane was purge and just started cooking?

Help! My shatter is suffering :yoinks:
 

BunnyBuds

New member
Pictures

Pictures

Here's some pictures... IMG_5594.jpg

IMG_5593.jpg
 

prune

Active member
Veteran
Usually that's water contamination that causes those spots. try putting a foil or plastic wrap "lid" between the water and your pyrex to eliminate condensation as a source of moisture.
 
What I do to avoid autobuddering is ensure:
Dry Material
Lowest Temps possible, but without moisture. Meaning no Freezers, Dry Ice.
Low Temps, I never exceed 101F in my oven.

I can usually accredit any autobuddering to Moisture, meaning like the vast vast vast majority of the time. If you have a good consistent batch please experiment with drying times and stability post-run.
 
I also noticed that you didn't mention any flipping with your slabs. Please consider these points as well:
- The more surface area the better, equating to the thinner the better.
- Do your oil a favor and flip it every 16-24 hours pending consistency, I never purge for less than 48 hours either, meaning a minimum of two flips per cycle.
 

vividavis

Member
I extract into pyrex pan in warm water bath, the water is usually around 90.

I meant what temperature is the material and butane? Not the temp of the collection chamber. If you can chill your solvent you'll pull significantly less waxes. I don't use canned butane so I'm not sure the safest/best way of cooling your cans.
 

Dab Strudel

Active member
do you scrape with a metal scraper? sometimes if you scrape too fast or you slip and create friction it will leave you with budder.. never had it happen myself but I try not to use my metal scrapers
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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There are a couple things that affect an extractions propensity to autobudder, or wax before the rest of the patty, and those are points of nucleation and water content.

The budder is ostensibly a wax and oil hydrate, formed around a point of nucleation.

Points of nucleation can be plant wax particles or even a small spec of plant material.

The less plant wax present, and the better the filtration, the less prone to auto buddering.

By definition, hydrates need water. The less water, the less budder prone.
 

Gray Wolf

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I extract into pyrex pan in warm water bath, the water is usually around 90.

If you have much humidity, a shallow pan will form an ice ring at the edge of the boiling puddle, which melts and runs into the extraction.

If you will use a deeper pan, the butane will float the moisture laden atmosphere out, so that it can't reach the evaporation line.
 

medman225

Member
If you cut out the herpies(budder) from the slab, it wont spread



lol true except when herpies is present in the rest of the oil(not everything will budder at once).. in which case ur fuccked either way...

my 2 cents doesn't mean much bro... but from the sound of it this sounds like a water contam within the oil... try freezing ur bud for atleast 24 hours(prepacked in column/tube) as well as ur butane(for anyone whos open blasting I suggest puretane its pure Nbutane for the most part, as nothing is truly pure, but its like 99% Ntane which makes it taste much better imho)....
blast OUTSIDE IMMEDIATELY after pulling from freezer, and any water present should be frozen and therefore not stripped by the butane... problem with this is, when not using a dry ice column to surround the weed/butane-laiden weed, the ice tends to melt pretty fast in normal temps and goes a tad slower in cold weather.. if its hot don't try...
ur only other alternative is to dehydrate, or let it dry out a bit(don't let it dry past like a day bro u don't want ur trichs ambering)...

like I said, as ur running open blasted oil, ur limited in how u can manipulate the situation(when running closed loop your able to extract from freshly cut and frozen buds, without picking up any of the water.. but the closed loop among other features is whats making it possible to do that and not have the entire thing auto budder...)

Has anyone ever seen the taffy/pullNsnap shatter that some people make that looks wet? it looks like some shatter that was mixed in a little water that was absorbed.. and it starts looking like clumps of small grains that if u touched it and pulled ur hand away and u left all the hash there, ud still have some moisture on ur hand from it.... I am convinced that this, along with auto budder, are batches that had extreme water contamination within the oil prior to the purge...

vac ovens will pull out some water... but not enuf(not saying ur oil is shit bro Ive made these mistakes myself, and u can still come up with nice stuff worth smoking... but obviously the more practice and help the better it will get for u) best of luck bro
 
Last edited:

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
Just want to say thanks to everyone that posted on here. Even 3 years later, I am finding myself reading this, and finally understanding my struggles. I have had only a couple batches turn into shatter, the rest would look good a few hours into the purge and then I would wake up to the whole thing, buttered/waxed up and dark brown. I am trying winterizing a failed batch right now. I have made 10 batches each of around 15g of extract so far and this mystery still plagues me. I have not thought about moisture until now so will make sure my product is very before hand, and sealed up in the freezer as well.

I always thought it was the temps but have been keeping them steady around 100-110F the last 5-6 runs. I also thought it was the quality of the material as well, or that it was ground into a powder, which I may have overground on this last run here.... or butane not cold enough, or it was purged too much or not enough before the scrape.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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Wax is a hydrate, with the grains formed around crystals, which form from points of nucleation.

Hydrate means water is present, and points of nucleation typically means wax particles or fine dust is present.

Suggest that you not grind, that you freeze the material and use subzero LPG to extract the material.
 

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
Wax is a hydrate, with the grains formed around crystals, which form from points of nucleation.

Hydrate means water is present, and points of nucleation typically means wax particles or fine dust is present.

Suggest that you not grind, that you freeze the material and use subzero LPG to extract the material.

Thanks for input Graywolf, I think Ive had a post youve helped with in the past, seems like I had some good batches and recently doing the same thing as last time and not getting clear shatter. I did do a bunch of more reading into this last night so I reached a similar conclusion as to what you have explained.

The bud I used may not have been as dry as previously, and maybe ground a litttle finer than I had intended. But its this moisture you speak of that I should try to minimize as well. Not only by drying out my product extra dry beforehand, but once its in the column that goes in the freezer it should be bagged and taped up to not allow moisture in. Ive done enough batches now (10 to 15) maybe 3 turned out like nice shatter, to know that its not a heat issue as I have gone from 95 to 115f with this happening. And I know its not an over agitating issue. I have used a variety of strains and the material is always decently trichome rich buds. But I will make the next run without breaking it downto almost powder.I am also finally trying winterizing as we speak. I have the ethanol jar in the freezer for 24 hours now. another 24 and I will strain out the waxes, and see how this stuff purges into a nice shatter sheet hopefully.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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ICMag Donor
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Thanks for input Graywolf, I think Ive had a post youve helped with in the past, seems like I had some good batches and recently doing the same thing as last time and not getting clear shatter. I did do a bunch of more reading into this last night so I reached a similar conclusion as to what you have explained.

The bud I used may not have been as dry as previously, and maybe ground a litttle finer than I had intended. But its this moisture you speak of that I should try to minimize as well. Not only by drying out my product extra dry beforehand, but once its in the column that goes in the freezer it should be bagged and taped up to not allow moisture in. Ive done enough batches now (10 to 15) maybe 3 turned out like nice shatter, to know that its not a heat issue as I have gone from 95 to 115f with this happening. And I know its not an over agitating issue. I have used a variety of strains and the material is always decently trichome rich buds. But I will make the next run without breaking it downto almost powder.I am also finally trying winterizing as we speak. I have the ethanol jar in the freezer for 24 hours now. another 24 and I will strain out the waxes, and see how this stuff purges into a nice shatter sheet hopefully.


You don't have to dry the product extra dry if it is frozen and the LPG is -30C or lower. In fact, fully desiccating the material makes it prone to dust and you lose the monoterpenes. There is also nothing left to freeze solid to keep the solvent from getting into the cells of the plant, where there are undesirables.

I prefer to run the material with about 15% or so moisture remaining, or about where the small twigs snap when bent.
 
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