The absolute best source for LED lights? Ebay?

So I've been looking at picking up some LED panels, but I'm not sure what I'm getting myself into.

I've got one source that has 7 watt Red or blue panels running about $70 each, but on ebay I see stuff that is much cheaper.

Is there a definative source for LED panels?

I'm thinking about just covering my walls in LED panels. Since they last a long time, I'm not worried about the initial investment, but I'm wanting to find the "best deal", rather than overpaying by a crapload.

What's the market like on these, and where is a good source for them?

I see some folks paying $100 or so a pop, and I'm wanting to make sure there isn't a MUCH cheaper source, and I've got a good idea there is, surely someone here must know.

The other thing, are all LEDs created equal? Assuming we just take watts into account, is any given red LED going to be as potent as the next for growing?

I'm worried about getting crappy LEDs sold as "grow lights" but that aren't as good.

So what's the deal on LEDs?

1love1earth said:

. . .I'm worried about getting crappy LEDs sold as "grow lights" but that aren't as good.

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On ebay, your fears will be realized. A friend of mine bought some for $70 on ebay. He later said that he got about the same results with a $3 cfl from Waly's.

I wouldn't use LED's for growing only thing i use LED's for is lighting up my computer case

WASTE of your money...............Tried and True is your best investment, stick with MH, HPS or enhanced HPS. As to Digital Ballasts..........still to many issues that need to be resolved before they have my blessings. read the forums on both before you get really pissed off buying a gimmick that has yet to be of proven value.

Just the humble opinion of an old timer,

TyStik
PS: Try HIDHUT for the flying saucer LED arrangement, IF you must. Good luck.\

Ty-Stik said:

WASTE of your money...............Tried and True is your best investment, stick with MH, HPS or enhanced HPS. As to Digital Ballasts..........still to many issues that need to be resolved before they have my blessings. read the forums on both before you get really pissed off buying a gimmick that has yet to be of proven value.

Just the humble opinion of an old timer,

TyStik
PS: Try HIDHUT for the flying saucer LED arrangement, IF you must. Good luck.\

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My local hydrostore has a test going in the store, LED vs HID. LED is getting its ass whooped

the main thing I saw was the current "LED lowryder grow" in the "indoor hydro" forum and that really caught my eye...

The only way I know how to compare LED to HID is by dollar amount and by watts.

Watt for watt, surely a solid LED wins out.

Dollar for dollar, I'm sure HID wins out.

Question is, exactly how good is LED? The grow going on in the indoor hydro forum looks very nice, but surely having all those arrays on only a single plant has something to do with it, and I've yet to see exactly what kind of buds a LED will grow.

Still, he's got some SERIOUS veg growth going on.

I just wanted to know more about LEDs for growing, and I realize we're right on the cusp of something BIG with LEDs, as IMO they are the future of indoor growing, I'm just not sure where we stand currently, and honestly I'm not sure how many folks here know either.

I'm also not sure if all LEDs are the same or not, $600 for the UFO is a crapload of money, and I'm sure it's marked the hell up. I mean, I've seen other places with 13w panels (65 blue and 160 red) on ebay for as low as $35 shipped each.

If I do the math, with the UFO you're paying $7.50 per watt, whereas with the ebay panels, it is $2.70 per watt. Now I'd need alot of 12" by 12" panels (5 to be exact) to equal the watts of an UFO.

The question is are there differences between LED lights? Watt for watt, will a red LED be as potent as the next?

I guess what we really need are "REAL" LED grow lights. I wonder how much a 1 watt LED costs (are the LEDs in the UFO really 1 watt each, if so that's a helluva LED lamp, there's alot of lights in that sucker)...

I mean, surely the UFO light is just a rebadged product, or at least there's a nearly identical LED product, not sold specifically for growing at a hydro shop, that costs a whole lot less.

So maybe buying LEDs now is jumping the gun by a few years, and I should stick with CMH...

I use the LEDs to supplement and results are noticable, but on their own...you better buy a SHITLOAD.

currently 1 400 watt CMH covers my room at 25 watts per sq ft.

2 of them would put me at 50 watts per sq ft, the room is 2.5ft by ~6.5ft

What I was considering is grabbing a bunch of LEDs rather than a 2nd CMH...

For the cost of a 2nd complete unit, reflector, ballast, bulb, I could get about 10 12" by 12" LED panels at 13w each from ebay...

That's 130w of LEDs, now the real question is this:

Watt for watt are all LEDs created equal? Are some "RED" LEDs better than others? Will some have a more "useable" light spectrum (mind you apples to apples, red to red, blue to blue, not mixed)?

I could also look into the "medium base" light bulb LED units, but that's going to involve more mounting, and I'm going to have to buy the sockets and mount them.

NO, all LEDs are not created equal....its the exact opposite. even LEDs made by the same man. to be the same LED s have varying differences in wattage used, the resistance created, the dominant wavelength of the LED, and other factors. because of this many LED makers "bin" their LEDs together under these varying factors and much research on the correct bin should be done before purchasing individual ones.

there is also much advancement in the efficiency of the LEDs @ wavelengths we need . an example is the cree xr blue to the cree xr-e blue went from about 20lm per watt to 170+lm per watt. (please understand lumens dont work great as measuring devices for leds due to the weighted scale, but within the same nm range they do have significance)

if you want a pre-made LED array that WILL grow mature, heavy, resin covered buds: buy a procyon 100. all the naysayers can say what they want but im high as hell off my LEDs. if you dont believe now, you will soon.

first threes are 63 days old, kept short, Jack plants and the last 2 are of a 2-week premature even shorter (18") one we took down early to celebrate a b-day and it had an ounce on it. the ones going to end should dry at near 2 oz. ea.

check the gallery as i cant post pics in thread

Hmm, 639 bucks and they only ship to the US. Any other good units other than the Procyon that aren't so expensive?

I'm looking to replace my 250w HPS with LEDs and I think I'll need 100w. The way I see it, my 250w HPS produces about 10000 PAR lumens, surely I would need 10000 lumens of LED light to match the HPS?

One other thing I'm concerned about with LEDs is that they don't emit any UV-B, so I'm thinking adding one or two UV-B LED lamps would be a good idea. I've also noticed that some LED lights also ass green and orange LEDs as they say these wavelengths are also significant in yield and resin production. I'm thinking four red 14w panels, a couple of 50 LED blue bulbs and one or two UV-B LED ulbs would give me a suitable setup to replace my HPS and would onyl draw approx 75 watts.

ANyone got any thoughts?

Are the panels and the cheap LED bulbs any good for growing with? I can get 100 LED blue or red bulbs for 12 quid. The Panels from eBay are cheap enough, but some folks have said they aren't very good due to the cheap, low power LEDs used.

Is there any point trying to grow with the current cheap 5mm LED bulbs or is it a case of having to wait until the high power Cree type LEDs get much cheaper?

One final point, cool white and warm white LED bulbs are cheap and easy to obtain, of course, they are producing a broad spectrum rather than just blue andred wavelengths, but would they work for growing ganja? I'm think that a 5w warm white LED bulb would be like a CFL only lower watter and more efficient, perhaps these cheap domestic white LED bulbs can be used instead of CFLs in a similar setup?

Something like these 68 LED warm white bulbs for 11.95 are what I'm thinking of, they draw 9 watts and produce 180,000mcd in a narrow angle. 12 of these in 3 rows of four sounds like it might be a good light, that would be a total of 2,160,000mcd, which is only 2,160 lumens, a pair of 20w CFLs produces more than that from 40w, so am I working this out wrong? When you put it like that, LED's don't look very efficient at all.

http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=9_44&products_id=279

These 198 LED 11W grow lights are really cheap - 29.95 and look pretty good, perhaps three red ones with one smaller blue lamp would replace my250w HPS?

http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=9_68&products_id=570

196 LEDs 110/220VAC LED Growing Light Bulb in E27 Base

Recommended to use with our 24, 32, 48, or 62 LEDs Blue LED Bulbs. Using a radio of 3 Red : 1 Blue, or 4 Red : 1 Blue are ideally for most of growing needed.

Spec:

* Using 196 Red LEDs per Bulb.
* Built with Cover Lens
* Working Condition: 110AC/220AC 50hz
* Power Consumption: 11Watts
* Wavenlength for LEDs: >625nm
* These Lights are not designed for 24hours a day constant on. 20Hours max per day is recommended.

OEM welcome.

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They also do a 175 LED light that has some green, blue and IV LEDs as well as red, they are not so cheap - 49.95. Perhaps one of these and two of the red ones would suit me?

http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=9_68&products_id=569

175 LEDs 110/220VAC LED Growing Light Bulb in E27 Base

Spec:

* Using 5xGreen, 10xUV, 40xBlue, 120Red LEDs per Bulb.
* Built with Cover Lens
* Working Condition: 110AC/220AC 50hz
* Power Consumption: 11Watts
* Wavenlength for LEDs: Green <530nm, UV <400nm, Blue and Red are specially pick.
* These Lights are not designed for 24hours a day constant on. 20Hours max per day is recommended.

OEM welcome.

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now to be fair, and compare HID to LED, we'd really need to take 4 of the procyon 100's and see how that lines up against a 400 watt CMH.

The power use between the two is about the same.

Only problem is that the procyon 100 seems to cost about $600.

So the question is, exactly what sort of yield would 4x procyon 100's get you, and do they sell a larger model?

$2400 is a lot of coin to spend, but again, what kind of bud can it grow? In my mind, $2400 better be at least twice as big a yield over 400 watts of CMH.

The whole point of LEDs is to save energy, by using 4 procyons you would be defeating the purpose of using LEDs.

Ganja Pasha said:

The whole point of LEDs is to save energy, by using 4 procyons you would be defeating the purpose of using LEDs.

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not persay, if they are "that damn good", 4 of them should offer an extreme yield compared to a 400 watt CMH, and if 1 unit really is as good as 400 watts of HID, 4 of them should be 1600 watts, thus energy is still being saved, in this case we've just chosen to increase the yield at the price of energy, but the original "bang for the buck" of watts per gram ratio remains the same.

The real question is this: what exactly is the watts per gram ratio of this unit?

The thing I'm seeing is that we're about 12 to 24 months away from seeing LED taking the trifecta of yield, cost, and power use. Right now you can get into the LED game, but lets be fair, for $600 I get increased cost, slightly lower yield, and much lower energy use.

Until there's a product that offers at 2 out of three, be it, cost, energy use, or yield, I'm staying out of the game. If these procyon 100's were 1/4 of the cost they are now, I'd be in for 4, and they'd have increased yield, lower power use, but still double the cost of HID (ballast, bulb reflector).

If LEDs really are where it's at, we'll see them commercially very very soon (in 12 to 24 months). Until I see a major commercial op using LEDs, that says something to me.

That said, I wonder how LED+HID would work. I've often thought about going with a LED unit such as the procyon 100 rather than a 2nd CMH unit, but I'm going to guess the procyon 100 isn't going to increase yield as much as a 2nd CMH.

That's not to say I don't believe LED is the future, I think it is.

Imagine LED units with even UVB (not sure if this is possible).

Lets say in 5 years there are LED bulbs that offer twice the output with the same energy use, and cost half of what they do now. We could literally line our walls with LEDs, a few units on the top, and a few on the side walls.

1love1earth,

the purpose is to use less watts to create the same or better results, not the other way around. but in such an experiment you would have a much larger effective coverage area, probably around three times as much (or more). so...yeah i could definitely see getting twice as much (or more).

ganja pasha,

you dont need 1000 lumens of LEDs. lumens are measured on a scale based on the eyes responce to light. greens and yellows that appear very bright to the eye are given a much higher multiplication factor when calculated than are the duller reds and blues. therefore, the lm numbers shown on LED grow lights are extremely lower.

you are right about uv-b. unless specifically made to produce light in the uv-b range, they wont. just a effect of shorter nm ranges.

try homegrownlights they have a few smaller versions.

the only issue ive seen regarding white leds is that we a need man. to make them at specific wavelengths for the whole range closer to the chlorophyll absorption charts. all the spec. graphs ive seen done on them show they are still designed w/ high green and yellow levels as compared to red and blue.

one big thing I see here http://www.homegrownlights.com/testing.html

is that they are measuring only veg growth.

Thanks for taking the time anwser stealth, I should have known that about green and yellow wavelengths, I studied the human eye at university. Makes sense now!

I think I'm going to go with three red LED bulbs and one smaller blue LED one, plus one or two small UV-B LED bulbs and maybe one small green LED bulb too, just to make sure I have the useable spectrum fully covered. I'll see what kind of results I can get from this and add more LEDs as funds allow if necessary. I think I'll have about 50w to begin with and build up to 100w eventually.

{300W(difference in wattage used) x 5years(half of expected led life) x cost of elec.@ 12/12} + ballasts & bulbs for those 5 years= a whole lot of cash. yes you spend up front but then you gain it back. hell, do it for two years and you come up ahead.

this is also part of the reason large commercial ops havent done this yet. shareholders usually want more money now than later and take convincing.

LEDs will grow you good pot. End of story.

Ppl say they suck, they cant grow weed... they can. There IS a tradeoff and its yield. Ur LED's can grow u the sticky icky but its not gonna be a donkey dick.

If you're looking for cheap/heatless lighting then go for it. There is a thread in the middle of a grow w/ LEDs here on the forum somewhere... and where it stands now this thing is a monster bush. LOOTS of ppl waitin to see the end of that one, myself included.

Check out some LED grows on youtube, one shows the yield difference vs a HPS, ive seen another that shows a nice healthy plant 12 weeks into flower.

There are many nay-sayers but its simply bcs it isnt up to their standards yet, not bcs its a useless light source.

1love1earth said:

one big thing I see here http://www.homegrownlights.com/testing.html

is that they are measuring only veg growth.

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uhh... its lettuce, its a non-flowering plant

please check my gallery for the pics youre looking for.

hey ganga,

sounds ok just try to stay above 15W/sq.ft. seems to be the magic number

also greenpinelane has many different LED grows going on and forums discussing all kinds of aspects of growing with LEDs. all should check this out.