Balancing Soil Minerals

neverforget4/20 · Oct 30, 2015

Kygiacomo!!! said:
perhaps something in "Eden's Secret" could be the crazy P numbers

Not sure about tbat. The direction suggest that liberal applications are no problem. I used about a cup for about 50 gals of media.

i am considering sendinh another sample to a different lab for comparison contrast.

thanks for your suggestion

Kygiacomo!!! · Oct 30, 2015

neverforget4/20 said:
Not sure about tbat. The direction suggest that liberal applications are no problem. I used about a cup for about 50 gals of media.

i am considering sendinh another sample to a different lab for comparison contrast.

thanks for your suggestion

ya im not sure either bro just throwing out a ideal as to what the high P could be. it will be interesting to see the next report if u do have it tested. gl bro hope u sort it out

Humphry Davy · Oct 31, 2015

I can't even read you soil report, the way you wrote the numbers is confusing, if you just write in this fashion:

Ca (lb/acre) 5,024

Zn (ppm) 20

I could at least interpret it.

milkyjoe · Oct 31, 2015

Make sure to use a lab that uses mehlich 3. It is impossible for me to judge those numbers in the absence of a tcec or stated method.

I really like Logan Labs myself...not saying others don't work though

mack 10 · Nov 1, 2015

Humphry Davy said:
I can't even read you soil report, the way you wrote the numbers is confusing, if you just write in this fashion:

Ca (lb/acre) 5,024

Zn (ppm) 20

I could at least interpret it.

Yeah, I don't get it either.

The ratio per acre is a bit hard to quantify
Ppm would be easier for me to understand.

trichrider · Nov 1, 2015

http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-Soil-20...TF8&qid=1441807755&sr=1-1&keywords=ideal+soil

currently unavailable

neverforget4/20 · Nov 3, 2015

Thanks for trying to decypher that jumbled format report.

This is legible. Appreciate your thoughts.

The Morgan Extract was used to obtain these values.

vitamingreeninc · Nov 4, 2015

So adding the ideal mineral mix kit to let's say 33% Peat, 33% perlite, 33% compost would be enough for a water only grow it seems like?

leadsled · Nov 4, 2015

vitamingreeninc said:
So adding the ideal mineral mix kit to let's say 33% Peat, 33% perlite, 33% compost would be enough for a water only grow it seems like?

Yes, that is correct.

leadsled · Nov 4, 2015

Excellent thread. Thanks m_astera!
Here is a logan labs report on Santuary Soil Empire Builder.
http://sanctuarysoil.com/2011/empire-builder/

The owner of the company uses your book and claimed that I would get the best logan labs test out of any bagged soil.

Told a friend this statement and he decided to try it out.

Looks to not be balanced, excess p k and not enough calcium, and lacking traces. Sulfur and sodium are also high. Medium is coco coir and have seen the coco needing a flush due to excess salts.

Have you found any bagged soils or pre-made potting mixes to be balanced??

Kygiacomo!!! · Nov 4, 2015

leadsled said:
Yes, that is correct.

hey lead i was wondering the same thing. that if i use this ideal soil mix to reamend my living soil from last year along with some new EWC and compost i can also do water only till harvest correct? i posted my soil mix above that i used this year..thanks

neverforget4/20 · Nov 4, 2015

leadsled said:
Yes, that is correct.

Bro wondering how you would be sure about that advice without having an analysis of the compost???

leadsled · Nov 4, 2015

neverforget4/20 said:
Bro wondering how you would be sure about that advice without having an analysis of the compost???

Thanks for pointing that out. because the compost part is super important.

Let me go into more detail. Why yes still applies.

As to not steer someone wrong.

because odds are with 1/3 compost you will have an excess of K. IF you used ewc you would be better off.

I should not assume the person will get quality compost and/or amend it.

But still yes if that end result is balance, you can use water only and grow a plant to harvest. many do without testing the soil look as los as an example of water only.

But if you mix that above up and then follow directions and test the soil. You will see what to add.

ime, 1/3 compost will make an unbalanced soil that has an excess of potassium.

It may not turn out great if the soil is not balanced. The biology is not active and the compost is not balanced.

But basically yes water only is what many people pull off.

does that automatically mean you will have a, top shelf high yielding pest and disease free crop of your dreams. NO

Maybe I should reword that to say. Possibly. Many people do water only to finish.

As long as you account for the above and use a large enough volume of soil you can off a water only grow. Look at screws thread as one example. he did not even test the soil.

That is the whole point of the balanced soil based off the book. Water only. If you test the inputs and amend. Yes water only.
Optimally to achieve max yield and quality
you will feed the soil and use molasses and fish or some other food source.

With all due respect.

vitamingreeninc · Nov 4, 2015

leadsled said:
Thanks for pointing that out. because the compost part is super important.

Let me go into more detail. Why yes still applies.

As to not steer someone wrong.

because odds are with 1/3 compost you will have an excess of K. IF you used ewc you would be better off.

I should not assume the person will get quality compost and/or amend it.

But still yes if that end result is balance, you can use water only and grow a plant to harvest. many do without testing the soil look as los as an example of water only.

But if you mix that above up and then follow directions and test the soil. You will see what to add.

ime, 1/3 compost will make an unbalanced soil that has an excess of potassium.

It may not turn out great if the soil is not balanced. The biology is not active and the compost is not balanced.

But basically yes water only is what many people pull off.

does that automatically mean you will have a, top shelf high yielding pest and disease free crop of your dreams. NO

Maybe I should reword that to say. Possibly. Many people do water only to finish.

As long as you account for the above and use a large enough volume of soil you can off a water only grow. Look at screws thread as one example. he did not even test the soil.

That is the whole point of the balanced soil based off the book. Water only. If you test the inputs and amend. Yes water only.
Optimally to achieve max yield and quality
you will feed the soil and use molasses and fish or some other food source.

With all due respect.

I apologize, I didn't not make the situation clear enough so that you could know what to recommend. I will be doing 1/2 compost 1/2 EWC. Thanks though, I just needed that push because I already know it will work just fine

neverforget4/20 · Nov 4, 2015

good info thanks bud.

i go easy on the molasses. There is about 500mg of K in a tablespoon of blackstrap, pretty sure. Im thinking that its better to have active biology consuming minerals rather than slacking on an easy carbon source like BSM.

milkyjoe · Nov 4, 2015

It is best to test that mix completely unamended and find out exactly where you are. Then you can add minerals based on actual results vs wild ass assumptions. Better yet test each component of the soils cec...peat, compost and ewc and base % s on those numbers. Chances are...not saying definite but would place a bet...you are going to be high on P and K before you even start amending.

And the quality of the organic matter is another story...how much of it is humic matter is what I would be curious about

When you test get c:n ratios...don't bother with the paste test

leadsled · Nov 4, 2015

Kygiacomo!!! said:
hey lead i was wondering the same thing. that if i use this ideal soil mix to reamend my living soil from last year along with some new EWC and compost i can also do water only till harvest correct? i posted my soil mix above that i used this year..thanks

Please post up the test results from your soil.

Hope I am not hijacking the thread at all, Only trying to help based off my experience with soil balancing.

I looked back in the thread and your mix, Looks like the los mix from build a soil.

I saw the recent test from logan labs on the oly mountain compost used and the final mix. Was super high in sodium, and excess potassium. Also was lacking in trace minerals.

If you do not have the test, say so. I can post up the buildasoil test. Happy to share what can be improved.

Always a good idea to ask mastera as well. I paid him for a soil RX before and it was worth it.

But first, please do not re-amend without testing. And do not yet add more compost! that could really throw things out of balance as far as potassium.

I have done water only and done fine.
I have also added inputs to help feed the biology. fish, humic, molasses, etc

I used the tools like soil testing and brix and sap testing to help me better determine what to do until the biology is going.

Do you have to do any of that to grow a plant. NO.

All depends on your level of interest and wanting to know what is going down and try to optimize things.

Would not hurt feeding the biology in the soil.

A plant will grow with just water and care. An old growth redwood forest does not get fertilized.

But you also are not growing in soil that has had thousands of years to grow and balance itself out by biology.

Large volume of soil relative to the plants size. Tested and balanced. Yes, water only will work.
Lots of factors to optimize your grow. Little bit more inputs will help in my experience.

Hope that helps cover your question.

Trying to stay on topic of soil balancing and testing.

leadsled · Nov 4, 2015

neverforget4/20 said:
good info thanks bud.

i go easy on the molasses. There is about 500mg of K in a tablespoon of blackstrap, pretty sure. Im thinking that its better to have active biology consuming minerals rather than slacking on an easy carbon source like BSM.

Thanks, Excellent information coming from you as well. Love it.

Agreed. Good point. I gotta watch what I say if I do not give all the exact details with it. Gotta read labels analyze ingredients and how that effects balance.

Makes me think about how someone may then end up use molasses at every watering at 1tbsp + per gallon.

Makes me think more about WHY the water only recommendation is pretty safe.

vitamingreeninc said:
I apologize, I didn't not make the situation clear enough so that you could know what to recommend. I will be doing 1/2 compost 1/2 EWC. Thanks though, I just needed that push because I already know it will work just fine

No worries, thanks for sharing. The more details the better. They matter.

May still be high in K.
Best best is following milkyjoes advice.

Will cost more and be more time consuming but will end up for the best.

milkyjoe said:
It is best to test that mix completely unamended and find out exactly where you are. Then you can add minerals based on actual results vs wild ass assumptions. Better yet test each component of the soils cec...peat, compost and ewc and base % s on those numbers. Chances are...not saying definite but would place a bet...you are going to be high on P and K before you even start amending.

And the quality of the organic matter is another story...how much of it is humic matter is what I would be curious about

When you test get c:n ratios...don't bother with the paste test

Excellent advice as always! Thanks for sharing.

Kygiacomo!!! · Nov 4, 2015

leadsled said:
Please post up the test results from your soil.

Hope I am not hijacking the thread at all, Only trying to help based off my experience with soil balancing.

I looked back in the thread and your mix, Looks like the los mix from build a soil.

I saw the recent test from logan labs on the oly mountain compost used and the final mix. Was super high in sodium, and excess potassium. Also was lacking in trace minerals.

If you do not have the test, say so. I can post up the buildasoil test. Happy to share what can be improved.

Always a good idea to ask mastera as well. I paid him for a soil RX before and it was worth it.

But first, please do not re-amend without testing. And do not yet add more compost! that could really throw things out of balance as far as potassium.

I have done water only and done fine.
I have also added inputs to help feed the biology. fish, humic, molasses, etc

I used the tools like soil testing and brix and sap testing to help me better determine what to do until the biology is going.

Do you have to do any of that to grow a plant. NO.

All depends on your level of interest and wanting to know what is going down and try to optimize things.

Would not hurt feeding the biology in the soil.

A plant will grow with just water and care. An old growth redwood forest does not get fertilized.

But you also are not growing in soil that has had thousands of years to grow and balance itself out by biology.

Large volume of soil relative to the plants size. Tested and balanced. Yes, water only will work.
Lots of factors to optimize your grow. Little bit more inputs will help in my experience.

Hope that helps cover your question.

Trying to stay on topic of soil balancing and testing.

hey bro thanks i dont have a soil test. im a guerilla grower and this was my first time trying organics,but i had some awesome results and from here on out im gonna be growing my headstash the organic way. i did almost water only this year. i just fed bat guano and insect frass ever 2 weeks in flower and im very satisifed. im gonna try his mix this year and see whats up. i will be using worm power ewc,and coast of maine lobster compost.

Humphry Davy · Nov 5, 2015

For the 1:1:1 soil mix, if following cootz recipe I would add everything except the crab shell, gypsum, and maybe leave out the neem until you do a soil test, the rock dust and kelp are not going to add significant amounts of available minerals but they do add those ultra trace minerals that are not tested for on a standard soil test.

I use 1:1:1:1 of top soil, compost, peat moss, and rice hulls. I have a good local source of plant based compost, if I did not have quality compost I would drop the compost to 10% of the mix and increase the top soil. I use top soil mostly for the clay content, but I test my top soil source prior to purchase just as I do the compost. It's also important, if you're testing your top soil prior to purchase, to ensure the top soil company is sourcing all their top soil from a single source rather than whatever construction site has top soil to move.

As for testing, I wouldn't leave out the paste test, it's not much more money and tells you a lot about what antagonisms you're having in the soil and what you may want to foliar feed during the grow until the excess and/or pH are slowly corrected. Some minerals can be leached out of the soil if there is an excess however some can not be leached as effectively.

Balancing Soil Minerals

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