What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

The search for a proper recovery pump..

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So I am investigating alternate affordable recovery unit options. As we all know, the G5 works but is not quite built to last, and Appion does not support our kind. Although I am not sure there will be many other manufacturers who do, I am certian that there is a better preforming, more durable oiless unit out there that is capable of running R600. I already have several units on my list and plan to get in touch with the manufacturers tomorrow to find out the materials of all the components of each. I know Teflon, Viton, and nylon components are a plus, what other materials are suitable for contact with butane? 100% resistance is a must, as well as the capability to pull a deep vacuum. What other features/capabilities should we be looking for? Thanks to anyone who can provide some input, I know it will hugely benefit the closed loop community to find a proper non disposable recovery pump. [/FONT]
 

Ioni Botani

Member
Hokay. In search of a replacement as well, as I constantly need to know the best options for my caregivers.

Here are the better options I've found..

:::The Pneumatics:::

First, upon Googling "R600 Recovery Pump" I find these bad boys...

The Galaxair

"...liquid phase and gas phase whose vapour tension
does not exceed 15 bar with 20°C."

Which (I believe) is similar to the one GW suggests..

The Haskel

I like the Haskel... Both of these require a pretty badass compressor.. Which needs to be included in to the cost/wear analysis etc..

Next we have

:::The Electric Motor Driven:::

The obvious first option.. I have heard these AREN'T oilless? Also, it doesn't specifically list R600.

The Caresaver

Next is one I found through the grapevine.
I have heard about Emotek incorporating a new pump, similar to this one, in their new model.

Until they have one available to the public, I introduce our next option

The Reftec Handivac

I've heard claims the seals are Teflon (have yet to double check) and it's oilless, operating at .75hp. They make custom units and have some that are "built to NEMA 7 Code with explosion proof electrical box, wiring, piping and motor housing"

Weeee! I hope the experts will chime in on this one!!
 
I know reftec makes some all in one units that are pneumatic. That is what emotek is working on with reftec.

The caresaver isn't oilless, but maybe using a cold trap after the recovery pump might help along with filtration?

The handivac isn't up to the rigors of what we do
 

cyphaman

Member
cheaper alternatives thanks to GrayWolf http://www.cpsproducts.com/product/recovery-equipment-tr21/

I am curious about this myself, as I thought r-600a was what we were looking for for solvent handling capabilities. I am looking for a recovery system for Distilling my Butane and storing in LP5.

Maybe this would be a bit better with the over flow protection? I heard this was necessary regardless of which recovery pump you are using. Any insight would be helpful.

http://www.cpsproducts.com/product/recovery-machine-equipment-TRA21/
 

Ioni Botani

Member

Yes, I saw how quickly these ran with GW.. Still not listed as R600 compliant.

Anyhow on the Emotek rant...
This thing doesn't look like a pneumatic recovery pump.

https://www.facebook.com/emoteklabs...4276200647408/607336919341333/?type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/emoteklabs...4276200647408/605337036207988/?type=1&theater

It looks like a modified version of the HandiVac or similar.

EDIT Read the comments..
"Emotek Labs - That pump is for testing joe..."
 
the cps tr-21 isn't any better than the appion.

Emotek is using a variety of recovery pumps with limited success. They are working with reftec on a pneumatic pump, but I'm unsure of the details. Possibly a detuned setup that doesn't require the power like the haskel.
 

icdog

Member
Has anyone besides GW tried the Haskel?

Are the Galaxair and the Haskel basically the same?
 

cyphaman

Member
Right on so recovery machines rated for r600 are super pricey then? like several thousands of dollars?

Thanks icdog & IB, those links are solid.. I think those Welsch pumps were vacuum pumps that can handle butane and other harsh solvents in a lab setting, and then the recovery machines convert liquid solvents back to gas or vice versa I believe.

I was hoping that something under $1000 could be picked up for R600 recovery, ie Distilling Butane.
 
anything under a grand is going to have a finite life. consider a cost of doing business. pneumatics are a great way to go if you are doing volume, have the power requirements, and the money.

I doubt we are ever going to see anything that is reasonably price and butane certified.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I just ordered a couple Gast DAA-501P-GB 1/2 horse two cylinder diaphragm pumps for trials.

I think that Ricks Bong smacked the nail on the head with the observation that none of the oil less recovery pumps tolerate running dry for extended periods, so we should think outside the box and design a system that does.

I will recovery from the pots and columns using the Gast, which will run all day at -20"Hg, but won't always produce enough pressure on the discharge side to put it back in the original storage tank.

I will discharge it into a 50# storage tank, and when that tanks pressure reaches 20 psi, I will turn on the oil less refrigerant pump and pump it back down to 0/5psi, so as to always keep the oil less lubricated.

PS: Both Eden Labs and Apeks use Haskel pneumatic refrigerant pumps for hydrocarbons.

I also checked out a smaller pump that ostensibly would put smiles on our face in a larger configuration, but the company didn't make a larger one and wanted $60K for a 5 prototype run and $500K for testing and certification.

After that, if I ordered 2000 units, I could have them at $1500 each, sooooooo, as hard as it is to imagine, I declined.

It is a solenoid, with the center plunger being the piston. The switching magnetic field cycles the piston and simple check valves make a pump out of it. No doubt it still doesn't like being run dry either............
 
Last edited:

icdog

Member
Those welch pumps won't work? I don't know enough to figure it out, one section said it did solvent degassing.

Is the Haskel simple to use, it looks totally different? A simple 10hp compressor is all that is needed?
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
The Haskel is two pneumatic cylinders, with a common shaft. When you cycle one back and forth with air, it moves the other piston back and forth in its cylinder, which has two check valves that turn it into a pump.

You have an air connection, and an intake for the vapors, plus one for discharge. Three point connection.

Read their clean air requirements, and plan on a refrigerative drier, an air receiver for moisture drop out, and a coalescing filter to clean up the air from the compressor.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Those welch pumps won't work? I don't know enough to figure it out, one section said it did solvent degassing.

Is the Haskel simple to use, it looks totally different? A simple 10hp compressor is all that is needed?

The Welsh pumps might work as an interim stage, such as I'm going to use the Gast pumps for.

You need 40 scfm of clean air for maximum performance, which means a refrigerative drier, a receiver, and a coalescing filter to clean up the air.
 

Breakover

Member
I spoke with Bacharach a while back. They told me they were pretty sure there was going to be a recovery pump built for our collective needs, with automatic vacuum/pressure trip points similar to the Caresaver, etc within the year.

Sit tight, things are changing quickly.
 

Ioni Botani

Member
If someone was creating a proprietary design for our community (which I believe they are) they would be dumb not to turn a profit off that baby, if not to cover R&D costs alone. Whoever designs this thing could have one in every lab...
 
There is turning a profit and ripping people off. Until it is legal in more than a couple states, I doubt you will see it happen as the lawyers have final say over the engineers
and it is a liability and legality issue
 

dybert

Active member
The Haskel is two pneumatic cylinders, with a common shaft. When you cycle one back and forth with air, it moves the other piston back and forth in its cylinder, which has two check valves that turn it into a pump.

You have an air connection, and an intake for the vapors, plus one for discharge. Three point connection.

Read their clean air requirements, and plan on a refrigerative drier, an air receiver for moisture drop out, and a coalescing filter to clean up the air from the compressor.

We will be upgrading from the Caresaver to the Haskell pump sometime in the future but like you said, there is some infrastructure required for running it.


We currently run 3 supercritical extractors, so we have the air supply dialed in just fine. But like you said, there is a lot of equipment involved in providing the "proper" air supply to these types of pumps.
 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top