Welcome, questions, requests and off-topic posting

maree · Jul 6, 2012

Hi Verdant - you may remember me from earlier posts on your grows which I followed with some interest. Back now after a year or so enforced hiatus - family responsibilities - and wondering how on earth you actually make a purchase from seed bay from both the commercial and small vendors like yourself. I know this isn't eh sort of question that should be asked here but hoping you're not too busy to take five and explain.

cheers man.

VerdantGreen · Jul 6, 2012

thanks everyone for the kind words!

maree, hello again!, you have to log onto seedbay.com and register. then if you hit browse and look down the categories you will see 'private breeders'. many are listed as a 'buy it now' price.
after you've 'bought' the item you have to print out an order form and send i in with the money - as cash or postal order. then they send you the seeds and usually some great freebies.
i think thats it, someone will correct me if i've missed anything.

VG

maree · Jul 6, 2012

Ta very much Mr.V!

944s2 · Jul 6, 2012

thanks vg, good luck,i look forward to ordering some of your feminized beans,please give us a shout when available,once again congrats and good luck peace and safe growing s2

ganja_hasi · Jul 6, 2012

congrats VG, wishing you nothing but only the best good man

D9_THC · Jul 7, 2012

VG, you are one of the true treasures of icmag!

maree · Jul 16, 2012

Hi Verdant - wanted to ask you (yet another) question as a long time grower and now breeder of mj. Why can't seed companies ensure the stability of their strains before releasing them? Is it just not a credible thing to do with mj or are financial and other reasons too pressing? Now you've had some experience, perhaps you can hazard an answer. When I buy carrot seeds from Mr. Fothergill there's no need to warn me that some may turn out to be all leaf and no carrot, or some of my carrots may be pink or taste like baked beans. If I put in an orange climbing rose I can be pretty sure the flowers are not gonna be pink, it's not gonna turn into a bush instead or that the flowers will smell like turps. Most "strains" hardly seem to warrant the name. When a large seed company advertises proudly that you should get one keeper out of a bag of ten, that seems like an admission of failure to me. Of course, not all variables, like seed vigour, are possible to control but shouldn't we be getting what we're sold? What do you think? And which company, in your experience,provides the most stable lines in general?

ps I'm gonna have a pop at your pips when I get a chance.

SeaMaiden · Jul 16, 2012

I'm not VG and won't presume to know his mind or try to make his answers for him, but this carrot analogy you're using is good because it really demonstrates the very real difficulties of trying to create a variety or line that breeds true when it's a criminal act to do so.

When breeders can grow by the acre, using hundreds, if not thousands of plants from which to make their breeding selections, we might be able to get seeds that remain true to form just like other fruits and vegetables and all other plant commodities we use.

BTW, seedling vigor is one of the easiest aspects to control IF you understand what makes it vigorous in the first place.

FirstTracks · Jul 16, 2012

you had me at Bubba.....

Congrats on the new subforum VG :wave:

VerdantGreen · Jul 16, 2012

maree, good question!, i agree with what seamaiden said... and i also think it would be good if breeders were realistic and honest about what one might find in a pack of their seeds....
the only seeds that are likely to be stable (as in all uniform) would be landraces/inbred lines or 'proper' F1's (i.e. first generation crosses of two stable lines) - but even then some ibls will have been selected to retain a degree of variation and that can be a good thing imo.
some of the lines i might offer in the future are likely to be offered at the F2 stage, and they by their very nature should show all the degrees of variation between the two original parents that made the F1 - but this isnt necessarily a bad thing as it gives a grower a choice of what they wants to keep, and indeed what they want to use to continue the line to F3's. also if one of the original parents is an 'elite' cut, then you might have the best chance of finding a pheno amongst the f2's that closely resembles that elite.
some crosses, like a cross of two hybrids, will always show lots of variation and is unlikely to ever be stabilised into a line, but then again a grower that is just looking for a 'keeper' pheno to monocrop wont mind that as long as they find the keeper they want.

so i guess the seed companies should give an honest appraisal of what peeps might find in their seeds and then they could make an informed choice.

there arent really that many stable ibls being offered these days. i would look at TomHill's offerings or find a skunk or similar if thats what you want.... but a word of caution, stability can also go hand in hand with lack of vigor - something called 'inbreeding depression'

of course im no expert but thats my take on it

VG

maree · Jul 16, 2012

Good answer VG! Brought back the Gregor Mendel and "hybrid vigour" of my o level biology days. And of course you're right, both about the genetics and about the fun and personal choice to be exercised as a result of variation. Just a bit of a pain when all you want is four tidy plants from four tidy seeds in one go to get a nice bit of bramble for yourself. For me, one small crop - and I mean small - if relatively uniform, will give me sufficient twig for between nine months and a year. The process of selection and keeping mothers, while I can imagine it being a completely absorbing hobby, then becomes an onerous job/risk when there are plenty of other things to be responsible for. I guess we all look for the method which best suits us and our lives.

Maybe I'll knuckle down or maybe I'll check out Tom Hill, as you advise Mr V.

Seamaiden - good point too. I guess my outlook predisposes me to judge commercial enterprises (unlike VG's and others which I consider more "artisan") harshly. On your last point, I didn't mean influence over how vigorously any given seed grows cos I can see how you can influence that - but it's inherited, genetic potential for growth. Analogy - I could have trained, got the right nutrition, etc. from birth and never run as fast as Bolt. Although I would certainly have made myself a bit nippier than I am, I don't have the natural abilities he does. If it's the latter sort you meant then please fill me in!

Anyway, if you're not too frustrated with all the guidance - I joined seedbay - there doesn't happen to be a uk version that I'm missing does there? I know of seedboutique but have read so many scare stories, don't know whether to order form them or not - any opinion? I'd love to get hold of some BOG seeds and these are the only two places I can find them from searching.

VerdantGreen · Jul 19, 2012

hey maree, seedboutique and seedbay are pretty much the same company but different shopfronts as it were. both are considered very reliable and are based in the UK, so you should be fine ordering off them.

perhaps if you dont want variation you should try running 1 plant at a time, vegging it a bit bigger and then lst/training it to keep the height down?

to get uniform plants the best way to go is look for proper f1's that are two stable lines crossed together... then you get the hybrid vigor but also more uniform offspring

VG

botany · Jul 27, 2012

Hi VG,
I've been on these forums for quite some time now (maybe 6 or 7 years on and off) and I remember your grows in the micro forums.

These days I spend of my time lurking. life happens you know, various reasons why I guy can't just grow his ass off ALL THE TIME. Girlfriends, Money issues, family issues. You name it.

Anyway, sorry to ramble, but GOOD LUCK on the seeds bro, I will DEFINITELY be considering your line up!

Keep us posted!

maree · Jul 28, 2012

VerdantGreen said:
hey maree, seedboutique and seedbay are pretty much the same company but different shopfronts as it were. both are considered very reliable and are based in the UK, so you should be fine ordering off them.

perhaps if you dont want variation you should try running 1 plant at a time, vegging it a bit bigger and then lst/training it to keep the height down?

to get uniform plants the best way to go is look for proper f1's that are two stable lines crossed together... then you get the hybrid vigor but also more uniform offspring

VG

Been pondering your advice for a few days and have some putative plans of action.

Have been using a couple of scrog styles and other micro techniques largely gleaned from, or inspired by, icmag members but with a few small plants - running one bigger one sounds good. Have always felt that age was a factor (ie a longer veg time) in producing a fully rounded smoke and this is a useful way forward for me.

with regard to strains, have been tempted by Real Seed Company stock for some time and, in due course, will invest in something from them and, possibly, taskenti, from canna biogen as well as running some more variable strains. But I'll also be a little more patient, take my time, and build myself a little collection of bonzai mothers, which I'll sustain over the year regardless of immediate need and extra hassle. No pain, no gain.

I might even further downsize, use a weetabix box and the light off my son's led keyring (joke - but going smaller but more often for variety's sake might be an idea - a change is as good as a rest).

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to help, man, it's good of you.

VerdantGreen · Aug 7, 2012

hey maree,
thats pretty much what i do, i try and keep cuttings of all the plants i grow, and then keep them as mums if i think it's worth it (usually not but you cant tell untill you've been smoking it for a few weeks. i use an old kitchen wall cupboard with two 'eco' style t5's in there and ive plumbed it into my other cabs so the ventilation passes through it.
i can keep up to about a dozen mums under 42w of light quite easily, but usually i keep around half a dozen in there and sometimes use it for vegging as well. often i dont use cuts from a mum for months but they;re still there when i want them. you have to be fairly ruthless though and not try to keep everything forever!

VG

wildgrow · Aug 12, 2012

Congrats VG! Are you still growing in that trash bin/ LED setup? Did you just go ahead and flower in it anyway? Cant wait to see what you drop on us. cheers

VerdantGreen · Aug 12, 2012

hey wildgrow, thanks, yeah the bin grow is in my sig. i got well over an ounce from a 28w light which was cool. the real reason i made that bin was to flower out males though... and that should be happening real soon. i need to reverse another bubba to get pollen and make more seeds ( i have one seeded plant atm but no idea how many seeds it will yield, maybe none, maybe hundreds )

ive also popped a dozen or so of my Cherryjuana cross (herijuana x Cherry bomb maui ibl) and am going to make the first batch of f2's.

VG

mellowfellow · Aug 22, 2012

The bubba kush s1's you have look fantastic! The cherryjuana sound interesting.

Maybe you consider crossing the cherry bomb ibl to bubba.

Any which way I wish you the best.

VerdantGreen · Aug 22, 2012

hey mf, thanks, ive already crossed the CB to the bubba, in fact ive crossed it it quite a few things including Chem D, sour diesel and other elites. the cross with bubba didnt come out as well as the cherryjuana (CB crossed with herijuana) which is a similar genetic mix i think,
The cherryjuana is a really potent but also happy and introspective smoke.

My plan is to, eventually, do a 'regular' seed (not feminised) bubba line but i havent found the right outcross yet. Deep chunk was a little too dominant over the bubba and i wasnt convinced by the CB either. i have a couple of other outcrosses that im testing atm
as soon as i find one that i think is right i will back-cross it to the bubba cut.

VG

mellowfellow · Aug 23, 2012

Sounds delightful. All the best to you.

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