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Grow room 4.0. 5.0? Idk. New grow room.

Zarezhu

Member
Hey beautiful people!

So my equipment has been sitting in storage for roughly a year. It's time to put it to some use! Things including 24kbtu minisplit, dehu, co2 tanks/controller, 1kw DE setups.

Purchased an 8 x 22 x 6.5 enclosed trailer.

Now, theres obviously limited headroom. So I'll likely use my 1kw DE's turned down to 50% until I figure out my new lights; I'm leaning towards 5 new 600w setups (SE or DE, unsure) running the length of each table/wall(3'x16'). My other option would be LEDs running the full lengths of the tables.

For 2-3 months, it will be strictly a veg/clone room. Possibly even a permanent nursery. Much easier to sell clones/teens than it is to sell flower nowadays.

Insulated the FUCK out of it using 1" foam insulation boards. Roof, ceiling, floor, all insulated/taped.

Made a utility room (5x8) and a main room (16x8). Going to get a sparky to take care of the electrical in the next week.

The main plan is to keep the walkway down the center of the room, and make a 3x16' table on either side of the room. This would allow for roughly 5 600w per side of the room, either LED or conventional lights.

If I make it a flower room, I may just make the 3x16 trays into soil beds. I've grown in coco before, with mixed results. Soil beds would be very easy to keep good yields and fairly great quality flower.

If the veg/clone bizz goes fantastic, I'll keep it a nursery.

Any thoughts? Chime in guys, I'm open to new ideas.

I'll post pics in the next few days,

Have a wonderful day yall.
 

Drop That Sound

Well-known member
Hey man! On wheels is the way to go, good plan.

1 inch is only like R-6, and is what most travel trailers/rv's have in the walls. I wish I would have added an extra inch of it to my trailer... at least in the main flower room.

I already had the 1 inch behind the paneling, then added a layer of reflectix with an air gap ( more for reflection and looks than anything), but will probably redo everything in the main room and add another 1/2 to 1" of foam panels eventually.

Are you going to park in a garage or be outside? If outside I would go for 2 inches of insulation while you still can. I regret not doing it now myself.
 

Drop That Sound

Well-known member
Wonder.. can double ended fixtures be converted into dual 500w single ended bulb fixtures, and spread out? That would be better than dimming them to 50%.. Seems like the splitter is already built in? I know you can buy y splitters to run two 600's off a 1000....


Oh ya and another idea, maybe use two 3x16" corrugated PVC/Plastic roof panels on each side of the walkway, instead of plumbing multiple tables. Put the reserviors and plumbing for each roof panel table on the other side of the wall in the utility room where it stays cool. Give the new super wide table\panels a slight slope, up a few inches at the the very back of the main room and down toward the utility room wall where the drains are.

Not just 16' wide drain tables, but if you bent the sides up some and covered with panda film, they could act like an NFT system if you wanted too.
 
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ReeferDan

Member
Very interested to see how this develops!
As stated above, corrugated plastic roofing DTW tables in custom sizes are clutch. Im building a new room right now and i went with these since its kind of a non standard layout, and i wanted to maximize the usable space.

Anyways, pulling up a chair, always love to see how someone sets up, and steal/emulate some of the clean ideas they have to improve my own space.

ReeferDan
 

Itsmychoice

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Just run at night

Just run at night

I have a couple of the cmh 630 bulbs going in de fixtures. The plants under cmh are finishing nicer in the other room. Some of those timber led cob kits are pretty nice.
 

repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Wow, a trailer, what a killer idea!

I think most critical aspect will be wheather proofing it, take your time to invest on that properly!

I'd give SILs a try, specially for the nursery area.

They're great for flowering, but you should think as if they were mini HPS, i.e. you should use training to get horizontal canopies to optimize yields. There's also a great sinergy between SILs and canopy management when you dispose them in a grid-like fashion, aiming for homogeneous light intensity at canopy level.

SILs are unexpensive, extremely flexible and low-heat.
 

Zarezhu

Member
@dropthatsound-

Sounds like you re-purposed a travel trailer into a grow room? I was looking at travel trailers myself. They're usually a little cheaper than enclosed trailers, and wouldnt look suspicious with a 2ton minisplit mounted on the tongue. I would have had to gut the whole thing. I only decided to get an enclosed trailer (Car hauler type) because I found a great deal on it, and there was much less work involved.

My trailer wasn't insulated. It had plywood walls on the inside, corrugated aluminum on the outside. 1" metal frame on the inside. I chose to put 1" foam board (the kind with a white side and a reflective side) on the inside because after I cut each piece to size, it was a perfect fit and was completely flush with the 1" frame/ribs.

I wasnt aware the r value is so low on foam board. I'll take a look and see how easy it would be to add another inch to the walls and ceiling.

I do plan on parking it outside, under a carport/canopy. It does get hot AF here in the summer. If I'm blooming and running the lights at night, it shouldnt really be a problem, but for the sake of efficiency, I'll see about adding more insulation.

I have been considering using 3x16' corrugated panels for the tables, but I'm slightly leary. Im not sure how strong they are. My worry is that if I ended up with a ton of wet/freshly watered pots on top of them, they might flatten? Soil+water gets pretty heavy, but idk. I'd likely max out at 1g pots, 1 per sq. foot, maybeeee 2 gallons, but again- limited headroom.


@Reefer- Ill get some pics up for ya shortly.

@mychoice- Id like to run 630w CMH throughout the room, but it would just be a massive expense and would put me above the max amperage for the entire trailer. I'd like to reuse some of my current ballasts/lights, but if I need new lights, I need new lights.

I doubt the 630w cmh bulbs are compatible with my 1000w dimmable DE's that I currently have. hmm.

I did a quick google search of the cob kits, and damnnn are they expensive. I dont really understand what they are and what makes them worth it, but it would be a pretty penny to outfit the entire room with em.

@repuk- Thanks man =] Ive already sealed the FUCK out of the outside of the trailer. Rain/water should NOT be able to work its way inside. The inside has a tight seal as well. The foam boards wedged perfectly between my metal studs, and I taped each seam just for extra good measure.

I dont exactly know what SIL lights are, but I'll try to give that thread a read. Im leaning towards making the trailer a permanent flower room (in a few months, when people dont need outdoor starters any more). Id either run a SOG, 4 clones per sq. foot of canopy, or a SOG in 1g pots and 1 plant per sq foot. I dont necessarily need too much penetration.


Thanks for stopping by y'all. I'll post a few pictures tonight. Sparky is slightly postponed, likely getting power ran this weekend.
 

repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
SILs = Screw In LEDs, i.e. regular E27 bulbs, LED based (thread on SILs) from commodity brands: Philips, GE, etc.

11-15Watt ones are the deal, can be sourced for between $5-10 each. All you need is wire, sockets and popping off the translucent dome so that they light perpendicular to the canopy:

This is the hood I'm using on a small tent, 240W total:

picture.php


Of course you can make an "octopus cable" with some sockets, and use socket multipliers instead, placing them at will over each plant.

picture.php


Manufactured COBs are like electronic jewelry, prices are simply absurd, DIY is the only way to go for reasonable prices, but still, you'll have additional work to do assemble it.

COBs are the ultimate thing when luminosity efficiency is seeked, but have a problem IMHO: they require same canopy distance as an HPS; multiply the power COB chips are run at per ten, e.g. COB run at 40W will require same canopy distance as a 400W HPS. Not that great when you're limited on vertical space.

Also unless you spend a good deal on huge passive heatsinks, active cooling (computer fans) will be required for COBs: another PSU, wiring, expense, things that can go wrong (small DC fans hate humid environments).

I have built a couple DIY lights out of both LED chips (Cree XM-L, etc) and COBs... and I'm raving with SILs, as IMHO:

- Cheapest
- Utmost flexibility: you can enable/disable not used bulbs, swap them for different temp colors and powers... an reuse those old ones at home.
- Total power to be run not limited by ballasts (HPS, HID, CMH etc) or drivers (COBs)
- Mixing the right amount of blues provide the lowest stretch and adds frost
- No heat

This is the temp color mix I'm using on a flowering tent:

picture.php


The pace at which stems thicken and harden is impressive:

picture.php


Having trouble to crush and bend these stems!

Regarding tables/weights... coco + drippers will cut weight vs soil.
 
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Drop That Sound

Well-known member
Ya man. I like having a decent yet inconspicous looking old trailer that no one ever bats an eyelash at, to be "breaking buds" in ;) . I pretty much build everything on wheels now days. It can be a lot of work to repair old RVs/trailers though. You can't see how bad it really is until you start digging.

My 5th wheel had leaky roof vents in the front and back, and a rotten side skirt board running on the main door side. I've completely re-framed those areas from the inside out, added rooms, new plywood and flooring from the front to back. All new wiring with 50 amp 240v coming in. Trying to utilize every square inch as best as possible.

Now its even nicer and cleaner on the inside than some peoples homes(including my own), with all the fine detail work, etc. Really tricked out and custom one of a kind side project that has kept me busy a few years now, lol.

An enclosed trailer/ semi dry van, or on a frame from the ground up is really the way to go though, will save you months of extra work.




About the roof panels; I would probably skip the cheap flimsy PVC, and go for the poly carbonate or other composite ones. They are pretty tough, especially on top of plywood.

If I did use corrugated PVC I might re-inforce under the ribs with extra strips of wood or maybe 1/2 pvc pipe. Or even just double it up. The reviews for it suck, even for its intended purpose..

You could also use two 8 footers and slope them like a V into a drain/res in the center. Or even rip them down into smaller panels and drain towards the walkways and have a long rain gutter to catch the runoff.




As far as insulation go's, the more the better, no matter the climate. I would have 3-4 inch if I could...
 

Zarezhu

Member
@DTS- Same, wish I could run more than 50A to the trailer. I looked into semi trailers and such, I just dont think I can legally park them in the yard, and I only have a 100A main at this rental. Sucks to limit myself like that. Especially considering there are massive offices (12x30, 10 x 40) available on craigslist for dirt cheap. I guess I have to let my dreams be dreams, eh =p

I like your idea about reinforcing with wood or pvc, that should work very well.

I was going to tilt all the tables towards the back of the trailer, and run floor drains with a p trap. This way, I could just hose down the walls and floor when I was going to clean/bleach the room. Im putting vinyl flooring in, and the foam walls should be able to stand up to a nice spraydown. I have the shiny reflective side facing the inside of the room.

I do like the idea of having my runoff go straight into a res, so I can pump it out every so often. There wont be a puddle of runoff behind the trailer. But then again, I could just put a small mixing tub under the trailer to collect the runoff, and pump it away whenever needed.

I did also consider the inward gutters. Not liking that idea so much any more, though.



@repuk-

Appreciate your thorough replies my friend! I don't know that I have the time to research LEDs, specifically DIY style lights. I was tempted to buy a bunch of the 3x3 coverage LEDs off Amazon, but looking at CMH, theyre roughly the same price and I think they can penetrate the canopy somewhat better?

Ive lightly researched CMH lights the last few days, and am leaning towards filling the room with CMH. They're only 315w, but they're HIDs and their spectrum is incredible. They keep plants super short and stocky as well, which is super important for a low ceiling and nursery.

Amazon has the 315w CMH kits with the wide gavita style reflectors for just under $200. I think 5 of the wide style reflector per 3x16' table should light it VERY thoroughly, no hot spots. I could even run 6 per table. Im not sure if the regular style reflector or the wide/epap style reflector would be better for my situation, but im thinking the wide reflectors would.
 

Drop That Sound

Well-known member
I put a 1-1/2 inch drain right at the very back of my flower room too. Pounded an ABC fitting flush with the vinyl flooring. Looks like an exhaust pipe down below. I can use the runoff to gravity feed my veggies when I put them out, just down the hill a bit. They'll be on my new cattle panel arched hoophouse on wheels. Next to my new chicken coop on wheels. Gonna be a busy spring for me ;)

I recommend the big fat camco 50 amp RV extension cords off amazon.com. I cut the female plug end off a 30' one, and wired it straight into a 70 sub panel w/ 2 dual breakers. Have 4 120v circuits. The 50 amp breaker on the main panel runs to a receptical on the backside of the service panel post outside, like 15-20 feet away from my trailer, just plug in and good to go. Its really durable and I don't worry about it getting damaged, real nice cord.







BTW I also been playing with, and thinking about supplementing around my dimmed HPS, or even straight running with SIL's too. I really want to do a 3' x 4' fixture, around 850 watts. No way am I spending give or take a dollar per watt though.



About to order a dozen or so 10 packs of plastic e27 bulb base sockets from ebay, @ $4.50 a pack & free shipping from hong kong. When they show up in a month or 2 i'm gonna build a slim 6"x3'x4' box with 96 holes for 96 dollar store 9w LED bulbs to mount them in (minus the plastic globes). That way I can air cool it, having the rim of the bulbs flush to the holes so its sealed.



The way I see it (inverse square law?) the massive amount of those 96 bulbs all together is no different than 800+ watts worth of 8-10 COBS or whatever. Just more spread out, perfect for the way I grow.

The 14-15 watt LED screw in bulbs just have more diodes, or more doubled up ones, with a larger driver. Two 9 watt bulbs right next to each other put out more lumens than one of the more expensive 15w bulbs. one pro about them is you need less bases for them to screw in. Bases are cheap off ebay though.




They really would be perfect for a nursery:

2 x 3 x 16= 96 sq ft

96 x lets say 40 watts per square foot= 3840 watts

3840 / 9= 426.6 That's 427 bulbs (if using 9 watters) and sockets you need, plus a roll of wire, and material for the frame, etc.


427 base sockets $192.15

427 9w SIL's (from the dollar store) $427.00 + tax

Wire/Framing materials $100-?



Compare that price figure with any other LED\COB and i'm sure you'll be impressed ;)
 

repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Sounds like a plan :)

COBs will require more canopy distance than SILs in addition.

Puntual Light intensity from SILs has more to do with LED chip count than overall watts:

It may happen a 15W SIL bulb has more chips than a 11W one; it has more, but lower powered chips, which could be placed even closer to the canopy.

Until the dome is popped off is difficult to say.

picture.php



If the 15watters would have had same chip count as the 11W, that would mean they're much powerful individual LED chips, who would require more canopy distance. But with these bulbs is actually the opposite.

Try to check actual chip count prior to purchasing in quantities... if for some reason the SILs have say (exagerating)... 9W, and after popping the dome you discover they have only 5 LED chips, these will be really powerful chips driven harder, and thus requiring more canopy distance.

I would say the sockets you choose will have a great impact on speed and slickness of the install, specially at these socket counts, try to define how will you wire/attach them, then look for the fastest and easy socket to deploy.

Tip: have a hot glue gun when dome popping, puting globs of hot glue to isolate exposed contacts on the SILs PCB as you go.
 

Drop That Sound

Well-known member
The real question is, after a guy spends a day and maybe builds four 2.5'x7.5 fixtures with 3-430 bulbs and sockets.. is how many guys does it take to screw in 3-430 light bulbs? lol
 

repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
heheh, not for the faint of heart!

Quality of sockets will also have an impact of time required... I noticed multipliers and cheap plastic sockets more than usually need their metal tabs adjusted to make contact with the bulb, around half of them required such tweaks.

Cleat sockets required zero tweaks, and were actually cheaper!
 

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