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Old 06-12-2019, 10:07 AM #241
Koondense
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I like this thread, a nice blend of facts, research, ideology, hate, pride and bullshit. A very balanced content



Tricky question, what is the highest theoretical grams per area value?
I have a very hard time understanding some claims here.



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Old 06-12-2019, 03:02 PM #242
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Lets just let the guy do what he does best, which is design lights i assume idk, then we'll get some side by sides done and we'll see what's what. It certainly wont do HGL any favours if he is proven wrong so lets see

At the end of the day he could have not included ic in the design and discussion and just done what he wanted (like everyone else is/has) and made false claims on his website anyway (like almost everyone does) but he hasnt.

Really what he has said has made perfect sense so far to me anyway and actually where i was sceptical a month ago im actually thinking id like to run one of these against what im doing now.

I have 0 HGL products and about 2000 watts worth of other top bin LED lights, including some of HLGs badly designed boards which im not using currently, they were obviously not really horticulture people from the get go or they would have done some actually designing and wavelength supp from day one not 5 years later.

Anyway this thread is NOT a HLG vs HGL thread is it, and they make a poor comparison, its an opportunity to see behind the scenes of this design process. The work he has put in is obvious, anyone who has actually done some thinking about this subject will see that.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:47 PM #243
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Originally Posted by Lost in a SOG View Post
Lets just let the guy do what he does best, which is design lights i assume idk, then we'll get some side by sides done and we'll see what's what. It certainly wont do HGL any favours if he is proven wrong so lets see

At the end of the day he could have not included ic in the design and discussion and just done what he wanted (like everyone else is/has) and made false claims on his website anyway (like almost everyone does) but he hasnt.

Really what he has said has made perfect sense so far to me anyway and actually where i was sceptical a month ago im actually thinking id like to run one of these against what im doing now.

I have 0 HGL products and about 2000 watts worth of other top bin LED lights, including some of HLGs badly designed boards which im not using currently, they were obviously not really horticulture people from the get go or they would have done some actually designing and wavelength supp from day one not 5 years later.

Anyway this thread is NOT a HLG vs HGL thread is it, and they make a poor comparison, its an opportunity to see behind the scenes of this design process. The work he has put in is obvious, anyone who has actually done some thinking about this subject will see that.

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Old 06-12-2019, 05:29 PM #244
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Koondense - that post was priceless, you're a funny guy! Gave me a great laugh and a smile with my morning coffee

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nearly as much diodes as the panels i build last year (9x192 vs. 15x144)

about 600$ in cost, with a 96% efficient dimmable driver putting out around 2,7umol/J, better spread, no hot spots

how much more is yours gonna cost? will it be less then 2000?

send one over to europe and it can play against it...
I'm shooting for a retail price of $799 or lower on the 400W model (which includes S&H in the USA). Not certain yet if I'll hit it, but that's my goal. You'll still have about 400 LEDs on our model though. What are the overall dimensions on your unit? Watts? I think you did a very nice job of designing and building your panel. It's definitely going to have a nice, even spread.

A 96% efficient driver and 2.7 umol/joule (which can only be calculated in an integrating sphere) doesn't mean much though when you're using white LEDs where the majority of the spectrum isn't absorbed by your plants. If it meant anything HLG would be besting us right now in that side by side with their many advantages other than spectrum. So basically you built yourself a HLG light with a more even spread, but it's still a white light at a similar efficiency to the one our older technology is currently besting. I do give you kudos though for building your own at a cheaper price with a more even spread, rather than supporting such a generic company. The problem is most you DIY guys and competitors keep focusing on electrical efficiency rather than photosynthetic and photochemical efficiency. You forget that we're growing plants, not just trying to figure out who can make more photons per watt. How the science of plants has been completely disregarded from the discussion of grow lights is beyond me. Anyone can build a LED light that will grow plants, but only a scientist can create a real LED grow light.

I'll make you a deal Sethimus. I'll get you one of my lights for less than you paid to build yours including shipping to Europe. Run a side by side. If our light doesn't out-yield yours in grams per watt (it will) I'll pay to ship it back and refund your money.

I didn't get where I am today after 10 years by not following through on my promises or living up to our undefeated reputation. No one does the level of R&D that I do to produce a grow light which is how I know I'll win every competition, every time (even with my older tech). So if you want a professionally built light that will outperform anything you can build, for a decent price, take me up on my offer. You have nothing to lose, you can see for yourself the night and day difference between "white light" and RGB white, and you can go from HGL troll to "OK their tech is pretty badass" (even if you still don't like me lol).
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:45 PM #245
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thanks for taking the time to respond...


as i said,price was a big factor in choosing the hlg lamps,but having someone i know using them and reporting the results was far more important really. even then if it had been within my budget i would have gone with the gavita led.




too bad i used up my build budget,i just shut down my main room for the summer and i'm getting ready to set up a 4x4 tent which would be easier to keep cool with leds,and so far i'm loving what i'm seeing in the new space i built out.


as i noted in my thread i'm both not really able to do a fair side by side,and unwilling to compromise the function of the one space i have where it would even be feasable...not to mention i'm really not that good a grower...i only recently started to bother to pH my nutes and do stuff like a fresh water day once a week! to be fair,the general organics nutes feed chart said not to do any of that when i started using them,add in a big dollop of dumb and stubborn on my part,and not seeing the most obvious explanation for the problems i had been having...


it's like i just learned to grow really...




anyway,i'm babbling again...


keep at it,based on my experiences so far more led lighting will be in my future,i'm always looking for ways to minimize the gardens impact on the environment and my bills, i'm already looking to replace more of my standard 1000w hps with gavitas since i get the same yield from a gavita running at 600w as a standard 1000w,and it's looking like leds are going to do even better for me....
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:06 PM #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclefishstick View Post
as i said,price was a big factor in choosing the hlg lamps,but having someone i know using them and reporting the results was far more important really. even then if it had been within my budget i would have gone with the gavita led.
I'd love to find someone who has one of these Gavita's to put up against these new XB models. No one who is using white LEDs is actually making grow lights, they're just doing the bare minimum to make a LED light that can grow plants (Kinda like how they took street lights - HID - and started growing plants with them 50 years ago despite never being designed for that purpose). Gavita is taking the easy way out like everyone else in this industry right now, rather than developing a targeted spectrum to grow plants. Speaking candidly, it wouldn't have performed much if any different than the HLG light you got. BUT as you mentioned, price is becoming a much bigger factor in people's decisions in 2019 than it was in 2012. It's one of the reasons I'm paying such close attention to how we can reduce cost to manufacture on these new lights without sacrificing performance. Even if I do give you double the yield per watt, if someone isn't going to consider the product because it costs 25%, more I'm at a loss. Now if I can beat a competitor like HLG on price AND give you double the yield per watt, who isn't going to consider our products?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclefishstick View Post
too bad i used up my build budget,i just shut down my main room for the summer and i'm getting ready to set up a 4x4 tent which would be easier to keep cool with leds,and so far i'm loving what i'm seeing in the new space i built out.
That room you built is bad-ass. I don't think anyone would disagree.

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Originally Posted by unclefishstick View Post
as i noted in my thread i'm both not really able to do a fair side by side,and unwilling to compromise the function of the one space i have where it would even be feasable...not to mention i'm really not that good a grower...i only recently started to bother to pH my nutes and do stuff like a fresh water day once a week! to be fair,the general organics nutes feed chart said not to do any of that when i started using them,add in a big dollop of dumb and stubborn on my part,and not seeing the most obvious explanation for the problems i had been having...
I wouldn't ask you to compromise the space, but rather hang two lights in it instead of one. HLG on one side and our new XB on the other. Throw up a panda film divider and you have yourself a test. It's not about how PRO you are or not, results are relative. Even if you don't want to do a side by side, if you want to replace your 1000W HPS please do consider one of our new XB models. I'll make you a great deal on it since you do so much posting here, as long as it's used in a journal or two.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:38 PM #247
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i appreciate it,i just think dividing the space would compromise the airflow,and the room is working so well right now i'm leery of doing anything that might inhibit function,plus it would be basically impossible to have two sets of the same cuts in a timely fashion so it wouldn't be much of a side by side.


and even with the tent grow it's all forum cookies and thin mints and they just aren't going to yield as well in terms of grams per square foot as what's going on in the led room and the spaces are only going to be roughly similar in terms of how well ventilated and cooled they are.


i just don't feel i could provide any truly valid data...not to mention i really don't have a spare penny so even if i got the panel for free,and i'm not asking for that,i would have to based on my past experiences with other people probably say no simply because i was asked in the past to fudge results because of the "got free stuff" thing...not saying you would do that,but once burned twice shy and all that...
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:42 PM #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroGrowLeds View Post
Koondense - that post was priceless, you're a funny guy! Gave me a great laugh and a smile with my morning coffee



I'm shooting for a retail price of $799 or lower on the 400W model (which includes S&H in the USA). Not certain yet if I'll hit it, but that's my goal. You'll still have about 400 LEDs on our model though. What are the overall dimensions on your unit? Watts? I think you did a very nice job of designing and building your panel. It's definitely going to have a nice, even spread.

A 96% efficient driver and 2.7 umol/joule (which can only be calculated in an integrating sphere) doesn't mean much though when you're using white LEDs where the majority of the spectrum isn't absorbed by your plants. If it meant anything HLG would be besting us right now in that side by side with their many advantages other than spectrum. So basically you built yourself a HLG light with a more even spread, but it's still a white light at a similar efficiency to the one our older technology is currently besting. I do give you kudos though for building your own at a cheaper price with a more even spread, rather than supporting such a generic company. The problem is most you DIY guys and competitors keep focusing on electrical efficiency rather than photosynthetic and photochemical efficiency. You forget that we're growing plants, not just trying to figure out who can make more photons per watt. How the science of plants has been completely disregarded from the discussion of grow lights is beyond me. Anyone can build a LED light that will grow plants, but only a scientist can create a real LED grow light.

I'll make you a deal Sethimus. I'll get you one of my lights for less than you paid to build yours including shipping to Europe. Run a side by side. If our light doesn't out-yield yours in grams per watt (it will) I'll pay to ship it back and refund your money.

I didn't get where I am today after 10 years by not following through on my promises or living up to our undefeated reputation. No one does the level of R&D that I do to produce a grow light which is how I know I'll win every competition, every time (even with my older tech). So if you want a professionally built light that will outperform anything you can build, for a decent price, take me up on my offer. You have nothing to lose, you can see for yourself the night and day difference between "white light" and RGB white, and you can go from HGL troll to "OK their tech is pretty badass" (even if you still don't like me lol).
its a 3p5s config, powered by a meanwell hlg 480 2100, each strip gets 700mA, barely warm to the touch, size is 116x110cm, there are 15 samsung f series 3000k strips with 144 lm561c each in this build.

oh and i grew with reds before, behold, THE MONSTER:




30 cree 3590 3500k cd bin, combined with 20 vero 18 decor 1750k aka the meat chip with a heavy redish spectrum. 1200w panel powered by 4 drivers needed 3 ppl to hang that 60kg panel

blue peak, green peak, red peak and fr. yet i see not much difference to plain 3000k white light
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:37 PM #249
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based on my past experiences with other people probably say no simply because i was asked in the past to fudge results because of the "got free stuff" thing...not saying you would do that,but once burned twice shy and all that...
Now I understand more why you don't like claims and have a skeptical view of grow tests. The only thing I've ever asked of people using our lights is to use them as directed. I give people general guidelines for optimal temp, humidity, co2 enrichment and hanging height, but aside from that I let them grow. I don't need anyone to skew results with our products, they speak volumes for themselves.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:58 PM #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethimus View Post
its a 3p5s config, powered by a meanwell hlg 480 2100, each strip gets 700mA, barely warm to the touch, size is 116x110cm, there are 15 samsung f series 3000k strips with 144 lm561c each in this build.

30 cree 3590 3500k cd bin, combined with 20 vero 18 decor 1750k aka the meat chip with a heavy redish spectrum. 1200w panel powered by 4 drivers needed 3 ppl to hang that 60kg panel

blue peak, green peak, red peak and fr. yet i see not much difference to plain 3000k white light
I'll hand it to you Sethimus, you build some pretty nice rigs. Now if you had LEDs with a proper grow spectrum rather than general human illumination lights, you'd be killing it. You're definitely doing a great job of spreading the intensity evenly over your area. I like seeing people take the initiative to do something better than what standard offerings allow you to achieve. If you had 4 of our 300W boards I think the even spread of intensity would be pretty well matched, but the total weight would only be about 40lbs lol.
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