root rot in coco?

So my kushes are 3 weeks into 12-12 now, and when removing the males, I noticed that the plants in coco had weaker roots than the ones in soil, a bit brown as well. My girls are doing fine, not showing signs of stress above the scrog, but the leaves beneath the scrog are dying a bit too fast for my taste (so early in flowering), and seem to be too easy to detach as well. I also have some fungus gnats flying in there.

So my speculation is that I have a mild case of root rot with some of the coco plants, at least not strong and healthy roots as coco is said to promote. My question is, what can I do now, at this stage of the plant's life to counter this?

My plants: 7 - 5 in coco, 2 in soil. Hindu and Afghan Kush. Screen is about 2' above soil, under 400w HPS. mix is coco-perlite 50-50. I water about once a week. In the beginning of my grow I would water every day, keeping it constantly wet as everybody says coco can't be overwatered. This I think was a grave mistake, MY coco can definitely be overwatered and they started showing symptoms rather early then I switched to wet-dry cycle.

last watering I gave 0.3EC with 3ml/L h2o2, then on the next day 1.5EC of HESI coco, pk 13/14, supervit, and 1tspn/gl of pure bee honey. letting dry now. After the first part of feed I noticed an improvement, one of the bottom fan leaves that was lying on the medium about to wilt, was standing upright again.

I don't have enzymes or root XL, but I can purchase some if it's really valuable. I'm not sure if I have any option to purchase friendly bacteria, but if you know of another way to introduce them... My grow is not organic, I feed hydro nutes even in soil.

Love to hear any advice.

I think your issue is that you don't need to be watering once a week, or once a day...

Somewhere between those extremes would be much better. Every other day, every 3 days, that's probably where you should be at the moment.

You also aren't listing the volume of your planters or the volume of runoff you are collecting when watering. The 50/50 perlite mixture should have no issues with daily waterings when the root system is strong but until then just water as required (before the media is dry, but after 1/2 the weight has been consumed).

[double posted somehow...]

i forgot to say the pots are 3gl. i don't measure the amount of runoff - someone once said i should. can you explain why?

thanks for your opinion. i'll keep it in mind and consult. the counter-reason is the gnats - i know they require dry soil to be eliminated. otherwise I would try to water more often. But i'll think about it still.

bleach and/or h202 for initial kill.
rooting nutrients/additives after.
re-pot into a bigger pot with fresh medium if possible.

do you have bugs?
pull out all your plants and check for gnats and/or aphids. they love a weak plant with rotting roots. they will amplify the problem and eventually spread the disease everywhere.

thanks. like i said i'm three weeks into flowering under a tight scrog so lifting pots, transplanting etc. isn't possible. I do have gnats, but the only thing I can do abuot them is letting dry. i'm open for more suggestions though. I've treated with h2o2 in the last watering. did you actually read my post though?

Search this site for how others deal with gnats. There's tons of things that work. I'm a fan of DE but off the top of my head lots of folks like gnatrol or mosquito dunks.

Personally I'm amazed that your plants can survive a week without watering. If I go more than 2 days I'm bone dry and the plants look like hell. I assume you've got good drainage holes in your pots?

I've never used honey before. Is that supposed to be similar to molasses?

John Deere said:

Search this site for how others deal with gnats. There's tons of things that work. I'm a fan of DE but off the top of my head lots of folks like gnatrol or mosquito dunks.

Personally I'm amazed that your plants can survive a week without watering. If I go more than 2 days I'm bone dry and the plants look like hell. I assume you've got good drainage holes in your pots?

I've never used honey before. Is that supposed to be similar to molasses?

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i'm actually not very sure that the gnats are my problem, but I guess it's worth to try and get rid of them. those dunks you recommend are not available for me but there is something i can use that may work. what about neem? i'll check that out as well.

i do have good drainage, but i'm also running 55-75% RH. This could be why. they can even go for more than a week.

yes, i understand honey is just like molasses. all about the sugars. plus honey has many vitamins and stuff.

drench and spray with azamax, and your gnat problems are over. Be sure to respray/drench a couple of times. Always spray with lights OFF for a few hours afterward until leaves dry.

I bet you'll find the little buggers were hurting your roots more than you thought. Very doubtful you have root rot in coir if you have run off, especially with a 50/50 perlite load.

stagafolaysa said:

thanks. like i said i'm three weeks into flowering under a tight scrog so lifting pots, transplanting etc. isn't possible. I do have gnats, but the only thing I can do abuot them is letting dry. i'm open for more suggestions though. I've treated with h2o2 in the last watering. did you actually read my post though?

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i did read it. twice.

one way to know if you have root rot is if the plant starts yellowing and leaves start do die.
a definite way to know, is to pull a plant that has the above symptoms out, smell the roots and pull some out with your fingers. if you have root rot... you will know. there are no other ways to diagnose. you must look at and smell your roots.

your bug problem might be bigger than you think and your gnats might be root aphids or both. they might be eating at your roots thus creating deficiencies and a vector for disease such as rot.
get rid of your bug problem with azatrol or IMID (if you don't mind using it so late into the flowering stage) and try a "dead reservoir" feeding of hydro/coco nutes with bleach/h202.

i rather cut a scrog screen up and check what the problem is, than guess and apply remedies which will just hurt the yield/quality.

you know, you can nurse them to maturity.

good luck.

I don't have enzymes or root XL, but I can purchase some if it's really valuable. I'm not sure if I have any option to purchase friendly bacteria, but if you know of another way to introduce them...

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Various "Aquarium starter" / "Pond starter" bacterial enzyme concoctions can be easily found in the pet/pond sections of various well stocked stores and is apparently (commonly?) being used successfully in gardening circles as an inexpensive prophylactic enzyme supplement source.
>>>>>>>>

In the beginning of my grow I would water every day, keeping it constantly wet as everybody says coco can't be overwatered. This I think was a grave mistake, MY coco can definitely be overwatered and they started showing symptoms rather early then I switched to wet-dry cycle.

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A water it, then "let her go light" /dry cycle(s) is desirable initially so that that the developing root-ball will fill out their containers, if kept constantly wet at first the root-ball growth usually become quite stifled and stunted and just generally feeble.
Once one has a well established root-ball in a coco peat filled container, it is at that point in time it becomes a great accomplishment to then over water the coco peat.
>>>>>>>>

Fungus Gnats can be pretty easily controlled with a "insect growth regulator" such as Methoprene which is commonly sold as a Mosquito larvae control agent for ponds and birdbaths.
I have used a product called "Cutter Backyard Mosquito Control Tablets" that I picked up at a Walmart last summer that did a fabulous job of eradicating a fungus gnats/root aphid issue that developed in some bug infested Coco bales I gotta hold of...
These tablets should do the( magic) trick for you in short order,(and eliminate any subsequent life cycles), imho, 1 tablet per 2 gallons to your nutrient solution when you water the next two (or three) times should be an adequate dose and amount of time, I would think.
I used over a two week period with run to waste coco and haven't seen a bug since in that currently being recycled batch.
A 30 tablet package cost around ten U.S. dollars and the aquarium/pond starter about 4 dollars on up.
Good Luck.

IMB

Methoprene is a juvenile hormone (JH) analog which can be used as an insecticide that acts as a growth regulator.
Methoprene is essentially nontoxic to humans when ingested or inhaled.
It is used in drinking water cisterns to control mosquitoes which spread malaria.

Methoprene does not kill adult insects. Instead, it acts as a growth regulator, mimicking natural juvenile hormone of insects. Juvenile hormone must be absent for a pupa to molt to an adult, so methoprene treated larvae will be unable to successfully change from a pupa to the adult insect. This breaks the biological life cycle of the insect preventing recurring infestation. "Methoprene is used in the production of a number of foods including meat, milk, mushrooms, peanuts, rice and cereals. It also has several uses on domestic animals (pets) for controlling fleas. Methoprene is considered a biochemical pesticide because rather than controlling target pests through direct toxicity, methoprene interferes with an insect’s life cycle and prevents it from reaching maturity or reproducing."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methoprene

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Harinama's right. Azatrol or Azamax will do the job organically. I'd be extremely reluctant to spray anything other than an innoculant so close to harvest. I definitely would not apply any systemic fungicide, insecticide or miticide [spray or drench] at this stage, except for the ones you want to smoke.

A cheaper alternative which, like Azadiractin, is OMRI approved and can be sprayed or used as a drench up to harvest is Spinosad. With wetting agent, kicks Spider Mite ass as well. Search. The one I use is Green Light brand, available at Lowe's. Works great.

The peroxide and/or bleach killed all your microherd. You should re-inoculate. A good microherd will combat root rot and other fungal and bacterial problems. Once done and with a 50% perlite mix, seems unlikely you'll you have more root rot, if that was you're problem. You can then go middle ground on the watering.

I would do the soil drench first, then I would re-inoculate the medium with something like Plant Success Soluble, or other similar products that contain Micos, Tricodermas, bacteria, etc. Or you can use compost, EWC, etc. as a top dressing or make Aerated Compost Tea and water with it. You can make an awesome tea with you're inoculated bloom nutes. Brew 24-48 hours or until pH is where you want it, especially if pH starts out low after mixing. Best to hand water teas. The tea smell will go thru stages from beer like to yeasty, etc. It will have a head that will change. Normal. Stir it in just before applying.

If you let it go too long it will start to stank. Pour it out on the grass, uh... lawn, or something.

I spray Aqua Shield on all my buds twice during bloom, and I'm thinking I'll do it 3 times this next run. Cheap and works very well for fungal problems. I've had none, but I have a dehumidifier in a closed system. I've used it outdoors on several landscape plants that had year after year fungal problems with great success. Like no fungal problems at all the year I sprayed them. And none for 3 years following.

You can combine it with seaweed, bloom formula, or other things. I don't know that it matters, but I don't use any sugar product foliarly for a couple of reasons. First, I don't want to find out the hard way that fungi grow on sugar that's on the leaves/buds. There's a common one, Sooty Mold, that does just that. It only grows on the sugar, doesn't attack the leaves/buds, but what a mess. Second, if the sugar is not washed from the buds, it might prove to make the smoke harsher. Don't know, but don't want to find out the hard way.

Still, the big thing for you is to get your room humidity down for many reasons, bud rot being a big one..

Buena suerte. -Granger

stagafolaysa said:

thanks. like i said i'm three weeks into flowering under a tight scrog so lifting pots, transplanting etc. isn't possible. I do have gnats, but the only thing I can do abuot them is letting dry. i'm open for more suggestions though.

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Like someone said earlier, I like Diatomacous Earth. It worked for me better than Mosquito Dunks or Bayer Complete Insect Control. I keep a res of water bubbling that i water from. Tried Dunks in it for months and only knocked em back about 50%. After that i tried the Bayer product, which can be used a soil drench or spray. I used it as a drench. It's suppoed to kill damn near anything in any stage of life. After 4 drenchings over a 30 day period, i still had gnats. Finally after pulling my hair out for months i tried DE. I bought Safer brand from Lowes in powder form. I top dressed with it and three days later i was nearly gnat free. Because of the way my system works and the other gardening i do , there are always gnats around. The DE gets em on the way in before they can breed which keeps em outta my grow and in the garage. whenever i see more than one or two in my cab i just top dress again and problem solved. I use a squeezeable bottle with a fine tip on it to sprinkle it under the canopy onto the soil surface. Its easy,cheap as hell(ive had the same 5lb bag of DE for over a year now) and the best part is it adds a lil silica to your grow making your plants tough as nails. My stems are much stiffer, i stake my plants two weeks later into flower. They also withstand heat and dry much better. I've had ZERO bud rot or mildew since using DE and my cab is stagnant when lights are off so the RH gets 85%+ sometimes, its almost never below 60% when things are dark. I love the stuff.