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Old 12-06-2018, 07:17 PM #2601
THC123
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Hey Douglas, do you still get good smells at 55-60% RH?
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:45 PM #2602
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much food for thought here from recent posts
i'll agree on staleness appearing in cured jars, at least sometimes
i've found some bud to stay quite nice in a jar, others less so
one thing than can change this is transferring to smaller jars
less air can help quite a bit
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:04 PM #2603
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70 degrees is higher than optimum, would explain why it seems ready in 7 days.
55-60 for temp and humidity works best for drying and storage.


Genetics could likely be contributing to lack of smell. Auto’s have ruderalis in them.
Ruderalis by itself looks like a million bucks, frosty as hell, bag appeal for days.

Ruderalis has an almost non existent camphor smell, extremely faint. Zero flavor. And no detectable buzz. Grew ten Ruderalis years ago to try them out.

It’s unlikely the commercial or imports you see are Auto’s, which is why you are more impressed with them.

Ruderalis has its place, it probably has something useful medically in it. It’s selling point for breeders is the ability to autoflower, period.

There may be worthwhile ruderalis hybrids im unfamiliar with due to my early experience growing straight ruderalis.

However, my interest in cannabis lies in the psychoactive effects and terpenes.

So unless you are actively trying to create something useful with ruderalis, I would consider that using ruderalis is like peeing or pooping in the gene pool to dilute otherwise useful genetics.
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:46 PM #2604
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Thanks so much everyone for the thoughts & input I really appreciate it.

It's really interesting what you wrote here THC123, the vacuum and freezer methods have piqued my interest. Something makes me think that a lot of weed I get here has been freezer cured (sublimation if I remember correctly).

I think I prefer my weed on the dry side. I wonder which method is best for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burmese View Post
hi superbadgrower, i think that problem is in shortness of drying,,, istnt 7 days too short for drying by 20Celsius?
That's been on my mind the most. I think, after day 7, I deemed it ready for jarring, but the RH shot up to 70% quite quickly. Then, they were possibly in too high of a humidity for too long, although they smelled great during this period. I just followed the instructions and took stuff out of the jars occasionally until it reached 64-65% inside.

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Originally Posted by burmese View Post
//nothing bad to you, but from info from you here//
Don't worry man I am just a beginner. This is the best forum with so many experienced growers. I'd never be offended. (I'll be the first to call my weed shit)


I've also read about a trash bag method where someone would let their plant hang dry until the outside got crispy, then they would put loosely tie trash bags around bundles of sticks and let the outside bud get moist again. Then remove the trash bag to dry and put them back on again. Kind of like a hang-dry simulation of jar burping with a wet-dry cycle.

I wish there was a hard science about this. Surely there is, somewhere. These guys here are harvesting thousands of plants every month. But they probably have access to industrial equipment. My third harvest is coming up in 2 weeks and I will continue reading and investigating until that time. I think I will remove fan leaves and do a dry trim when the sugar leaves snap off easily to ensure that I don't jar it up too moist, assuming I will use jars.
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:49 PM #2605
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Then you should go for the vacuum cure or the freezer method.

You can PM me for details because this thread is about Simon's method and I don't want to Hijack the thread. Come to think of it, I also have a thread dedicated to the freezer method in this section somehere, you can also post your questions there because I don't think you can PM under 50 posts.

I encourage you to divide your harvest in different batches and then try different methods so you have a reference, a side by side to help in your decision. Like I said I alays use multiple methods just to have variation. I am also jar curing now so it is not like I have something against jars, I just don't think it is the best method for me and my favorite strains combined with my preferred consumption method. Cannabis needs to be at different points for smoking pure, smoking with tobacco or vaping. The method of consumption thus influences the perfect moisture level for your cannabis combined with the strain you are using.

If I was smoking pure I would use the jar an vacuum method and then after some time I would freeze my cannabis to keep it at a perfect point. But I am a vaper mostly so I mostly freeze it at a certain wow point during hang drying without a real cure maybe just a quick sweat. Mind you I always have big outdoor and greenhouse harvests so I have to keep my weed tasty LONG TERM that is why I use the freezer. Because I vape I always do a short cure to retain the fresh terpenes. Aged cannabis sucks for vaping taste and effect wise.

If you still want to test jar curing I would just leave the sugar leaves on during the cure and just remove them before smoking. This way you have a larger margin for error as the terpenes will be better retained and also the stickyness.
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:01 PM #2606
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Originally Posted by igrowone View Post
one thing than can change this is transferring to smaller jars
less air can help quite a bit
That's funny, I did just that the other day. I wanted to get less air and try to get the buds danking up that way. A lot of the guides recommend to leave enough air in the jars but I've come to think it is nonsense. I haven't had mold issues and I regularly use this as a general indicator for jars, my house, whatever: https://www.dpcalc.org/

There was enough air in my jars for the buds to roll around and be moved about.

Maybe packing it tighter when you are free from mold risk is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redlaser View Post
70 degrees is higher than optimum, would explain why it seems ready in 7 days.
55-60 for temp and humidity works best for drying and storage.
Thanks, I will try to achieve a better temperature too. I have read that terpenes are lost into the air at 70.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redlaser View Post
(About autoflowers and ruderalis)
Man, I completely, totally agree with you. And I think this is valuable information for many people. This bud I am discussing here is actually a photoperiod with genetics that I would judge as quite good. After the autoflower, my first grow, I vowed I will never grow that again (to each their own. I'm sure there are better auto genetics). These Critical beat the autos in every aspect except after they started losing their smell. The autos smelled like nothing and could be grown without carbon filter, but developed an amazing sweet scent in the jar.

Sorry for double posting. I can't edit my posts (yet?) or mark your guys' posts as helpful (yet?) which they all have really been.
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:55 PM #2607
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Fresh cut grass smell is different than hay smell, one is green and one is decomposing. Fresh cut grass smell is from freshly cut material and will go away shortly, Hay smell after drying is caused by improper drying and is a result of anaerobic fermentation.

Drying/curing is an aerobic process, The plant itself consumes chlorophyll through metabolic activity after it's been cut. Keeping stomatas open and facilitating gas exchange the plant is broken down through respiration and hydrolysis. You want to keep oxygen present so that aerobic bacteria can keep anaerobic bacteria levels in check until the buds are below a homogeneous 15% moisture content, at which point most strains of bacteria will not grow.

when this isnt allowed to occur it starts to ferment. Nitrogen, sugars, cellulose, starch etc breaking down anaerobically with the high moisture content causing fermentation. This releases ammonia (essentially formed from the nitrates not breaking down properly) and acids giving the foul odor. The most likely culprit of the hay smell is Staphylococcus Lugdenensis, which are facilitive anaerobes, meaning they can survive through aerobic respiration or switch to fermentation in anaerobic environments. In aerobic mode, their only byproducts are CO2 and water, but once they consume all the O2 in their immediate environment, they switch to fermentation mode and start producing exotoxins. You want to keep them well fed with O2 (air circulation) so they stay in aerobic respiration mode.

Trimming wet after harvest/before hanging reduces the surface area and moisture level in/on plants and branches reducing the possibility for mold to colonize when hanging/drying (and its easier/faster, no crispy shrunken bud leafs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwizoking View Post
I trim a couple dozen lbs every 2 weeks and never had a mowed lawn in the room.

heres what i do:

Trim wet, rh ~60%, decent airflow ~500cfm, no light, temps 65-73°f, Hopefully this takes roughly 10-14 days before outside of buds becomes dry. Do not let any part of the bud become dry. if this happens to soon; up rh, lower temp, and/or decrease air flow. When drying is complete, Jar for minumum of 16hrs to get moisture back to the tips. You can now add boveda packs and or "burp" for 30 minutes and give airflow to the bud. Airflow is very important to the cure but so is maintaining 55-60%rh

After 2 weeks drying and 1 week "cure" i start to sell or taste test

i burp every other day for 2 weeks then weekly for 2months... then its good to go head stash
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:02 PM #2608
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Thx for this! It is all in the smalles details, I will try this with my next harvest!

The drying process is just as crucial as the curing! I also prefer drying around 60% RH cuz the buds stay sticky that way and won't dry out, if the outsides dry out I find the taste and quality goes down. But I am dependant on my climate and the RH often fluctuates as much as 10-15 sometimes 20% during the drying process. This has a big impact on the end product :(


The only thing I am worried about when putting a humidifier and a dehumidifier in the same room, is that the air won't mix well and that the dehumidifier will fuck things up as I have had bad experiences with dehumidifiers.

I will try it nonetheless and post my results!

The tricky thing is keeping the drying conditions stable when you are just a home grower. And using both machines is not the same as a climate controlled room which I really would like to have drool
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:29 PM #2609
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That's been on my mind the most. I think, after day 7, I deemed it ready for jarring, but the RH shot up to 70% quite quickly.

There's your problem right there. Leave them hanging for a couple more days up to another week. They will seem too dry to recover, but when you jar them, they will recover most of their moisture.


I went through the same thing a couple years ago. It's hard to NOT jar the weed when it feels dry. But you have to push through with faith. Give them another few days.



I have NEVER ruined a batch by leaving it hanging for too long. But I HAVE ruined weed by taking it down and jarring it too soon.



Good luck!
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:40 PM #2610
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Terpenes ars volatile organic compounds and solvents (dont store in plastic!), that quickly evaporate naturally. Any time you smell weed, you are smelling terpenes that were oxidised/evaporated/lost. Trichomes are where the terpenes are concentrated, damaged trichome heads cause rapid oxidation/loss of both terpenoids and cannabinoids. Humidity below 59% causes trichome heads to become brittle and destroyed easily. Boveda did a test where they took 2 glass jars of weed and only placed a 62% humidity pack in one of them to compare terpene loss after 6 weeks of sealed storage, jars were shaken lightly once a week but never opened. The jar without the Boveda pack had lost 15% more terpenes end result. The humidity packs help keep the trichome heads from becoming brittle for better preservation.

Terpenes evaporate into the air space left in the storage container after sealing also, which is why you get that dank whiff when you first open it. For long term storage it might better to fill jars fuller leaving less air space after properly dried.

Optimal storage conditions are Dark, ~50F degrees, humidity between 59% - 63% to preserve optimal color, aroma, flavor, potency, texture.

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I have NEVER ruined a batch by leaving it hanging for too long. But I HAVE ruined weed by taking it down and jarring it too soon.
^Great addition!
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