How to increase marijuana scent and flavour?

ronbo51 · Aug 26, 2018

I switched over to a home made led rig after reading the Off the shelf LED thread in micro. The last 15 years I have had to do small setups and temps have been hard to control. Now with leds heat is never an issue, and in fact I have had to add a propagation mat under my soil to add some heat. My last run was the most aromatic and flavorful ever indoors. I wish I could try some of my old C99 in this setup. Obviously genetics matter.

I also dry trimmed. Next time I am going to use a small grow tent to hang my plants under controlled humidity and air flow. This has always felt like my weak link, the drying. Easy to overlook the details and just get it dry. The cure begins as soon as it is picked.

FWIW anyone who is running a light or two of HPS should build themselves a led rig using off the shelf led bulbs. It's stupid simple and cheap and the benefits are many. I've tried some different led modules, Cobs, and they all sucked. Buy some cheap bulbs, pry the plastic lens off, plug it in, grow. 30 watts per square foot, 2700K, 3000, 5000 they all work. For me it was a miracle. It gave me the ability to control my temps and never get hot in flower.

Absolem was on target about getting hip to what the grape growers have been on to for centuries. High end wine is all about smell and flavor.

Mr. Greengenes · Aug 27, 2018

Usually I say, "There's no need to do a side by side, just try it once you'll see". Of course, I feel like I've been saying it for about thirty years now, so it's encouraging to see so many other people taking over the 'crusade'.

If you hang a whole plant to dry, you'll notice that it dries in stages. The last part to dry is the flowers. That's because it wants to finish developing any seeds that might be there. The first part to dry is the 'sun leaves'. As they dry, the moisture doesn't just go into the air, it travels up into the stem and into the flower (because the plant is trying to preserve it there). The moisture in the leaf is not just water, it has sugars and other solids in it which can be measured with a brix meter.

It is probably these solids that make dry trimmed cannabis smell noticeably better, but I think that there's a good chance that they add weight to the final product as well. If someone were to actually run a good AB test, it would have to include a way to measure that difference. I don't have any ideas on a method to measure that, does anyone else?

Douglas.Curtis · Aug 27, 2018

Mr. Greengenes said:
If you hang a whole plant to dry, you'll notice that it dries in stages. The last part to dry is the flowers. That's because it wants to finish developing any seeds that might be there.

It dries in stages due to physics. There is no calculated action by the plant to dry in any different way than physics demands.

Mr. Greengenes said:
The first part to dry is the 'sun leaves'. As they dry, the moisture doesn't just go into the air, it travels up into the stem and into the flower (because the plant is trying to preserve it there). The moisture in the leaf is not just water, it has sugars and other solids in it which can be measured with a brix meter.

This is something I completely control with wet trimmed cannabis, through a proper dry method. A drying method which "evenly" dries the cannabis, through temp/RH control. 65-68F @ 55-60RH.

Mr. Greengenes said:
It is probably these solids that make dry trimmed cannabis smell noticeably better

My wet trimmed is just as loud as my dry trimmed. The only difference is the amount of dry sugar leaves left over on dry trimmed.

When it comes out amazing both ways, I prefer not to have the bits left in it I don't smoke.

gmanwho · Aug 28, 2018

i dont know douglas. i feel your wrong. an what mr greenjeans speaks of i feel is true. the plant will sacrifice outer limbs just as our body would. prioritize saving organs, like us in the event of a freeze, or dehydration.

protect the organs. which would be the possible seeds in the colas. to mature, drop, an start over for next year.

definitely something different going on with a full branch or plant hang. what exactly i may never fully understand

bigtacofarmer · Aug 28, 2018

I alway assumed the dry trim taste better because less fresh clorophyll landing on the buds such as in dry trimming. I have heard that is why most trim machines screw up most herb. I have also read on hear that some people think once fully cured there is no difference. Any bit of testing I have done lead me to prefer dry trimmed herb. But I have never actually done true side by side with same crop to truly see.

insomniac_AU · Aug 28, 2018

In my experience the most important factor for scent and flavour is genetics. You aren't going to make some swag strain smell and taste good no matter what you do.
As long as you keep the plants healthy, flush properly at the end and harvest at the right time it's all about drying/curing properly. I really don't think it's any more complicated than that. Good genetics, healthy plants, proper flush, correct harvest time and correct drying/curing method.
I know it sounds simple in theory but getting any one of those factors wrong will have a drastic effect on the end product.

Douglas.Curtis · Aug 28, 2018

gmanwho said:
i dont know douglas. i feel your wrong. an what mr greenjeans speaks of i feel is true. the plant will sacrifice outer limbs just as our body would. prioritize saving organs, like us in the event of a freeze, or dehydration.

protect the organs. which would be the possible seeds in the colas. to mature, drop, an start over for next year.

definitely something different going on with a full branch or plant hang. what exactly i may never fully understand

The plant is dead. Physics takes over as soon as the plant is not actively drawing in from the roots due to transpiration.

There is nothing woo-woo about the cannabis plant. The only major differences to other plants are it's a hyper/dynamic accumulator and a producer of cannabinoids. There is no magic method it can use to 'preserve' parts of itself before others.

After the chop, drying and curing is COMPLETELY physics. Learn it or you'll always have lower quality stash.

MrBungle · Aug 28, 2018

I have to disagree Douglas, if the plant was dead when we separated it from its roots then we wouldn't be able to clone..... Plants do continue live on as long as there is enough water.. It slows down drastically as it dries out, but its still trying to survive till the last moment

seeded · Aug 28, 2018

MrBungle said:
I have to disagree Douglas, if the plant was dead when we separated it from its roots then we wouldn't be able to clone..... Plants do continue live on as long as there is enough water.. It slows down drastically as it dries out, but its still trying to survive till the last moment

Tell ya what, give any plant the chop and that includes in a vegetative state and not just at the end of flowering as would be the norm, and take a cutting after 24 hours of hanging and I'll donate $20 to your charity of choice if you document the progression to the cut actually taking root.

I'll save you the trouble and tell you now it's impossible but if you're willing to go to the effort I'll donate to the local animal shelter, nazi party or whatever you want if you prove I'm wrong in agreeing with douglas curtis. Now before you disagree you've stated it's alive as long as there's water in the plant so given that it takes 1-2 weeks for a plant to dry out 24 should be fair game....Hell I'm so sure that you're wrong that if you take 20 cuttings after 24 hours I'll donate $20 for each one that lives. If you're wrong though and get none to root my only request is that you donate $20 to this site. Sound fair?

Now to get this back on topic you have to understand that a plant only has so much genetic potential. It doesn't matter how much you care for it or stress it out, it's got it's limits inbuilt in it's dna which ultimately means that you need a change of genetics to improve scent and flavour. There's no magic additive or anything you can give it, merely genetics so if you can't reach the potential of that line using numbers to try and force a pheno you like to surface you really have no other choice that pursuing other genepools to get what you want. :tiphat:

bigtacofarmer · Aug 28, 2018

seeded said:
Tell ya what, give any plant the chop and that includes in a vegetative state and not just at the end of flowering as would be the norm, and take a cutting after 24 hours of hanging and I'll donate $20 to your charity of choice if you document the progression to the cut actually taking root.

I'll save you the trouble and tell you now it's impossible but if you're willing to go to the effort I'll donate to the local animal shelter, nazi party or whatever you want if you prove I'm wrong in agreeing with douglas curtis. Now before you disagree you've stated it's alive as long as there's water in the plant so given that it takes 1-2 weeks for a plant to dry out 24 should be fair game....Hell I'm so sure that you're wrong that if you take 20 cuttings after 24 hours I'll donate $20 for each one that lives. If you're wrong though and get none to root my only request is that you donate $20 to this site. Sound fair?

Now to get this back on topic you have to understand that a plant only has so much genetic potential. It doesn't matter how much you care for it or stress it out, it's got it's limits inbuilt in it's dna which ultimately means that you need a change of genetics to improve scent and flavour. There's no magic additive or anything you can give it, merely genetics so if you can't reach the potential of that line using numbers to try and force a pheno you like to surface you really have no other choice that pursuing other genepools to get what you want.

For years I have been hearing about people misting branches and wrapping them up and mailing all over the place. Somewhere recently I read some people have better luck just chopping a branch then mailing and then cloning after it arrives. Both ways suggest the plant survives after being chopped.

Douglas.Curtis · Aug 28, 2018

MrBungle said:
I have to disagree Douglas, if the plant was dead when we separated it from its roots then we wouldn't be able to clone..... Plants do continue live on as long as there is enough water.. It slows down drastically as it dries out, but its still trying to survive till the last moment

This comment is a completely different topic than drying cannabis. As long as transpiration continues, the plant is active. This happens when you place clones in water or a moist media.

Transpiration does not continue long when a branch is hung from a line. There is no 'specified' differentiation from the plant directing where remaining moisture is used.

Babbabud · Aug 28, 2018

Wet trimming is only feasible with very small personal grows

Guy Brush · Aug 28, 2018

Douglas.Curtis said:
This comment is a completely different topic than drying cannabis. As long as transpiration continues, the plant is active. This happens when you place clones in water or a moist media.

Transpiration does not continue long when a branch is hung from a line. There is no 'specified' differentiation from the plant directing where remaining moisture is used.

It's the thickest parts that hold the most water in a whole drying plant. Simple physics...
I think, pressure is key with clones/cuts. As long as the cut has enough water pressure inside it will not be dead. Parts nearer to the stem (where the water pressure is still high enough) will probably survive longer than the tips.

Douglas.Curtis · Aug 29, 2018

bigtacofarmer said:
For years I have been hearing about people misting branches and wrapping them up and mailing all over the place. Somewhere recently I read some people have better luck just chopping a branch then mailing and then cloning after it arrives. Both ways suggest the plant survives after being chopped.

Again, you're talking about keeping the end of the cutting damp. The survival rate of 'just chopping and mailing a branch" is dismally low. Wrapping a moist napkin or towel around the end will almost ensure it lives.

The discussion at hand is about cutting plants and hanging them to dry. Once transpiration stops (Yes, I'm repeating myself), physics takes over and the plant has zero input on where moisture moves.

bigtacofarmer · Aug 29, 2018

I was only pointing out that a branch can be cut and then rooted days later.

I always dry trim because I prefer the smoke. Based on my own experiences.

Dirt Bag · Aug 29, 2018

I'm not entirely certain what argument is being made here, but plant biology is not a theory. Cutting a plant triggers chemical response. Genetically programmed reactions take place. The main one being survival of the parts most important to reproduction, as this is the plants method of continuing to exist. The plant will immediately begin to remove what it can from non-essential parts, relocating it to preserve the most important parts, the flowers and seeds, until new roots can be grown. This survival technique will continue until all plant matter is dead, flowers and/or seeds last.
What exactly is relocated during this process depends greatly upon the condition of the plant and the environment. The less drastically the plant dies the longer it has to carry out this process. Since photosynthesis has been stopped, no more chlorophyll will be manufactured. Since no damage (trimming) has been done, no healing is needed. The processes available to the plant in the dark are utilized. Of course we all know plants will continue to grow in the dark, searching for light.
Cut branches are phototropic and continue to grow, often for many days.
Plants processes DO NOT stop when cut. They continue long after that.
Trimming a leaf is considered an injury to the plant and it reacts, attempting to heal the injury. This is called the plants wound response. Genetic receptors within the cells signal injury response when damage occurs which allocates resources in an attempt to repair the damage. The specific reactions depends upon the type of wounds. The cutting of leaves elicits a completely different response than breaking a branch. Plants of course respond differently to different stimuli.

Science favors dry trimming.
That's the beauty of science. It works whether you believe in it or not.

Douglas.Curtis · Aug 29, 2018

Yes, right up to the point transpiration stops. A very short time after transpiration stops, a cutting from the branch will no longer root and the drying period has begun. Unless you're hanging full plants, this stops quite quickly meaning everything you describe happens in the first couple hours.

Cut the plant and physics takes over when transpiration stops. There is no 'response' the plant can take once transpiration stops. This discussion is a moot point though, since the dry and cure are only preserving the scent and flavor you already allowed the plant to produce. We're not increasing anything by harvesting and handling it properly, only preserving what's already there.

clearheaded · Aug 30, 2018

ahh dont have it tottaly right but get ur point. once a plant is dry it is dead. slowing transporation is a way to keep plants alive longer. also think trees in minus 40 somehow they come back to life after nill transporation so yes there is mechanisms a plant uses to move things (real physics happens

and not just osmosis) around and also conserve water absession of large leaves priority goes to meristems and why even when a plant drops over and is largely crispy can come back to life... anyway more of an fyi rather then adding to the convo of taste however the reason why you cant /arent supposed to rehydrate a plant to continue to cure(properly) is perhaps the point. where by slowly drying allows small amounts of sugars to continue to be used by the cells/cellulare enzymes. which is better to keep taste as apposed to other biologicals degrading/breaking down the chlorophyl and sugars...and terps.... which is another method/part of "curing", mostly these days its not the part/kind people want tho.

Night crawler · Aug 30, 2018

I over fertilized and didnt drain to waste much ( 20%run off in coco ) and it killed the yield ,taste and smell .

Douglas.Curtis · Aug 30, 2018

Night crawler said:
I over fertilized and didnt drain to waste much ( 20%run off in coco ) and it killed the yield ,taste and smell .

Sorry to hear this, good growing on your next run. May your terps be super loud.

clearheaded: -40 does not dry the plant out, so as long as the tissue survives the plant continues transpiration when it warms up. As for sugars breaking down, I believe this should already have happened during the fade. Once cannabis dries out there are a number of water soluble terpenes which are broken, and you're correct how they do not re-hydrate and continue curing after this.

How to increase marijuana scent and flavour?

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