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Tour of a 502 Grow: Legal Recreational Cannabis

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
Recently I had the opportunity to drive to Yakima and check out the legal 502 recreational scene. I learned quite a bit. Mostly that the state fucked the growers and consumers over when they did away with the medical cannabis shops and growers.
My friend with the grow has been through spectacular failure after failure. As have most of the 502 growers. It does help that he's more of a businessman then a farmer.
He's the kind of guy the state wants in their 502 program. Has connections and experience making money. He's been smoking pot since his college days, growing legally has always been a dream. He has the finances to follow through on it and is serious enough about making money he's willing to do what it takes to make a profit.
He's learned that it's farming like growing any other crop. He's made cut after cut after cut of expenses until he's down to a bare bones crew of 6. He's doing light deprivation with hoop houses under the powerful Eastern Washington sun.
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He plugs them in, starts them flowering immediately. It's all bottom line, any Veg time is a waste. He gets the clones cheap, $3 or less each. Uses a bulk chemical hydroponic-like bloom fertilizer. Since cannabis is not approved by the FDA it can't be certified organic so he sees no point in using organic sources. Plus it would be too expensive.
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His flowers smelled nice, he had good strains. Purple Glue was my favorite wonderful sweet skunky smell. He had quite a few rows of CBD strains.
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He had just put in his natural sun 'main run' crop. They were rows of scraggy little clones. Just from Vegging through July he'll have a big harvest in October the sun over there is incredible.
His entire harvest is converted to Hash Oil. He sells it direct to the manufacturer for $200 a pound. Yes that's right ounces used to go for $300 an ounce and he's selling pounds at $200. Welcome to the legal cannabis world.
He can't afford to pay trimmers. It's too much overhead. The only way he can turn a profit is to make it into oil. The drying and trimming is by far the biggest cost.
He can't afford to grow big plants, he wants to grow small plants with small buds. He says the buyers only care about THC%. They don't care about anything else. Terpenes, color, organic, all that shit is meaningless now. Larger buds have more plant matter which means lower THC levels. They will only buy the highest THC strains so he had plenty of Bruce Banner.
The state has the growers weigh and dispose of the leaves and stems. So handling and destroying all that plant matter is a large cost. Small plants produce less leaves and stems. It's another reason for his light deprivation and late start on his main run.
He was proud he didn't use pesticides, I was glad he didn't. Everyone has broad mites the clone dealers have seen to that. He had predatory mites he's looking into ways to keep them around because most of the time they have nothing to eat.
The entire time we were in the field there was a plane circling the sky above us. He said there's more DEA agents in Yakima County then almost anywhere else. I don't know what the plane was doing but there certainly wasn't anything to look from up there. Besides ganja fields. He had hundreds of cameras everywhere. The state seems a bit paranoid.
It was good to see he'd figured out how to succeed and make a profit. Fun to see thousands of ganja plants. Otherwise it was a depressing trip, kind of like a smack in the gut.
He told me the Tier 1 growers have been selling at a loss to take out the small growers. He thinks it's just a matter of time until the price drops to hops prices, $20 a pound. Lots of hops in the field next door.
I estimate the cost for trimmers alone is $200 a pound. He's selling pounds at that rate. With the cheapest chemicaliest fertilizer. With small light deprivation plants, tiny buds, mass production, high THC % is all that matters. Everyone who hasn't made these adaptations is out.
If you're thinking of getting a 502 license think it over long and hard it ain't your old time grow show. Sad to see the future of the plant I love getting perverted by legalization.
Glad I've got my medical card I'd hate to buy the shit from those Rec shops.
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green404

Member
^Nice write up.

It is interesting to see cannabis turn into another commercial agriculture product. Many people are predicting concentrates and oil is the next big thing.

$200. a lb is like .50 a gram and to think it will probably go to the price of hops $20. a lb that would be .05 a gram. Seems like any money would be in marketing, packaging and retail.
 
Thanks for letting us know whats going on there, and whats soon to come.
Very disgusting, but what do you expect when money and people come together.

Do the tier 1 folks really need to push out the small growers? Would that really make an impact?
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
Yeah those tier 1 growers are some greedy motherfuckers.
A couple other things I didn't cover. He said all the weighing and bagging is automated now. Too much of an expense to pay someone to sit there weighing and sealing the packets. To be profitable you have to buy a machine that does it.
He also says freeze drying is becoming the big thing. They're realizing they can save time and money. He says it's a decent product, gets you stoned and tastes all right. A bit crumbly but not to the point it ruins the pot.
It amazes me how quickly everyone has switched to buying from the Rec stores. I imagined there'd be vestiges of the black and medical markets but every stoner I know buys from the stores. Even if the store is more expensive people like the convenience and 'selection'.
It's so strange to me. It turns out to be just another commodity like Gatorade and bubblegum. The people who think it's somehow special, there's a spiritual connection between the plant and the consumer are fooling themselves. Most people don't see the weed they smoke as any different then a six pack of Budweiser.
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
The state of Washington and the voters of the state are entirely to blame. The medical people campaigned their asses off to save their livelihood and their industry. The state voters and legislature ignored them and this is the result. Pot is legal, we won yeah. Growing is illegal, possession of over 42 grams is illegal, both are felonies. Only a few people are allowed to grow and those people have to push balls to the walls to make a profit.
I forgot to mention how big the crop is, how many rows of ganja there were. There were dozens of rows like the ones in the picture. Next time I'll try to get some perspective to show how huge it is.
He had over a thousand lbs that was going to be ready in 3 weeks. Took him 8 weeks to grow. Then another batch goes in another thousand lbs.
I'm guessing the final run will be 4000 lbs. It's crazy. I can't imagine how much tier 1 producers are doing, does anyone know? 20-50,000 lbs seems credible. I've heard some stats that I don't quite remember but tier 1 producers may be growing 70% of the ganja in the state.
Is this really better then the black market? The casual smoker doesn't have to worry about getting a misdemeanor. Those evil black marketeers are eliminated so we can get high with a clear conscious, knowing we paid taxes and the profits don't go to the middle east to fund terrorists.
From what my buddy said a lot of growers are using chemicals to control broad mites. There is no effort to grow organically. At least the average consumer has a choice now. Not sure how great that choice is.
Damnit I'm getting preachy and bitchy. I need a beer. Washington said it made the laws it did to be a model of how legalization should be. When the rest of the country goes legal legislatures will look to the wisdom of Washington and how they did things the right way and copy that model. Fuck that.
 
A

AVOH

Is this really better then the black market? The casual smoker doesn't have to worry about getting a misdemeanor. Those evil black marketeers are eliminated so we can get high with a clear conscious, knowing we paid taxes and the profits don't go to the middle east to fund terrorists.
From what my buddy said a lot of growers are using chemicals to control broad mites. There is no effort to grow organically. At least the average consumer has a choice now. Not sure how great that choice is.
Damnit I'm getting preachy and bitchy. I need a beer. Washington said it made the laws it did to be a model of how legalization should be. When the rest of the country goes legal legislatures will look to the wisdom of Washington and how they did things the right way and copy that model. Fuck that.


So its a bad thing to be a black markter?
Wow i wonder how many on icmag would disagree with this lol
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
I manage to abuse Poe's Law too often on this site. Around here there's quite a few people who don't speak English as a first language, I'm thinking that and all the bong hits add to the confusion.
Poe's Law is discussed more often on sciencey intellectual sort of sites I'll look at occasionally. This is it: Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake for the genuine article.
This covers all sorts of facetious or cynical humor, both terms people have mistakenly used when describing me.
I checked out a couple of the 502 websites. Sure enough pounds are going at .40 cents a gram. Indoor is going for $1.25 which ain't much better. I'd chalk up almost the entire outdoor harvest going to oil, I can't imagine properly trimmed cannabis going for that price. As far as indoor how does that cover the light bill?
I also compared tier 1 to tier 3, the farm I toured was tier 3. A lot of tier 1 farms aren't making shit, you can see who the big boys are. If I had money I'd be buying up licenses and putting them on cool down. Squeezing down the production instead of increasing it.
Washington needs an OPEC. Everyone is doing the opposite, prices drop so they ramp up production because they think it will increase their profit. Stupid stupid.
 

EvergreenState

Active member
As a Washington state resident and a guy who has lived in seven states, I can tell you that Washington is the most overly regulated and oppressive state I've ever seen.

I was a Democrat and a liberal all my life but this state made me see the dark side of that philosophy. You can talk all you want about hard core right wing states but hard core left wing states like Washington want to know all about your business, public and private and then it wants to tell you all of the things it will and will not allow you to do. It's oppressive.
It's all about the state and how much of a cut it is going to take to fund all of the programs it has created to further it's philosophy. How it has handled marijuana is a perfect example of that. Look what it has done to our beautiful plant. Turned it into low grade, cheap oil.

Run for the hills because he's with the government and he's here to help.
 

Badfishy1

Active member
As a Washington state resident and a guy who has lived in seven states, I can tell you that Washington is the most overly regulated and oppressive state I've ever seen.

I was a Democrat and a liberal all my life but this state made me see the dark side of that philosophy. You can talk all you want about hard core right wing states but hard core left wing states like Washington want to know all about your business, public and private and then it wants to tell you all of the things it will and will not allow you to do. It's oppressive.
It's all about the state and how much of a cut it is going to take to fund all of the programs it has created to further it's philosophy. How it has handled marijuana is a perfect example of that. Look what it has done to our beautiful plant. Turned it into low grade, cheap oil.

Run for the hills because he's with the government and he's here to help.

The whole system is whack. To be fair, I believe most people fall, for sake of conversation somewhere in the center. Extreme anything, left, right, religion, or whatever only lends to prejudices and hate... what I find to be a bit ironic is how the process plays out... goes from complete prohibition to medical use. To get to medical, it’s the growers who push the ‘my patients rights’ agenda... state votes, law passes everything is fine. Next political cycle the ‘business men’ and profiteers come in pushing the ‘bottom line’ agenda... so basically the business men allow the medical industry to open the doors then storm in guns ablaze and rob the small growers and the patients that truly need the medicine all for a dollar
 

green404

Member
Oils and concentrates are the worst thing ever, they are creating a market for weed that would be a hard sell otherwise.

That is what consumers are asking for. Not everyone wants a big hit of plant material smoke with their thc. Concentrates have been evolving very fast now you can buy clean nice concentrates at a very reasonable price.

Weed looking really good and being a skilled grower used to matter. With concentrates your buds can look like total unsellable garbage and it doesn't matter because it all just gets blasted.

Today is a new level of "skilled". It takes much more skill to grow 1000+ plants and manage 30+ strains then it does to do a basement grow. 30 plants(weeds) in a basement takes nothing, any idiot can do it.

It's a new game, that take professional level skills in growing and project management.
 

Mengsk

Active member
Assuming all of the info in the OP is correct, I would personally refrain from saying much. Big state grow lots of revenue and I'm sure lots of customers so is it a good or bad thing or in between or neither.


Anyone promoting outdoor organic "clean green" best practices will still have customers I would say. Squeezing the numbers as in pounds of oil, this will be reflected in the product, so the good growers will have better product. The chromatography machine can be used at CT or Berkeley.
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
I know the pictures don't look impressive, mostly because the plants are 3 feet tall, and the bud is 3 weeks from harvest. It's quality the way hydroponic seems like quality. Nothing like Mex or seedy or brick or anything. I'm guessing most of the crop is 30% THC potent sinsemilla green bud. Basically the same as decent hydro except outdoors. Had a nice smell but it's chemical grown so it's limited. Strains are top of the potency scale Bruce Banner, Glue, etc.
As I explained earlier the buyers only care about THC %. Has to be over 20% THC to sell. The buds have to be small because less plant matter means higher THC. Also the grower has to pay to dispose of leaves and stem. So the smaller the plants the less wasted $$.
The plants aren't vegged really. They come as dinky sickly broad mite infested clones. Pop them in the ground for eight weeks and harvest. Make into concentrate and repeat. It's Eastern Washington wine, hop, and apple country so it's bone dry and 90 degrees F every day. Perfect for growing ganja.
There was quite a bit of high CBD for the medical trade. I'll say again I'm glad they aren't using pesticides, they've managed to solve the problem with predatory mites.
I'll say again this isn't what the grower originally had in mind when he got the 502 license. He's lost a lot of money the last 5 years growing big organic plants. This is the only way to make money in the system the state has created. There's a lot of broke former growers who learned the hard way. I don't see how it's possible to produce manicured flowers that are sellable for .40 cents a gram.
 
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MountZionCollec

Active member
I know the pictures don't look impressive, mostly because the plants are 3 feet tall, and the bud is 3 weeks from harvest. It's quality the way hydroponic seems like quality. Nothing like Mex or seedy or brick or anything. I'm guessing most of the crop is 30% THC potent sinsemilla green bud. Basically the same as decent hydro except outdoors. Had a nice smell but it's chemical grown so it's limited. Strains are top of the potency scale Bruce Banner, Glue, etc.
As I explained earlier the buyers only care about THC %. Has to be over 20% THC to sell. The buds have to be small because less plant matter means higher THC. Also the grower has to pay to dispose of leaves and stem. So the smaller the plants the less wasted $$.
The plants aren't vegged really. They come as dinky sickly broad mite infested clones. Pop them in the ground for eight weeks and harvest. Make into concentrate and repeat. It's Eastern Washington wine, hop, and apple country so it's bone dry and 90 degrees F every day. Perfect for growing ganja.
There was quite a bit of high CBD for the medical trade. I'll say again I'm glad they aren't using pesticides, they've managed to solve the problem with predatory mites.
I'll say again this isn't what the grower originally had in mind when he got the 502 license. He's lost a lot of money the last 5 years growing big organic plants. This is the only way to make money in the system the state has created. There's a lot of broke former growers who learned the hard way. I don't see how it's possible to produce manicured flowers that are sellable for .40 cents a gram.


Thanks for creating this thread.

So the .40 cents a gram, or $182 a pound he is making is that $182 cover all of his expenses-taxes-fees as well? In my county in California we have a $45 dollar a pound tax and at the state level we have $148 a pound tax and then their are other fees and compliance costs so at $193 a pound in county and state cannabis taxes alone would exceed .40 cents a gram.

Were banned in my county this year but I'm trying to plan it out to see if it can be profitable for me next year as its looking like we will have regulations again in 2019 or 2020, Washington prices are where Cali prices will soon be so I'm trying to understand better what u mean by .40 cents a gram.

From my current plans seems like anything under 1/2 acre can't be profitable. I'm hoping my county will allow farmers to join multiple onto one property so a few of us can share the land costs and some infrastructure when possible.
 
N

naturalbornkilr

This thread seems more like an advertisement than a write up about a tour. I also think , as do others, that is a mids factory. Theres a reason its selling for 200 and only for oil, because its not the quality to sell as flower on the shelf, which as previously pointed out, poor grade unsellable flowers(nobody wants washington outdoor) that were able to be disguised under the cloak of hash oil are what ruined the market.

Growing small plants makes sense for turnaround time and ease of maintenance but they whole "small plants small buds equals less leaf and more thc" is the most outrageously ridiculous thing Ive ever heard, its no wonder he's/you're loosing money because anyone that believes that has no idea what they're talking about and no right trying to run a marijuana business.
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
Don't know what I'm trying to sell, government chemical grown hash oil? Who's? Yeah come to the Evergreen State and smoke some ganja that tastes like someone's nasty basement hydroponics. Yay.
It's not a theory the labs get higher readings for smaller flowers from the same plant. Less plant matter so there's more resin. It's another way the growers can cheat the system and the consumer. These guys have had thousands of tests done, they know what they're doing.
The consumer is foolish enough to believe that a few percentage points will make him higher. At the stores you can't smell pot, just look at it. So if it's covered in crystals and has a high THC % people buy it. Most people buy an eighth or a gram so it's another reason not to grow big nugs. Someone sees a one gram nug covered in crystals and 30% THC they buy it. There are no other market considerations.
Summer time light deprivation is pretty high quality, lots of sun and high temperatures. Eastern Washington is so hot and dry it's hard not to grow decent stuff.
It's getting turned to oil because they make more money that way not because the quality is bad. Not sure where you guys keep getting that idea. It wasn't amazing or spectacular or anything but the same as good hydroponic. I wouldn't want to smoke it, more then a bowl of it. I think chemical grown is shitty, I only smoke and grow good organic kill. To me the rest of it is mostly crap. Is that an advertisement?
I'm sure at their main harvest in October they'll have so much they have to trim and sell some of it instead of selling it direct to the processor. The logistics are impressive. Trimming, drying, dealing with, 4000 lbs is crazy to think about. This is where the ganja loses quality not on the stem. Drying in barns with 90 degree F weather and extremely low humidity. What a bitch it must be.
Plus paying people to gather the thousands and thousands of pounds of stems and leaves to weigh, note down, and take to the dump to incinerate.
I know what this is an advertisement for. You may be thinking about a career in the cannabis industry. You may be an expert grower, living in an illegal state. Worried about betting busted by the man.
You are considering moving to a legal, medical state where you can make thousands of dollars growing the best ganja for everyone. Thinking about all the accolades and gold medal ribbons you will win at the County Fair.
Don't move to Washington. There's too many people here. If you're an indoor grower you won't be able to pay your light bill with what you grow. If you're an outdoor grower you'll work your fingers to the bone to produce enough pot to cover the leases and mortgages on your property. The market is so shitty you'll end up a bud tender in Tacoma or Everett or Ritzville for a rich guy who's got 40 other stores across the state..
 

Medfinder

Chemon 91
welcome to the evolving cannabis scene.

this grower is paying his bills.

land water taxes etc.

if this is the model and the future then there will be modifications to maximise EVEN MORE.

at least its legal in some states rather than doing 10 years for 101 plants.

bet the oil is heady. :dance013:
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
Thanks for creating this thread.

So the .40 cents a gram, or $182 a pound he is making is that $182 cover all of his expenses-taxes-fees as well? In my county in California we have a $45 dollar a pound tax and at the state level we have $148 a pound tax and then their are other fees and compliance costs so at $193 a pound in county and state cannabis taxes alone would exceed .40 cents a gram.

Were banned in my county this year but I'm trying to plan it out to see if it can be profitable for me next year as its looking like we will have regulations again in 2019 or 2020, Washington prices are where Cali prices will soon be so I'm trying to understand better what u mean by .40 cents a gram.

From my current plans seems like anything under 1/2 acre can't be profitable. I'm hoping my county will allow farmers to join multiple onto one property so a few of us can share the land costs and some infrastructure when possible.

There's several grow 'companies' leasing a chunk of land a local farmer provides. The growers work together to buy fertilizer, clones, hoses, drying equipment, etc. During the grow period a couple guys can turn the water on/off, operate the light deprivation hoop houses, manage the guard cameras, so everyone doesn't have to be there 24/7. I'm thinking at harvest time they probably use the same crews. The local migrant labor finishes it's hop and apple harvest a couple weeks earlier so they're happy for the work.
I noticed there were several parcels that were empty. I forgot to ask him about it. Maybe people between harvests still plenty of time to plug more clones. Or failures.
The tax question is a good one I forgot to ask. I'll see if I can get an answer. I'm thinking the buyer pays the 'sales tax' and the grower has to pay an excise tax? On the total amount he ends up selling? So half of the $.40 could go to the state? $100 a lb is fucking nuts. I'm guessing in California you need to plan on growing well over a 1000 pounds to stay afloat let alone make a profit. Especially if growers are low balling to drive the less wealthy ones out of business.
One problem they were having, the tiers work according to canopy space. They have a smaller tier so less canopy space. They had filled their canopy space plus some. They were worried about the inspectors charging a fee (fine I guess?) for going over the set limits. The way he said it makes me think canopy space is taxed.
I googled Washington state 502 producers for information and found a lot of data posted by the state. Check it out lots of interesting stuff about how much money everyone is making or not making.
Besides the statistics the state also had a spot producers, processors, and retailers could do business. Depressing seeing all the low offers the trip out there was kind of like a punch in the gut. I've held out hope that at some point I'd be able to retire out of town to a nice acreage with good water, lots of fruit trees, with a 502 license. Grow the best and make enough to live comfortably.
Looks more and more like a pipe dream. My friend said something that really pissed me off. He was making fun of a 502 fuckup guy, saying he was still doing business the old fashioned way people used to do it in the industry. I'm thinking to myself yeah that's how you do business, a handshake is good enough. Now you've got to have a lawyer write up a contract, cover your ass because everyone is out for themselves. It looks like something I don't want any part of.
When they were starting it there was talk of setting price limits. A grower would get at least $2 a gram, processor $4, something like that. With numbers like that you could run a little farm and get by.
People think pot should be the same price as other commodities, it's not realistic. To grow reasonably decent pot requires quite a bit of time and $.
 

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