Coco in an Ikea Cab

whoa!!! thanks for those impressive macros!!! I'm afraid that sadhu is a male too...

The clones rockwool cubes are hardly an inch. They look rather worse now no roots sticking out yet.

Just bought a couple more somangos and will sprout them ASAP.

I got also some dolomite lime, as I have noticed what looks like mag def in seedlings, and my tap water EC is 0.2, they usually grow fine once they're older, but want to nail everything as optimal as I could. Thinking on using it as a coco amendment in the future and for foliar spray now.

Here's a Kali Mist, I have 2, exactly same nutes, care, etc. One is smaller, show no nute defs, leafs straight. the other one while growing faster and being almost an inch taller, shows this and is more droopy in general, though its root system is awesome, I transplanted to 2L bottles yesterday and its roots grew an inch in just one day!!







I will check again for girls today and will transplant to 7L pots the confirmed ones.

thanks a lot for the encouragement!

that is signs of ph related nute lock-out as far as i can see.

I feed both Kali Mists from the same reservoir mix... PH is regulated... I've seen this same problem always just on the fastest growing, bigger plants of every batch, just that not that noticeable as with this Kali Mist.

I feeded it with just some dolomite, very light dose added to the water...

I be adding a tablespoon dolomite lime per gal of coco as an amendment in the future, to determine if that was the problem...

Will do a flush today and check runoff PH also.

This saturday (1 week in flower) I was able to finally sex most plant but the underdeveloped (my fault, it tangled itself when sprouting in peat tabs) Kalichakra #1.

I culled 4 confirmed males, Sadhu 4,5,2 and Kalichakra 4. In fact the fastest biggest one, Sadhu #5 turned out male. I transplanted confirmed girls to 7L square pots, adding pinchs of dolomite lime as I was filling coir, about 1 tbs spoon to each pot in total. Guess the HPS makes things look worse, but all looked pale green, slightly yellow, hope the dolomite, stronger feeding and bigger pots makes them greener.

I feeded them with slightly higher EC, 1.3 w/ some rhizotonic and a 1/5 strentgh SuperBud dose in addition to the A+B.

Received a replacement PHmeter for my misbehaving Hanna, calibrated it and used it on saturday feeding... I rechecked it yesterday to feed the Kali Mists and it was off again recalibrated it, but I'm losing my faith on these PHmeters completely, I'd be better not regulating PH at all as I guess PH swing is bad, while a steady not-optimal PH is better? gonna get another brand PH meter.

The Kali Mist that showed defs seem to like the added dolomite, is growing like mad. also showed a very tiny preflower with just a month and a day old, does that mean it's going to be a fast flowering pheno? By the looks I'm afraid is going to be a male. Just 4 days since I transplanted them to 2L bottles and root growth on both has been explosive, they've filled the bottle and waterings last just one day... I may take some cuts this week and if there's any female it will go to the flowering tent by next weekend. Kali Mist #2 is lushy green and while less than an inch smaller, looks way healthier. Feeded both last night with dolomite lime suplement and some ATA XL, EC 1.2.

The cloning has been a success so far for a newbie, all but the Skunks cuts showed plenty of roots underneath the rockwool cubes by friday. I transplanted the biggest one, from Kalichakra #1 to coco and feeded it with EC 0.7, will check tonight if all went well and transplant the rest of female clones. I have added an "iguana cable" underneath the cloning tupperware, it turns on for 10 minutes every hour, hopefully this will speed rooting. The sadhus were clearly the fastest rooting ones.

My luck the biggest Kalichakra was a girl... all the kalichakras but one (apart from the runt) look more on the sativa side; the smallest one looks a lot like sadhus, with fat leafs, etc.

Only one of the two new Somangos I started directly in coco have sprouted that makes 2 in 5 total... Looks like a slow strain however or I may just have got a bad batch.

will post some pics tonight.

repuk said:

Hi Bonecarver_OG! thanks for passing by What do you think about the lightning? will 8000 lumens (2x55 Watt) be too much for vegging?

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just saw that one - for sure it will be ok but as allways - the more light the merrier depends a lot on the space - for a 50 x 150 cm i use about 200-250W or more.

i see i u have opted for using dolomit lime.

its a bit surprising to see someone using that in coco.

i asure you the best results in coco are reached using as little aditives as possible. atleast using canna A+B i think no other aditives are really necesary.

one member of the Eden coop is from an area above the polare cirkle where the water is extremmely pure, and doesnt contain any disolved lime, but in no way was it necesary to ad anything besides A+B and a bit of PK.

its important to bear in mind most of the products available in the growshops are really just different variations of NPK - and adding them to the nute mix creates an off-balance in the nutes - that in its turn creates lock outs etc.

so in other words - adding more things than necesary, the whole game gets more complicated. one example;

CANNA AB contains all NPK necesary + trace minerals. when something like flowering boosters (high PK) are added - the higher levels of P and K can in their turn lock out others...

here a quote for example from the stitches guide that is pretty complete;

"Too much Phosphorus levels affect plant growth by suppressing the uptake of: Iron, potassium and Zinc, potentially causing deficiency symptoms of these nutrients to occur def in plants. A Zinc deficiency is most common under excessive phosphorus conditions,
As well as causing other nutrients to have absorption troubles like zinc and copper. Phosphorus fluctuates when concentrated and combined with calcium"

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so also you can see the fosforous combines with the calcium - this process is the chemical process that creates plaster (escayola).

"When you have too much Potassium in your soil, it can lead to big troubles, like salt damage and acid fixation of the root system, as well as too much potassium can cause a calcium deficiency. Your fan leaves will show like a light to a dark yellow to whitish color in between the veins. Due to a molecular imbalance, potassium toxicity can cause a reduced uptake and lead to the deficiencies of Mg, and in some cases, Ca. Also leads to the other nutrients to not be absorbed properly leading to lots of other deficiency such as: magnesium, manganese, zinc and iron and can cause problems with calcium as well."

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"Too much Calcium will lead to other micronutrient deficiencies. Calcium fixation is caused by many types of mediums such as: clay soils, unbuffered coco and humus. The lime tends to bond to these soils very easily. The stems of the plant will not be able to hold the plant up and will exhibit a white brown in between the veins of the leaves when having too much calcium. Also having to much potassium and or nitrogen will cause a calcium lockout."

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there you go..

read it and study it and i hope you change your method before it goes too wrong.

just wanted to share the experience we have in the EDEN-coop - we have been growing in coco for more than ten years all in all

peace

Thanks a lot for the tips!!! you know I follow your school!

I have been very conservative in nuting, EC 1, 1.1 maximum, always feeded with about 30% runoff, just the minimum (about 1ml/L) Atami B'Cuzz A+B dosage.

I think I'm done with Hanna, gonna dump it as I may have induced much more problems by PH swings due to the PH meter misbehaving than feeding unPHed nutes.

Time will tell... I was very conservative with the dolomite lime dosage, tried the lime with the Kali Mist and (maybe just a coincidence) it stretched madly and got a lushy green on the unaffected leaves...

I also changed coco, used Canna before but the growshop just had Atami this time. Will monitor new seedlings in this coco show nute defs or not. Have one somango in Canna coir and another one in Atami's... will feed the same to both somangos and watch how they develop.

I'm tempted to use non PH regulated mixes...

Some updates: All clones transplanted, confirmed Kalichakra #1 is a girl, so 8 girls in the flowering tent, I'll wait for the coco to dry to transplant from the 2L to 7L pot. It's an indica pheno with fat leaves similar to the Sadhus.

Both Kali Mists have tiny preflowers, but I'm afraid both are males

With female preflowers, what appears first, hairs or pre-calyxes?

The dolomite looks like having help with the overall green... haven't seen any signs of overfert.

Given the bad luck with the somangos (just 2 sprouted from 5, and look like both are runts) and the 2 male Kali Mists I was badly pissed off so I started 5 more Kali Mists... I put all the seedling pots them into the clone box, also rearranged the iguana cable to be always on, now temps at the bottom in the clone box range from 23-29C at any time, they ranged from 19 at night to 29 max.

I cut a couple clones from the Kali Mists just in case...



Here are my girls in its flowering tent @ second week, the Kalichakras are stretching like mad, I'm considering supercropping, is usually done in the main stem or only on branches?:

you can at this very moment just snip of all the tips - and you will get the branches to grow up more - and the stretch will halt a bit..

supercropping also works - do it a about 2 nodes down from the tip show no mercy! just squish it

the dolomite lime might work with out too much trouble lets hope so! as long as you dont feed anything too rich in Cal afterwards to avoid lockouts etc.

positive vibes

peace!

bonecarver_OG said:

you can at this very moment just snip of all the tips - and you will get the branches to grow up more - and the stretch will halt a bit..

supercropping also works - do it a about 2 nodes down from the tip show no mercy! just squish it

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I'm not completely sure how supercropping is done, should I just pinch & twist slightly the stem until i feel it collapses (w/o bending??) I understand the point is to intentionally damage its internal veins so that it heals and reinforces them?

the dolomite lime might work with out too much trouble lets hope so! as long as you dont feed anything too rich in Cal afterwards to avoid lockouts etc.

positive vibes

peace!

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Thanks!

I think nothing in my nutes contains too much Cal. I always nute on the low side, better safe than sorry!

repuk said:

With female preflowers, what appears first, hairs or pre-calyxes?

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With females you will see a pre-calyx before the hairs. Sometimes it will take a while for hairs to pop out. That can make it difficult to tell if it's male or female till there are some obvious signs.

btw, I didn't take these preflower pics, got them from the old OG FAQ at this site.

u can squeze the stem almost flat - even roll it between your fingers untill it goes crack. many ways

squeeze, bend and twist make sure u feel it breaking - but dont go too brutal hehe

have fun!

icough2getoff said:

With females you will see a pre-calyx before the hairs. Sometimes it will take a while for hairs to pop out. That can make it difficult to tell if it's male or female till there are some obvious signs.

btw, I didn't take these preflower pics, got them from the old OG FAQ at this site.

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Thanks for the pic!!! I checked them yesterday and by the very tiny preflower shape they may be girls. I'm almost sure both are the same sex, but the inverted "drop" shape looks a lot like females, they're opened also, something I haven't seen on male preflowers...

bonecarver_OG said:

u can squeze the stem almost flat - even roll it between your fingers untill it goes crack. many ways

squeeze, bend and twist make sure u feel it breaking - but dont go too brutal hehe

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thanks for the instructions

I supercropped all the Kalichakras but #1 that way, 2 nodes down the tip in the main stem. I may have fallen on the wimpy side but better safe than sorry I pinched the stem until I felt it crushed under my fingers, it just barely drooped afterwards. They're developing some serious stems! more than 1cm diameter...

The girls in the flowering tent are all getting hairy, specially the Kalichakras some budsites are appearing under a big fan leave, should I just prune those fan leaves?

The two sprouted somangos are the slowest plants I've ever seen, is this normal or did I get two runts? A third seed is ssssslooooowly sprouting. dunno if it will finally make it... if it does it will have taken more than a week to raise its head...

if u notice the suprecropping didnt get propperly done - i mean if the plant is just straight up the next day - yu can just do it again, and keep bending a bit more.

if a plant breaks its not a biggie - since a bit of painters tape fixes that. its almost rediculous the ability the cannabis has to heal it self

i hope the somango gets going! it sucks to buy seeds and get crap! hope they sort em self out

leave those fan leaves on

there is no point to pick of the "machine" the plant got for producing energy . the big fan leafs are big for a reason - its the whole energy plant of the plants.

if you take them of - the smaller leaf in the tips will grow out more and the plant looses energy to try to fix the in-ballance.

well thats my cut on it - some ppl swear on the oposite - but honestly there is no proof for any benefit from picking of leafs.

i dont pick leaf of ever.. unless they get damaged and start falling off - thats when the plant it self has stopped using the leaf and its no problem any more.


hehe stems... one of the big moms of SSH x PTK i got flowering now got a stem thicker than my thumb

bonecarver_OG said:

if u notice the suprecropping didnt get propperly done - i mean if the plant is just straight up the next day - yu can just do it again, and keep bending a bit more.

if a plant breaks its not a biggie - since a bit of painters tape fixes that. its almost rediculous the ability the cannabis has to heal it self

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so if properly done, the tip should completely droop? I mean, like breaking it by the inside? Does it straighten up by itself when it heals?

bonecarver_og said:

i hope the somango gets going! it sucks to buy seeds and get crap! hope they sort em self out

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I wish!!! I'd add it sucks to buy way expensive seeds to get the poorest germ ratios and highest runt count! Hope it's just a slow start strain... and there is a gem in those two

bonecarver_og said:

leave those fan leaves on

there is no point to pick of the "machine" the plant got for producing energy . the big fan leafs are big for a reason - its the whole energy plant of the plants.

if you take them of - the smaller leaf in the tips will grow out more and the plant looses energy to try to fix the in-ballance.

well thats my cut on it - some ppl swear on the oposite - but honestly there is no proof for any benefit from picking of leafs.

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that's also my way of thought, those leaves are there as some sort of energy plants next to the "production" factories. I thought on crushing/bending/tying the fan leaf stem so that it doesn't shade the budsite...

thx!

repuk said:

so if properly done, the tip should completely droop? I mean, like breaking it by the inside? Does it straighten up by itself when it heals?...

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I always wondered about that. I'd like to try to supercrop just to slow down the stretch. Usually in the first week of 12/12 you can tell if the plant is getting too tall, with excessive spaces between nodes. Would stem crushing slow down the stretch? I don't want to permanently kink the stem, just slow things down to achieve a more compact structure.

once them stem heals the extra growth hormones will make the tips a bit more dense is the theory..

some people show more care than others.. mostly the tips stand up again if its a thick stemmed plant. some more thinner ones they keep at a 90 degree angle.

dont worry just dont chop it off and if it breaks completelly a bit of ducttape fixes that hehe

as i said it heals

some plants recuperate in a few days and need an other go after a few days. this can also be done to branches etc to make em shorter too.

pace

petemoss, I supercropped the Kalichakras two days in a row, the first time I was afraid of damaging them, the second time I was way more aggressive, but the next day the little bitches looked and felt to the touch as if nothing ever happened!!! apart from slight different color... impressive healing abilities.

The two Kali Mists (1month & 1 week old) develop slowly their preflowers. They're the size of a pin head. I took some macros to see magnifying them would help, but don't know what to think, what do you?

Kali #1 preflowers, looks like 2nd pic left side male ones in the icough2getoff posted pics:



100% Crop:



Kali #2 preflowers



Kali #2 preflowers 100% crop

repuk, I can see a hair emerging from the pre-calyx in your second pic (100% crop). Kali #2 is not showing hairs yet, though the shape of the pre-flower suggests that it may be female also. Check again in a few days or check a different node for hairs. Two of my LUI clones showed white hairs in the second week of flower. But after a couple of days, male flowers appeared also! - hermies. So you need to recheck periodically to make sure the "females" stay 100%female!

I agree with bonecarver about leaving fan leaves alone. Whenever I cut a fan leaf, I noticed the buds near the cut leaf develop slower and end up smaller compared to the buds near leaves not cut. In late flower, say the last two weeks, you can remove fan leaves that are blocking the light to bud sites. But first I'd try to tuck the leaf to the side or trim half of the leaf.

The Kali Mists were growing more than I first wanted for a unknown stretch (to me) sativa, so I cut clones and put the two to flower yesterday. At least it looks the iguana cable optimized my cloning chamber, the first cuts I took about a week ago are green and very healthy, straight leafts, etc.

The first now in flower clone batch is starting to take off. As I don't know which ones will end like moms I'll start to do tip pruning and LST to control its size, I'd like to make bonsai moms... will have to look for intructive posts on that.

I feeded all the flowering girls on friday, brought each one outside and took a while watching them and getting to know each other

I used EC 1.6, giving another dose of SuperBud (PK) and ATA XL.

One plant stood out from the rest to me: The Skunk Express #2. It's not too tall, and its structure was very homogeneous, airy, it's plenty of side branches reaching for the top with budsites on their tops from bottom to top, side to side. It's noticeably the fastest flowering of the bunch, looks like 3 to 4 weeks faster. Has lots and lots of budsites all over it...

Its sister Skunk #1 look the most sativa of all the plants I've grown, including the Kali Mists, with very thin leaves, airy structure (though less perfect) and slightly taller than Skunk Express #2. All plants have a very nice, lush green, but this one from the start have lighter green on leaves interveinal spaces.

Sadhu #1 is the slowest of them all, very few pistils, a very squat plant, with null internodal spaces, it's heavily stacked.

Sadhu #3 has given the most vigorous clones, is also the taller of the sadhu females, with airy structure and the fastest sadhu growing speed.

Kalichakra #2 is the fastest and tallest of the kalichakras, I have supercropped it three times, last time I went slightly brutal and I left it at 90 degrees, half broken, to come the next day to my surprise finding it not only healed but straight!!! it looks also the most sensitive to nute levels, has some leaves claw-looking. Its structure reminds to the Skunk Express #2, I supercrop also on side branches. Slowest flowering than Skunk Express however.

Kalichakra #5 is the most indica looking of the Kalichakras, very fat leaves, good growth, almost as tall as Kalichakra #2.

Kalichakra #3 is in between #2 and #5, leaves not too thin nor fat, same flowering speed.

Kalichakra #1 was the one stunted but is fastly reaching their sisters. Is the one that gave fastest clones, which leads me to believe that the root tangling it suffered from seedling that stunted it may come as its the most vigorous of them all; if it hasn't tangled it may be the biggest of them. We'll see..

The skunks however are a month older than the rest, I started them outdoors in soil and had some problems including white fly, etc... dunno if their "maturity" is the reason of their fastest flowering, or they honour its name Skunk Express... will ask the seed bank guys tomorrow to see their lineage.