Help and tips making shatter and honeycomb

deeppurple87 · Aug 18, 2015

Hey guys. I recently got a 3 gallon aluminum Vac chamber, digital heat pad, and 5 cfm dual stage pump.

I have been experimenting with making my own shatter, because I love concentrates, yet there are no medical quality concentrates in my state yet (that I can access.)
I went to the first legal dispensary and they only had overpriced bud.

All the shatter I have purchased, has either been unpurged or poorly purged. I suspected this, but it was proven when I put some samples in my chamber.
So now I purge it myself. I have a bit of chem knowledge so I figured why not? Posted some pics of what I have been able to achieve, based off the knowledge on these forums. Special thanks to Gray Wolf, your posts have been very helpful.

I keep my oil below 115 (meaning below 121 on the digital heat pad) and purge, stretch and flip until there are no more large bubbles. Usually 5-24 hours with 7 gram batches. I usually get a shatter or sap.

The 1st pic is Juicy fruit

2nd OG

3rd Sour Diesel

deeppurple87 · Aug 18, 2015

I am getting better at making shatter, now that I get to keep the temps low... but I am curious now how to achieve honeycomb. From all that I have read it is basically aerated shatter.

However some waxes I have been getting lately, like in this picture (OG) are so sticky and goopy, maybe a little re-soliditation and crumbliness wouldn't be bad? They are a pain in the arse to manage, as they will stick to anything even cooled down... So I would prefer a manageable degraded crumble, to a unmanageable wax.

My problem is I read to make real honeycomb/crumble, "I need to heat up to 135 and vac for eight hours." From my experience with the hotter the oil, the more sticky and gooey it gets.

I have not tested this for fear of permagoo. how would you get this stuff in this pic to crumble,

I have already thin film purged for several hours, so almost all the solvent is out (I would vape it at this point). What next???

Sleepiesthead · Aug 18, 2015

For honey comb you purge like normal then whip itup and throw in oven at partial vac then heat up to 120 should take a few hours to dry out in a honeycomb structure

deeppurple87 · Aug 18, 2015

Sleepiesthead said:
For honey comb you purge like normal then whip itup and throw in oven at partial vac then heat up to 120 should take a few hours to dry out in a honeycomb structure

How do you recommend whipping. I have read everything from dab tools as drill bits to using wooden toothpicks, but I have never done this before

partial vac like -25 inHG? -29?

Thanks again

deeppurple87 · Aug 18, 2015

I need some more detailed instructions please. whipping temp, vigor, and time (could gassing and degassing replace whipping?)

What pressure am I looking for?

Do I let cool while still under vacuum? ( I have tried this with wax before and just got a thicker patty (but not any less sticky)
I have a safe, usable product right now (just too sticky.) I need more specific instructions if i am to degrade my product, in hopes for a \ more solid product... (honeycomb/crumble) at room temp.

Anybody know how to make killer crumble? Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks again!

treemel · Aug 19, 2015

help

help

deeppurple87 said:
I need some more detailed instructions please. whipping temp, vigor, and time (could gassing and degassing replace whipping?)

What pressure am I looking for?

Do I let cool while still under vacuum? ( I have tried this with wax before and just got a thicker patty (but not any less sticky)
I have a safe, usable product right now (just too sticky.) I need more specific instructions if i am to degrade my product, in hopes for a \ more solid product... (honeycomb/crumble) at room temp.

Anybody know how to make killer crumble? Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks again!

Hey we get it ovens are great im jealous I want one but how about starting a new thread for ovens. This guy never got an answer for which I'm curious as well please im trying to make honeycomb cookies light in color and dry to the touch but my result is dark and sticky fruit roll up type substance please any help would be great on what we are doing wrong.

treemel · Aug 19, 2015

my bad thought I was reading next page and was a new thread

deeppurple87 · Aug 19, 2015

treemel said:
my bad thought I was reading next page and was a new thread

Np at all! All the more likely Graywolf or another master on here, will hear our plea, and help out with some chemistry knowledge.

I know this question has been asked about 6 times... at least, on this forum. I have read through all the threads regarding honeycomb/crumble and many about shatter too.

The problem is there are too many debating viewpoints, and no real specific instructions. Most people say "there are no instructions, because each wax is different." I am sure this is true, but there must be guidelines, or starting procedures for the honeycomb process.

even some crumble pics, with info on how it was made would be helpful.

From what I am reading, I think we need to just go longer under less intense vac, like -28.

Please Help! I have a beautiful baby on the way, and I don't want to mess her up in the shatter making process.
(she is just one Green poison plant Scrogged out)

deeppurple87 · Aug 20, 2015

So I practiced making honeycomb out of about 3.5 grams of og sap/shatter, more sap than shatter.
1st pic

I heated up to about 117 (125 on my digital heat pad) lightly whipped the material and left under heavy vaccum -29.9+ for about 8 hours. I initially gassed and degassed until the muffin stayed with the silicone cup, than basically left it.

I managed to get some crumble on top, that broke into, stable pieces of honey comb wax. 2nd and 3rd pic

The bottom of the muffin (about half, however was sticky still.) 4th pic
I scraped it all up and put into a ball, re-whipped and left overnight at low temp and -29.5
vac. It still was a waxy goop muffin. Going to retry whipping and vaccuming again, turning the heat back up in hopes to turn into something that wont adhere to the bottom.

Still looking for advice and tips.

What happened here? to hot, to cold, too much time? not enough whippig? I have seen people pull off solid crumble cookies, but this is the best I could do so far.

Thanks again!

MrSpectre · Aug 20, 2015

When whipping it will usually start to change color and get a little lighter after a while (at least for me) and that's when I stop whipping. What they are saying about the oven pressure is that since its already been purged you don't need to take it all the way to -29.9mmHg you can just whip it and put it in the vac and pull the vac until it looks the way you want it then close the vac and let it set. The longer you leave it the drier it should be for you.

deeppurple87 · Aug 20, 2015

MrSpectre said:
When whipping it will usually start to change color and get a little lighter after a while (at least for me) and that's when I stop whipping. What they are saying about the oven pressure is that since its already been purged you don't need to take it all the way to -29.9mmHg you can just whip it and put it in the vac and pull the vac until it looks the way you want it then close the vac and let it set. The longer you leave it the drier it should be for you.

Great, thanks!! I have been purging that stuff I scraped off the bottom of the pic in the post above. Leaving it at 115-120... to no avail. What temp should I leave it so that it will harden it up??
I can maintain constant temps without, issue.
I have re whipped it a bunch of times and it won't really muffin even under full vac. (I even tried the dabber drill bit)

I am afraid I turned this half of the batch to permagoo. I currently have it at 118 and -29.5 and it looks like this (see the pic). Its been in there for a couple hours after re-whipping and its not getting hard yet. Looks like shiny brown poo

Advice?
Thanks again!

deeppurple87 · Aug 20, 2015

IDC if its brown, i just want it hard, not sticky.

deeppurple87 · Aug 20, 2015

Should I have left the original cookie on longer? or did I leave it on too long? the bottom and sides stayed adhered, to the silicone (as you can see in this pic). I want to just pick the whole cookie up in one piece, ya know?

deeppurple87 · Aug 21, 2015

So Several more hours later I have this. Permagoo : (

I wish I had just left it in there on the bottom. At least it looked neat, lol.

I am assuming it is because I have a digital heatpad and vac instead of oven, so all the heat comes from the bottom, it didn't cook evenly. Bottom got decarboxylated or something.

So strange the way heat can harden it, and turn it to goo

critter1685 · Aug 21, 2015

To get a light colored honeycomb you need fresh material. Fresher the better.

deeppurple87 · Aug 21, 2015

I am pleased with the color, just not that about .6 ended up as nice honeycomb, whereas the other 2.5-3 grams (that lined the bottom and edges) ended up as goo,

I just want a solid honeycomb. Is this achievable with a digital heatpad and chamber, or do you need an oven?

Anybody have success?

deeppurple87 · Aug 26, 2015

Made some goo crumble, not pretty but very solid. Was heat/vac purging some Goo shatter at 108f -29.9 Hg and some started to wax up after a couple hours.

The shatter was basically bubble free at -29.5 so I snapped off the un waxy parts and viola (I read somewhere if its not reacting at 115 -29.5 It is almost solvent free)

The waxy parts were already sticky so I layered with some of the cloudier parts of the shatter. Then I pulled a -29.5 vac and let sit at about 110f until it hardened in place. I can pick it up and at room temp it snaps and crumbles.
I bet if I had whipped it, it would have looked prettier but been less dense

It is much more manageable than the soft wax I was left with before, but looks nothing like what I am after.

Graywolf SOS BRO!
I am looking into better extraction methods.

I am deciding between a closed column, and open blast.

I want the closed column for extra yield, but I do not know much about winterization. Also open blast, I can use coffee filters as opposed to expensive 50 micron screens.

I read in another forum you did open blast with 2 coffee filters?

I need solid 1 oz extraction tube. Budget about 160. Can anybody help?

Thanks again!

furrywall11 · Aug 26, 2015

It looks like you're on the right track, DP....The thing is it's hard to give instructions on how to make honeycomb because each strain is a unique configuration of cannabinoids and terpenes that reacts differently from the previous one. You might want to play around with lower temps and whipping...I've had steady success with Blue Dream at 104-108 turning into honeycomb. Freshness of material is going to play a huge role too. If you have fresh, high grade material you pretty much can't help but create a great product out of it.

This is my favorite form of honeycomb...

This is some GSC extract more not the terpy wax side than honeycomb..

Some nug runs...that big fluffy one in the back was a hit

deeppurple87 · Aug 27, 2015

furrywall11 said:
It looks like you're on the right track, DP....The thing is it's hard to give instructions on how to make honeycomb because each strain is a unique configuration of cannabinoids and terpenes that reacts differently from the previous one. You might want to play around with lower temps and whipping...I've had steady success with Blue Dream at 104-108 turning into honeycomb. Freshness of material is going to play a huge role too. If you have fresh, high grade material you pretty much can't help but create a great product out of it.

This is my favorite form of honeycomb...
View attachment 330590

This is some GSC extract more not the terpy wax side than honeycomb..
View attachment 330591

Some nug runs...that big fluffy one in the back was a hit
View attachment 330592

Really Nice Bro!
Yea I am starting to figure that out. The better the starting material, the easier it is to get it to do what I want. Up until recently, my material was unpurged oil I got from a friend, but soon I will be harvesting my own, and will be able to start from scratch.

Purchased a closed column extractor. Plan to use cool temps to keep plant wax levels down.

Keep me posted on strains pressures times and temps, and Ill do the same. We have to make replicable science here!

Gray Wolf · Aug 27, 2015

My thoughts on technique are that if you do things right, you get what you start with. You can make it worse, but not better, so use the best material you can get.

Fresh cut material or material cured a week or so, will produce more impressive results than the finest of last seasons stash, because it still retains high monoterpenes.

I only do closed loop extraction these days, which I typically do around -30F to minimize wax and anthro cyanin pigment pickup.

Typically on a Mk VC, using 99.5% Instrument grade, pre-distilled and filtered to 99.995%, I flood two volumes from the bottom and rinse with one from the top.

I harvest it as hard powdery cotton candy, which I whisk into a powder.

For shatter, I put it in a thin film at 115F and start pulling a vacuum, stopping and letting it settle until the flurry dies down at -29.5" Hg, at which time I flip it and repeat the incremental vacuum steps.

For wax, I start around 150/160F and increment up the vacuum. Pausing when the boiling flurries.

Artisan concentrates requires individual patty attention and tweaking, because no two patties, even from the same plant and extraction, will react exactly the same.

Help and tips making shatter and honeycomb

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