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Old 03-20-2018, 09:00 AM #1
bigbadbiddy
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How do Aphria and Canopy Growth operate?

Howdy folks,

I guess this goes to our Canadian members in particular.

Currently looking to enter a market and start a farm where Aphria and Canopy Growth will be the two top dogs at the start, or so it seems.

Don't really mind that as I am looking to operate in a niche and do the whole craft cannabis sort of thing so I might actually be able to profit from the big dogs paving the way etc.

To my question:
I was researching Aphria and Canopy Growth a bit and to me it seems that their main focus lies on the stock market and offering a way to invest into cannabis in the form of stocks. Which apparently was and remains in high demand.
They obviously have sub-brands/daughter companies. Canopy Growth is a bit more open about that mentioning Tweed and Spectrum Cannabis as their sub-brands and share a bit about what each does.

But overall, I find it hard to find information on how exactly they operate. Some more research leads me to believe that they regard themselves as a one-stop-shop for anything medicinal cannabis. Meaning they go from seed all the way to extract, building farms where they employ growers to produce cannabis, then building extraction labs, employing extractors all the way to packaging and sales.

But it seems to me that they are mostly "money guys" when I hear to anyone from their company talk it doesn't sound different from bankers and finance sector folks to me.

Do they have human resources like master growers within their company structure? Or do they look on the local market to hire people? Or do they ship them in from Canada where they have a database with master growers waiting to be deployed by Aphria?
How do I imagine this?

Once they enter a market, aside from building production and processing facilities and building business relationships with outlets such as dispensaries/pharmacies to make sure their stuff is sold and fast, how do I imagine them operating?

Do they bring in their genetics from Canada? Do they look to be the cheapest? Do they look for most market penetration (being available everywhere)?

I particularly wonder what they bring in from Canada/abroad and what they do locally.

Another example:
If I am not mistaken, Aphria operates exclusively with greenhouses while Canopy Growth does a little greenhouse and mostly indoor facilities. Neither seems to do true outdoor growing (probably telling people you can't make clean medicine with outdoor bud ...).
And they both obviously grow with synthetic nutrients.

I assume they ship in those nutrients from Canada then? Because I can't imagine them opening a nutrient production facility in the country they enter as well, at least not from the start.


Well I think this is already a lot of questions and a lot of text. I would be happy if we can get a discussion on the subject going and could get some insight in how these big players do when they enter a new market.

BBB
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Old 03-20-2018, 09:55 AM #2
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well, when they entered the market it was a significantly different landscape.

Med only, they have had almost 4 years Iirc to build.

Aphira grows some, but they have large supply contracts from Tweed. for all intents and purpose you can essentially consider the same company with two different names

Seeds, you won't find ANY info about their seed. Period. its all proprietary, no one knows what they are getting never heard of anyone getting their beans either.

master growers.. yup, they poach international talent, and have no issue with hiring eh... less than savoury that look clean. take that how you will..

Cheapest? one of them, both there is also something else that comes with lowest price. worst quality and constant fluctuation of stock.

Genetics are licenced or acquired by other means. (ie grandfathered from MMar days when HC was saying go to the internet, already exist in canada, and there are import forum they can fill and apply for exemption)

they don't need dispensaries as technically those will not be allowed atleast in the majority of provinces. last i check BC was the only place NOT cutting the little guy out.

you can't grow medicinal cannabis on this scale in these zonings outdoor in canada. Its crop suicide. if the weather doesn't get to them the hemp pollen will.. has to be greenhouse or indoor.

look at it like a distillery as much as they can do in house they will do. the management and dept heads are poached and the underling positions are filled by those with licenses to posses.

as far as distribution, Mail is the norm, in the legit way. you cannot go to a store and smell your selection before you order. it will be the same way when rec hits. Disto is controlled federally from LP's (there is no craft grow outside of homegrow in the current regulation) not to mention current drafts of provincial laws currently down allow a craft segment in many places.

Nutrients and medium are provided by corporate contract with Promix and an undisclosed Nutrient. I can tell you for sure whatever it is.. it sure as fuck ISN"T organic.

There is big money and big support behind these guys. AFAIK Tweed and WeedMD are the only ones big enough to supply other LP's with product.
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Old 03-20-2018, 10:10 AM #3
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But Tweed is a subsidiary of canopy growth.

So if they are essentially the same corporation (which the supply agreement with Tweed sure makes it look like), then they do produce themselves (under the Tweed brand) and do the whole supply chain in-house all the way to the sale.

Mail-order you say, interesting, didn't imagine it like that but if you look at their websites, at least with Aphria you can see that you can order online (after loggging in).

Very interesting information, thank you!

Particularly that no one knows what genetics they grow and that they basically bring in the upper level employees and only higher the grunts locally (if I understood correctly).


So their products really aren't on shelves anywhere so you can touch/smell/see them before buying? It all goes through mail order or pharmacies where the stuff is packaged already etc.?
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Old 03-20-2018, 12:38 PM #4
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I must clarify, Their seeds are unknown, Tweed branded strains are mostly unknown (however easy assumptions get you in the right direction) and their branded strains that are licensed all have our usual sort of "trade" name accompanying the medical rebranding

for example, CBD nordle from CBD crew is called Argyle in tweed shops. other may be transparent about the strain by be rather coy about who produced it, others entirely rebrand and don't reveal the info on what it is.

As far as i'm aware Aphria have their own "unique" facility, while tweed has several in quite a few locations, and i believe they have external contract with some of their exclusive products however i'm not sure.

and yes it appears canopy corp/tweed is positioning itself to be the one stop "shop" for what regulations allow.

and ya that could be the long and short of it, it isn't unheard of for people to relocate to attempt to work for an LP. Hell i'm considering it. It will be a long time for my sense of a little guy will be able to do anything in the market beyond cater to extremely niche markets Ie craft medical.. but that a very small niche that would draw criticism price is the single highest complaint about those uneducated even from tweed.

Currently(afaik) there are only contracts to stock pharmacies for med once rec comes into effect. there is no place at all other than another patients private residence to view or smell or even touch it before you purchase and sign for it.

yes its packed to kinda mimic RX containers for most part every LP has their own style of doing it. I hate the packaging it imparts a taste for a few days and its batch grown and over dried so shake is plentiful

the current market of "grey" area dispensaries haven't really been invited to be included in rec legalization, the way that market figured out and keep customer satisfaction isn't even something the government is thinking of.
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:30 PM #5
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So basically their m/o is to be the first to market through their deep pockets and thus ear of the government/powers that be and then flood the market with average (branded as top-shelf of course) cannabis of dubious descent (unknown origin, quality, genetics etc.). Making sure it gets into every nook and cranny that the government allows.

Sounds to me like they aim to be the WalMart/AlbertHijn/Carrefour of cannabis or something the like.
Basically aiming for maximum market saturation and market share.

I think there is plenty of room there for offering something else.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:07 PM #6
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Average would be high praise for what they have provided for medial use, the odd diamond in the rough. All sub-mid quality IMHO. I think i was impressed with a bedrocan to a point and one of Snoop's CBD's strains other then that...

needless to say a different LP now has my script.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:15 PM #7
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derp can't edit yet.

there appears to be a lot of room to play but thats when regulations come into bite you in the ass.

no edibles outside of concentrated activated out in a carrier oil. this is also limited to 30mg per ml and 10mg per ml when put into capsules.

Hash or shatter doesn't exist on this market because regulations don't allow it to be sold, you can however make it yourself. that is basically what room there is for.

If you can foot the bill to get the licenses, and have to fight tooth and nail to get your product acknowledged by the masses you still have to sell it mail order until you can land a contract for distribution which comes thrus the government.

Its hard to think that in the current climate in most provinces and territories that with will actually be fore room for the little guy. (again at this current point in this bill's legislative process, the Bill its self hasn't been passed yet. still need to finish second reading and do the third in the senate, then back to the lower house for likely what for all intents and purposes be a stone wall rush job by the liberals)

Without corporate support, I would hold off. Exclusivity is a thing and many have been awarded by contract. starting something now or in the near future is a long up hill battle.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:11 PM #8
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Bedrocan holds at least one solid strain which is the Jack Herrer cultivar they got their hands on from Sensi back in the 90ies or something.
So it figures that they have at least some decent genetics in their library.

I guess I have to wait and see how legislation shakes out and how discriminating it will be towards the little guy.

But the impression I get is that they are definitely leaving a niche to be filled by the right little guy.
Just have to wait and see if legislation will allow for that niche to exist or not ...
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:26 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbadbiddy View Post
Bedrocan holds at least one solid strain which is the Jack Herrer cultivar they got their hands on from Sensi back in the 90ies or something.
So it figures that they have at least some decent genetics in their library.

I guess I have to wait and see how legislation shakes out and how discriminating it will be towards the little guy.

But the impression I get is that they are definitely leaving a niche to be filled by the right little guy.
Just have to wait and see if legislation will allow for that niche to exist or not ...
if tweed knew how to grow it MAYBE? i've tried it. I wouldn't say its a popular pheno of jack It is ia actually Jack. likely merely super consistent (three batches all withing 1.4% thc of each other)

didn't have the right nose or staying power. but then again i prefer an NL dom Jack, and this one certainly was not.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:38 PM #10
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Zenabis is already trying to recruit "craft growers";
https://www.zenabis.com/craft-cannabis-growers-canada/

There's a link on there to proposed changes & the gov did mention they wanted to allow microgrows to get licenses to transition to the legal market. When they do that & how expensive it'll be is the big question.

I recently signed up with broken coast, which is owned by aphria. It wasn't at all competitive most bud. Looked good but no flavour & very mild sleepy stone
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