Register ICMag Forum Menu Features Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
You are viewing our:
in:
Forums > Marijuana Growing > Cannabis Botany and Advanced Growing Science > The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

Thread Title Search
Post Reply
The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-18-2018, 11:20 PM #121
moose eater
Senior Member

moose eater's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Off a dead-end dirt road, near a river, out of town, in the hills and trees
Posts: 2,225
moose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivor
If there's any curiosity as to why I backed off from the desired 1.2-2-1 or 1.2-3-2 ratios of TBSP/gallon of amendment. etc., common to my & others past soil mixes, re. n-p-k, it was to compensate for the Fox Farms Ocean Forest, and the Fishy Peat being part of the total aggregate, and especially the FF OF being touted as having a fairly stout nutrient content, straight out of the bag. Thus, I backed off a bit.
moose eater is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-18-2018, 11:40 PM #122
Badfishy1
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,190
Badfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by moose eater View Post
Sorry, it probably got lost in the volume of writing; aproximately 16.4 gallons total, counting everything. Maybe 16.5.

Thanks.
Thank you sir
Badfishy1 is online now Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-19-2018, 12:39 AM #123
Arnold.
Member

Arnold.'s Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: 52N
Posts: 100
Arnold. will become famous soon enoughArnold. will become famous soon enough
Happy day! Test results are in.

What'ya think?
This is 5 parts blonde Latvian peat + 1 part 2 year old leaf mold + 5g 34% Ca Maerl/l of moist soil



Excel sheet: https://bit.ly/2GuREtD


- First calculation is based on the Mg value of the sample:
Ca = 8* Mg
K = 0.5 * Mg = P = S

- Second calculation is based on the wanted base saturation's and uses the TCEC calculation.
I've used this formula for TCEC:

TCEC = Ca/200+K/390+Mg/120+Na/230 + 12(7-buffer pH)



If you have suggestions for changing my calculation methods I would love to hear it

What I see is a big difference in needed Ca input between the two calculations. I think I'd opt for the first one.

My interpretation: If I look at the soil test I see manageable numbers.
- I definitely need more P and S.
- More Mn aswell to get that Fe/Mn balance better.
- I also will need more K: a little from the start and build up during veg.

I will add 1 part pumice instead of perlite.

The CEC on my analysis says 32, my calculations says 67. This is something I don't get since I'm using the formula of their website.
A CEC of 67 would be way too big, I'm clueless on how to think about that part.
Edit: spectrum works with lbs, I did with meq. 1ppm=2lbs so 67/2=+-32?

Last edited by Arnold.; 05-19-2018 at 11:48 AM..
Arnold. is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-19-2018, 02:17 PM #124
Badfishy1
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,190
Badfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to beholdBadfishy1 is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by growingcrazy View Post
You most likely don't need any Mg in your feeds.

You could feed every couple weeks with Mg in the mix and be fine. Foliar in veg to build Mg reserves. Most soils already have enough Mg that you don't need more for a couple of runs and then it is still strain dependent.

Arnold, Jidoka probably runs something like 30 ppm S and 110 P, or similar but still carrying that ratio. Anions compete with other Anions. Really the limit on your S is only relevant if you see a deficiency in P. Remember, numbers are just numbers.
Picked up a new laptop, Shoot me a PM Arnold.

I wanted to make a note concerning the Sample that Jidoka mentioned High Ec and lookouts ETC on...

Those EC numbers from Spectrum are pure bullshit. 3 meters later, a new Hannah from Avenger and I confirmed my thoughts. I thought I had a bunch of junk meters from sitting...nope just junk numbers from Spectrum on EC.

I had quite a few PM's about mixes and asking to post here...

I can't say this enough...If anybody wants to learn, do it here. You have a simple question that's just eating at you or a tough question that just isn't in your grasp, post it!
Doesn't matter what it's about, teas, mixes, irrigation, coco, peat...don't care. This is a thread for learning.


I have had starts going from seed since February...looking forward to outdoor this year! How are your big girls doing Jidoka? ( I am assuming they are already)
Continued from our PM conversation... can somebody tell me where one can get npk analysis done on locally sourced seaweed and a homemade fish emulsion please. Also does anybody know the process of getting said testing done? I’m sure the lab will tell me how to go about it, but am curious if anybody has done this
Badfishy1 is online now Quote


Old 05-19-2018, 04:38 PM #125
growingcrazy
Member

growingcrazy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Michigans sunset coast
Posts: 932
growingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of lightgrowingcrazy is a glorious beacon of light
Spectrum runs dry and liquid fert analysis.


Arnold, I think you already know where you are heading. Those Ca numbers are pretty nice for being a pile of old leaves..yea?


Moose eater, A mix with that many inputs is hard to really give any insight on. My guess is that it has quite a bit of K in it from the start. How much? no idea without a test. Most of those amendments aren't being brought to full benefit in a single run...recycling would cut your costs and make much more of what your adding available. Where you are located at, I would be recycling and only adding minimum inputs. A plant can use one source for each element, it doesn't have taste buds like Humans. Using multiple sources of each element is more about having them available at all times, due to different breakdown periods. You don't have to sacrifice quality with less amendment sources but $/oz will drop...
growingcrazy is offline Quote


3 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-19-2018, 07:09 PM #126
moose eater
Senior Member

moose eater's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Off a dead-end dirt road, near a river, out of town, in the hills and trees
Posts: 2,225
moose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivor
Thanks, GC.

I consciously tried to cut back on the amount of immediately available K. (Kelp meal being a moderate release, and Green Sand being a very slow release). The langbeinite was the exception, but I went back and forth on the amount of it, deciding on 1 TBSP, after having had it at 2 tsp; in one stressed round with a similar mix, I had attributed a good bit of that round's trouble to excess langbeinite, and not just due to the K.).

It was I think Slow who had mentioned that top-dressed or even tilled Sup-Po-Mag/Langbeinite didn't further contribute to the mag or N lock-outs the way that other sources of K did, and acknowledged it was a mystery as to why.

Any recycling avoidance was, in part, an effort at fresh start each time, as well as concerns re. salts.

In my own calculations, I took similarly rated sources, and added them up in total aggregate/volume/etc., and tried to make them fit into the ratios presented, but the EWC, etc., are all wild cards until tested.

Really, even those things with supposedly 'known' values, as stated, in my opinion, is a matter of trust that the quality control and analysis at any given source of an amendment is accurate and consistent.

That was the additional cause for such diversity in sources of specific nutes; while it's likely there's some inaccuracy in at least one amendment from a commercial source, the likelihood that ALL are equally inaccurate is less.. was my hypothesis. Just thinking my process out loud to demonstrate how I got there.

Will Spectrum be able to discern proper values on a mix with such an elevated presence of peat-based products in it? I'd read some place (maybe in this thread) re. concerns for peat-based soilless mixes and the [presence of peat skewing results.

Thanks again.
moose eater is offline Quote


Old 05-19-2018, 08:44 PM #127
led05
Member

led05's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Upstate - Northeast
Posts: 678
led05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really nice
My computer ended it's life, took all of my files and whatnot with it. Not in the mood to start over again, may not pick up another until fall. Spring is busy season too... You few that can, keep in touch. [/quote]


I have two different ones showing signs about to go..... I'm currently at a point where I'm actually able to let them and not worry too much..... fkin amazing.... My growing notes and spreadsheets are literally the only things on them two I care about, all backedup

enjoy the growing seasons - later
__________________
Pleasure for One hour; a bottle of wine.
Pleasure for one year, a marriage; but pleasure for a lifetime, a Garden - Chinese Proverb
led05 is offline Quote


Old 05-19-2018, 08:48 PM #128
led05
Member

led05's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Upstate - Northeast
Posts: 678
led05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxlost View Post
No the sulfate to sulfide reaction is not favorable in aerobic soils. The potential needs to be super negative to create the sulfide, which than turns into hydrogen sulfide. Think rotten egg smells around bogs.

Also I guess I should add that the reaction happens inside bacteria

S + microbes -> H2SO4

Just as mammals don't eat their own shit (except dogs, be suspect) bacteria don't either. So it won't go back to sulfide
I haven't read ahead but you do know why dogs eat their own shit, most animals in fact, nutrient deficiencies - good post
__________________
Pleasure for One hour; a bottle of wine.
Pleasure for one year, a marriage; but pleasure for a lifetime, a Garden - Chinese Proverb
led05 is offline Quote


Old 05-19-2018, 08:51 PM #129
led05
Member

led05's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Upstate - Northeast
Posts: 678
led05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by jidoka View Post
Sulfate competes with phosphate uptake. You can measure P going down as so4 rises. Don’t go too crazy

if people would create a simple excel spreadsheet breaking out Anions, Cations and perhaps color it say yellow and blue (maybe purple for the swingers, N for example), and make it columnar, maybe add each of their favorite fertilizers and their contents for the top 15-16 minerals (columns) and fertilizers (rows) they use.....

I imagine it would be an hour or two of work for days of if not weeks of problems solved
__________________
Pleasure for One hour; a bottle of wine.
Pleasure for one year, a marriage; but pleasure for a lifetime, a Garden - Chinese Proverb
led05 is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-19-2018, 08:59 PM #130
led05
Member

led05's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Upstate - Northeast
Posts: 678
led05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really niceled05 is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by growingcrazy View Post
You most likely don't need any Mg in your feeds.

You could feed every couple weeks with Mg in the mix and be fine. Foliar in veg to build Mg reserves. Most soils already have enough Mg that you don't need more for a couple of runs and then it is still strain dependent.

Arnold, Jidoka probably runs something like 30 ppm S and 110 P, or similar but still carrying that ratio. Anions compete with other Anions. Really the limit on your S is only relevant if you see a deficiency in P. Remember, numbers are just numbers.
Picked up a new laptop, Shoot me a PM Arnold.

I wanted to make a note concerning the Sample that Jidoka mentioned High Ec and lookouts ETC on...

Those EC numbers from Spectrum are pure bullshit. 3 meters later, a new Hannah from Avenger and I confirmed my thoughts. I thought I had a bunch of junk meters from sitting...nope just junk numbers from Spectrum on EC.

I had quite a few PM's about mixes and asking to post here...

I can't say this enough...If anybody wants to learn, do it here. You have a simple question that's just eating at you or a tough question that just isn't in your grasp, post it!
Doesn't matter what it's about, teas, mixes, irrigation, coco, peat...don't care. This is a thread for learning.


I have had starts going from seed since February...looking forward to outdoor this year! How are your big girls doing Jidoka? ( I am assuming they are already)
I wonder if someone walked into any said lab and saw what was going on if they would rely / trust more on those results than what they feel.....

a while back I was hinting really hard at the limitations of soil testing, labs (any one in particular), how they are collected (us) and so on...... Pissed out of the convo - I expect people know they are just like a Ho, a tool, one of many
__________________
Pleasure for One hour; a bottle of wine.
Pleasure for one year, a marriage; but pleasure for a lifetime, a Garden - Chinese Proverb
led05 is offline Quote


Post Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:52 PM.




This site is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
You must be of legal age to view ICmag and participate here.
All postings are the responsibility of their authors.
Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.