High Male Ratio - Bad luck, strain or enviornment?

You know, it's very easy to make a coloidal silver generator. And make feminised seeds, and not worry about enviromental factors, or genetics, or bikering about them.

Masterlow said:

You know, it's very easy to make a coloidal silver generator. And make feminised seeds, and not worry about enviromental factors, or genetics, or bikering about them.

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This is not an option. I quess you know all the reasons.

Of course its the evironment. But those enviromental factors are most influential...when the seed is realized, not as you germ it. As in, the mother plant's environment is where your seed determines which way its wind blows.

dickhead.. grow a pair.. why dont u fuck off. Ur a waste of time. U are being a child.. I dont take people serious when they cant have a civilized debate. Im just going to go ahead ignore you.

MostHigh said:

Of course its the evironment. But those enviromental factors are most influential...when the seed is realized, not as you germ it. As in, the mother plant's environment is where your seed determines which way its wind blows.

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And if I call to the sky, dance around do some hail marys I will be blessed with all females....

Zealious said:

dickhead.. grow a pair.. why dont u fuck off. Ur a waste of time. U are being a child.. I dont take people serious when they cant have a civilized debate. Im just going to go ahead ignore you.

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No I won't fuck off as long as theres dicks like you giving bad info based on wishful thinking. theres nothing to debate.. you may as well ignore me as you have ignored every bit of scientific evidence that tells you you are wrong.

Kopite

Not to mention the fact ur retarded.

I shall repeat my self.... Explain how you can have a TRUE FEMALE XX x XX. use the enviroment adjustments to create male pollen.. on the TRUE FEMALE. and of the seeds produced. you will have the chance to get a MALE plant. Yx. a female plant Xx and xx and XX and also a fucking hermie plant HXY explain that dick head.

ur article is missing the scientific data that u are making up.

Not to mention the fact ur retarded.

I shall repeat my self.... Explain how you can have a TRUE FEMALE XX x XX. use the enviroment adjustments to create male pollen.. on the TRUE FEMALE. and of the seeds produced. you will have the chance to get a MALE plant. Yx. a female plant Xx and xx and XX and also a fucking hermie plant HXY explain that dick head.

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Well for a start I wouldn't use the enviroment to "change"the plants sex !! I'm not friggin Soma... XXXY etc something may look female but it might not always be...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=58992

X:A 0.5 to 1

the plant MUST have the genes for intersexual expression..

I will quote SamS for this

I am curious how you decided that Hermaphrodites are recessive? As far as I know there are no naturally monoecious wild varieties they are all created by man from individual plants that were intersexed. I have seen hundreds of drug clones that were inter-sexed, mostly females with genes from traditional sinsemilla areas, the local farmers kill all real males and any seed made came from a hermi male flower on a female, every year the hermi load increases in the population if the farmers use seeds that he found in sinsemilla. They need to use seeds made with real males and real females to get inter-sex free plants. I know when I use for example a Thai female with inter-sexed traits most of the female progeny have inter-sexed tendencies. That don't seem very recessive.
I believe that Cannabis is controlled by a XX/XY system that can be overridden by stress if the plants has the genes for inter-sexed expression, if not then stress will not turn a true female to male, chemicals yes, but that don't happen in nature does it? Some inter-sexed plants like Thai's will show regardless if stressed or not.
Also inter-sexed plants can have several different mechanisms that are used to achieve inter-sexuality, including inter-sexual genes, to broken, unfunctioning, or missing genes. A test using RAPD marker genes like what is used for both male sex MADC1, and now RAPD markers for female sex as well, would help a lot, the markers needed would be for inter-sexed genes.
I also believe most Cannabis has inter-sexed genes in them to some degree.
-SamS

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http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597&page=7

but hey I'm a "retard" although some so called "retards" are very smart people...

It is all a game of X's and Y's....well, we need to add that the game is also played with x's and y's, in the case of cannabis. XxYy vs XY

Cannabis has a different sexing strategy than other plants may have. There are three main categories when considering the sex of a cannabis plant.
Monoecious, Hermaphrodite, and Dioecious.
Each of these categories contain subcategories of genetic material.

The true female Dioecious plant does not contain any male genetic material and will not express hermaphrodite with normal stress conditions. The only way a true female can express male flowers is to chemically manipulate the genes, such as with STS or a colloidal silver solution. True dioecious female or male plants would be a minority in a total population.

All other plants in the population have the ability to express themselves either male, female, or hermaphrodite. A true hermaphrodite will express itself as such each time. Others have a preponderance to be a male and will express this..but have the ability (due to the recessive genetic material it has inside) to express the other sex if the stress conditions are right to trigger this action. This will be a majority of plants, and why when we flower a female it may want to start making male flowers if environmental stress like a light leak, high heat, too many or too little ferts, etc...trigger this action from within the plants genetic structure.
The plant that was stressed and started making male flowers was NOT a hermaphrodite, as often mistakenly labeled. But rather either monoecious or dioecious plant that expressed itself after seeing stress. The true hermie, as I stated above, will show both male and female no matter what you do.

Now, there may be some merit to ethylene having some effect on the sexual expression, the same as chemically altering the genetic pattern of true male or female plant.
And if there is merit to that stress working, then other stresses may also hold some merit.
And I am not so certain of the mechanisms involved when we stress a true female to produce male flowers..as I have a hard time wrapping my mind around being able to manipulate the sex of something that does not contain that genetic material. That will have to be explained by someone far more up on things than me.
It may well be that a true dioecious female may not be able to be stressed into making male flowers at all...and it may well be that we have just never seen or known we had a true dioceious female plant.
We may think we have a true female because normal stress may not trigger a change, but it may well be monoceious and contain the male gene. (shrug)

Bottom line for me is this...a seed is what it is at conception. It's genetic map is laid out and it will express itself accordingly. I think that chemical manipulation is possible...but if using only natural environmental stresses, the plant is going to express itself according to what genetic material it has available. If it is a true dioecious female, I am pretty certain that no environmental stress can cause it to make male flowers even if you wanted it to.

All cannabis plants will fall into one of the below categories or sub-categories...
each seed has the potential to hold one of many different genetic maps.
It's not just an XX vs XY thing with cannabis.

Then the female was not a true female in the first place, and should not be used to make seeds.
-SamS

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Hoosier I think your sig sums it up nicely

nor do I personally think Cannabis is fully dioecious i'd say sub-dioecious.

Im no geneticis.. all i can say that this is debated within its field.. so clearly it is debatable. I wouldnt say it has been proved without a shadow of a doubt that cannabis adheres to a strict genetic sexing system. altough there has been some advancments from some scientists as you have pointed out..

I just think canabis does not fit any other plants as far as complexity.. And I truly belive its sexing system is beyond the current science.. therfore we are not able to see the full picture.

I have to point out that using chemicals on the plant to create male flowers does not effect the plants genes.. it is and enviromental effect on the plant..

IMO i belive the enviroment plays a major role on the sex of the plant..

Either way the guy that was vegging with HPS when he had a switchable ballast anyway was prettty silly.. we can all agree that vegging plants under MH is much better.. too much stretch with hps..

Peace.

So - out of 8 plants, 6 were male, 2 female. The 2 female were the last to show sex at 18 days 12/12. First male showed sex at 7 days 12/12.

a seedbank in canada gaurentees 7/10 fem to male ratios if u grow them without there leaves touching eachother on all there seeds. i think theres something to be said about avoiding enviromental stresses, genes we cant focus on, enviroment we can, and its no doubt that enviroment stress can be a bad thing. ive always been happy with half fems, and i usually get more then that, i think if u start seeds in one container, give them space, keep temps normal you should have more fems then males everytime but i could be wrong.

Zealious said:

when u divide anything by zero the answer is always -∞

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I wanted to neg rep you on those 4 consecutive posts, a little bit because it was 4 consecutive posts, but also because you're whiny and wrong.
..
Reading more into the thread, I see how completely ignorant you really are.
Good luck, kid.

Zealious said:

Either way the guy that was vegging with HPS when he had a switchable ballast anyway was prettty silly.. we can all agree that vegging plants under MH is much better.. too much stretch with hps..

Peace.

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I have been growing on and off for 20 years with nothing but an HPS. MH may be a little better for veg but not an absolute make or break, must have. Calling it silly is just immaturity.

I have not kept good records over the years but, if guessed, my average ratio has been 60% female, 40% male. For this grow, I got 2 females, 6 males. I tossed 2 seedlings out of the 10 pack - they could have been female and it would have been 40%. Small statistical sample in the bcell world - I have a couple of girls now - bud is coming. All is well.

For the most part, good debate - sometimes it gets emotional - shit it is only weed - kind of funny. My conclusion, genetics sets the sex. A 10 pack is like 10 rolls of the dice with very little that can be done to alter the outcome of sex. That's my take away!

Coco.. wow ur very observant.. I have to say ur a swettie. Its a thing i do.. IM a speratic thinker and I would rather just post a new message then try to go back and edit one.. I might loose my train of thought you know.. But I dont have to explain my self to you.. and frankly dont care what you think. I am whiny .. u can ask my girl.

I very well could be wrong. I realize that.. But i will stick to maintaing an optimal enviroment for my young plants.. either way a happier plant = a happier yield.

Bcell. i meant no offense my friend. I wish u only the best.. Every grower has there own thing they do... Im just almost religious about MH and the blue spectrum.. In my experience I just think plants like this light better.. If it works for you then use it.. Me personally Im always looking for ways to improve my plants.

It is of my opinion that using a hps or yellow spectrum for clones is very neg and takes longer to root because the color spectrum activates hormones in the plant that tells the plant to stretch because fall is near. Another thing i love about daylight spectrum is that I have a easier time inspecting my plants for pests and problems.. tinted lights make this hard.. esp LEDS. I actualy prefer to flower with MH.. but will be adding a 250w hps to my 400mh (both about 30k lume for a total of 60k lum, this is extreemly efficient due to the similar lume, in relation to height of bulbs) during the second half of flower...

Thanks. it is a good debate.

Peace and respect.