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DIY: 2 Super Simple KISS Systems

PetFlora

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I have been working toward a total KISS hydro system, whose results are easily repeatable. The beauty of hydro is CONTROL.

I still haven't decided whether my stripped down hpa system is comparable, BUT, My 21st Century DIY F & D rocks. Anyone can build it with minimal tools. Most importantly it can be operated simply for Noobs, OR, it can be easily pushed
in both veg and flower, ideal for more advanced growers.

Seeds are germed in RO water + pinch of sea salt minerals. I use a meat baster to gently water the cubes. Tap roots develop within 24-48 hours. Once the taps are ~ 1/4" they are placed into Sunleaves Starter Cubes (cut in half) and placed in south facing window sill, but a few cfls/led will work, just keep them > 12" above.

Once the taproot clears the bottom (2-3 more days) each is placed into the smallest net pot which is inserted into 1.5" PVC couplers then placed in my DIY bubbler (pic 2) I use a 45L/hr air pump + 4 large Oxystones.
This provides an abundance of oxygenated water/nutes. I fill the Rubbermaid with sufficient water/nutes to within ~ 2" from the bottom of the net pot. (When cloning, no net pot is needed). Rubber pucks fit perfectly inside the PVC coupler for cloning.

Plants stay in the bubbler until the root structure is sufficient to absorb ample nutrients (important in the hpa, as mist pause cycles can vary from 2- 10 minutes) are so as to not underfeed the plant; which seems to be at 3rd leaf set.

Pic 3 & 4 show outboard rez + PVC arms. This was first gen. I now use a 2G Coleman cooler which is ample for 2 X 4 tray, though mine at this point is 2 X 2. Inside, where I simply had holes drilled in the pvc, which created a Bellagio type water, but was to intense for young plants. I now use lp mist heads (Pic 6)



Other than the small starter cubes (I no longer us RW or S2G cubes) no other grow medium is needed when using hpa, where plant roots hang in the root chamber, totally free from any medium. My previous IC journal details my hpa system, so no need to rehash it here, though I will post occasional pics.




My DIY 21st Century Flood & Drain

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If you enlarge pic and look to the right of my hand you should see 2 lp mist heads

Air Pots + net pots + lava rock + hydroton + lp misting = Explosive growth/budding

Avoiding root transplant shock.

The small net pot with young plant is centered into an empty 3” net pot. I had to cut a ~ 1” hole in the center of the 3" pot as the roots were already 4-5” long; the hole is not necessary if you transplant before the root structure is too long.

The gap between the two is filled with hydroton. This fits nicely into a 1 liter Air Pot, with one layer of lava rock on the bottom for the roots to root on + flow out the sides/bottom. These then go into my high wall flood tray (Rubbermaid 18G tote with lid cut out. However, I don't feed by conventional floodings.

Once the roots start coming out the bottomof the 1L AP, I transfer the whole 1 L AP into a 1G AP (or larger), and infill with a couple layers of lava rock; then center the 1 L AP and side fill with lava rock.

Flood Cycles

I ‘flood’ from the top and sides using low pressure mist heads which are strategically placed along the pvc pipe bars, which connects to my low pressure pump in my 2g outboard rez (a small Coleman Cooler). Feed cycles vary; shorter on time (less nutes) during early growth. As the plant gains leaf sets, I decrease the pause cycle (in the beginning ~ 3 hours), and eventually increase the on cycle. Observing the plants is the key. The 2 plants in the pics below are now on ~30 sec feed and 1 hour pause.

The resulting soft spray from the lp mist heads + the high wall environment (think rain forest) provides oxygenated humidity for the top of the plant while the nutes gently cascade into the plant from both the top & sides; it then cascades slowly down to the drain and back to the rez.

The lava rock + hydroton prevents channeling ++++ feeding all roots. The rough surfaces and pockets of the media holds a small volume of nutes/moisture to keep roots from drying out between ‘flood’ cycles.


Putting the Pedal to The Metal

The AP system + lava rock drains quickly (but small % of moisture remains), this allows me to ‘flood’ as often as every 30 minutes. Timer is IGS 011, it has separate o/o rotary knobs, which comes in very handy as dialing in o/o varies throughout the grow.

In the beginning the plants can’t tolerate more than 1 flood ~ 20 sec (this timers lowest on setting) @ 2-3 hours; 10 seconds would be ample at this stage of development. I compensated by using pvc bars with fewer misting heads, then either swap them out for pvc rails with more heads per rail, or, twist the timer dial for a longer flood time, and/or a shorter pause cycle.

In my previous grows, the plant grew so freakin fast, I decided to keep dialing up the flooding frequency. At the height of flower I was flooding every 30 minutes, then slowly backed it down to 1/4hrs as harvest approached. Easy-Peazy

Each method (hpa + F & D) takes up ~ 50% of the 2 X 4 grow space under my Quantum 8 bulb. I use a combination of aquarium bulbs to simulate led nm specific spectrums.

Nutes for Noobs + Pros Alike

I went through hell using organic nutes and replaced them with DM Gold- the full 6 separate products. Although I got vg results, I was still dealing with clogged filters/screens in my hpa system.

I saw netprophets' thread here and gave it a try. Hydro-Research VEG+BLOOMis easy to mix and my plants love it
.

I switched in mid veg. Within days veg growth EXPLODED. It was my best result by a long shot. It has lots of micros that he does not list. New product has fulvic acid, which he makes in house.

This grow started with V+B. The 2 plants are the 2 biggest of the 8 F1 seedlings from my first cross

5gms/G= 850ppms. Using 7.5 RO water pH = 5.8. No pH swings either. Prior to moving from my bubbler, ppms are ~ 200. And I keep it there for the first week in the main system. I then dump the rez, and increase to ~ 300 ppms. The following week ~ 400. I tried 500 but with a few days the plants started sexing. I backed ppms down to 400 and they reverted to veg.

More to come... pics too
 

PetFlora

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I started using 2 ZooMed Flurosun + 2 ATI Special Blue Actinic because my cross seems to be Sat dominant= likes the extra blue.

Now into ~ 3rd week time to back off on the extra blue, probably 5-7 days too long.

I replaced the 2 ATIs with UVL Aquasuns (~ = hps). Here are pics just prior to that switch. Pic 1 & 2 are from F & D. Pic 2 is the lp mist head, which is mirrored on the opposite side.

Pic 4 Roots are from middle plant on the back row of pic 3. These are excellent roots for this stage of growth. FYI I have been trimming roots for 3 grows now. Pic 4 has benefited from trimming. Doing so forces more roots to develop up high which pays dividends in absorbing more nutes at an early stage
 

PetFlora

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Lighting

Lighting

Wow, Lighting is a whole education unto itself

I bought a UFO 90 ~ 3 years ago, when I started up again. Funny, but I was unaware of grow sites like this, but even when I found out (~ 4 months later), led info was sketchy at best.

My UFO is ~ 10% blue, the rest red. No wonder I had a hard time growing a seedling to harvest. I continue to use it, supplementing with cfls &/or leds.

I am supplementing with a couple of 3.5w light bulb style from Lowes; one is cool white, the other warm white + one 23 watt cfl warm white + the UFO in my starter/cloner rig.

I needed more light coverage for my a X 4 grow area. The cost to do so, in led money, was out of my league, so I opted for HO T5 + aquarium bulbs (@< 50% price of throw away leds).

I am learning aquarium bulbs do a damn good job approximating cool white, neutral white and warm white spectrums, which are the led choices DIYers use.

While you could KISS, probably grow excellent quality, using a combination of UVL Aquasuns and Red Suns, the trick is learning how & when to swap bulbs in/out. In veg you could have AS & RS in a 2:1, during flower inverting the ratios will give bigger, fatter and denser buds

I had a pretty good handle on this at the start of this grow, but the last few days of reading DIY led threads I have a few adjustments that should provide huge dividends shortly and through harvest
 

PetFlora

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Looking back at 9/18 pics, not a whole lot has transpired in my hpa system. The roots are very healthy and suggest much bigger plants :dunno: I am so near done with hpa.
moon.gif
Probably convert those plants to my F & D system by weeks end.


View attachment 184011 View attachment 184012 View attachment 184013

I also took a couple pics of my mostly led tent (one 23w ww cfl), to show what proper spectral balance can do. It has ~ 80 watts, but is almost as big as my F & D plants, which are under 324w.

The cool thing is these 2 plants were the runts out of 8 that were all started in the bubbler. Since sadding the ufo to the other bulbs they are already half way between the hpa and F & D. It's like miracle!


View attachment 184014 View attachment 184015

As you might imagine,
I remain enthusiastic about leds. I sub to several DIY LED threads that are cutting edge. Bigger is not better, and white bulbs have come of age. I went with the 4ft HO T5 for low price of coverage v conventional thinking on commercial leds. Alas, the kits are still costly to cover 2 X 4 BUT...

I had 2 runts out of 8 plants (plus some basil + oregano that I left in my starter bubbler. I was using a cheap 4 bulb vanity fixture with a mixture of cw/ww cfls- not much going on. I then added a flat top warm white led (~3w- 3 chips), and a week later a 7.5w led cool white globe (Lowes $15). Nothing earth shattering THEN I added my UFO 90 (R:B 90:10). Well, this mix (~ 60watts) is out performing 324w of HO T5s! WTF?????:dunno:

It wasn't until I replaced 2 more T5 bulbs with UVL Red Lifes (now 3/6) that the plants perked up and look poised to start taking off. 2 of the remaining 3 are UVL Aquasun very nice mid-band, dab of blue, leaning towards red + 1/6 @ 2700 flower bulb from Quantum (could probably use 2/8). These plants seem to be Indica dom.


As a pre-experiment to buying a solderless led kit + predrilled/tapped heatsinks , I came across Chinabuye website: they have a huge selection of low wattage led bulbs/globes at half the price of Lowes + a wide selection.


So yesterday I ordered several fill in spectrums from Chinabuye. Using screw in bulbs allows me to fine tune the spectral demands of my F1 cross, but with a broad spectral brush ala cw/nw/ww. I bought 6 @3-4w bulbs < $50 + free shipping. They also sell led desk lights + small fixtures that plug into usb. They were sold out of the one I wanted but had a free standing, folding , rechargeable light for < $16! Oddly, they also sell women's sexy panties- very cheap.
 

vukman

Active member
Veteran
well okay then... I've subscribed to this one then...:)..thank you for letting me know the other one was done..

and DAMN...LEDs and women's panties!@ !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm there !!!!!!!!! ROFL
 

PetFlora

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Yep and under $2.00 per! Just be aware of what they might be made of.

I am so frustrated with my main grow (in comparison to my 2 x- runts) that I got busy. The 2 Runts are just about as tall as the 2 hardiest seedlings, and with better formed secondary leaf sets :laughing:

F & D

I put the 1L APs inside 0.9G APs, that helped perk them up

HPA

I laid down a layer of HD Al foil, which will reflect light back up AND keep the inside of the pod (root chamber) cooler

Lighting

Keep in mind I am using 324 watts in the main rig, and only ~ 60w in the 2 x2 tent

I added 1/6 Wave Point Coral Waves- bit of a mixed bag, but will see. Apparently, I should have used it from the beginning, so plants might not like it now.

I added Reflectex side curtains to keep more light inside the grow perimeter, as this is not a tent (no actual side walls) :artist:

Pics Friday morning
 

PetFlora

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Not sure why, but my journals and blogs get 1000Xs (yes look at the views v posts) more lurkers than posters, so, thanks.

Too bad I can't change the title of this thread, which is 2 KISS Systems, cause this is mos def as good, and seemingly better than either of them, while being the personification of KISS, hydro or not.

I went out for 5 hours (a long time for me as I work from home) and the 2 Runts are noticably bigger and fatter than when I left. I can't wait for Friday to show them off.

Keep in mind ANYONE can do this for less than the price of 2 hq ozs. HELLO!
 

PetFlora

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It's a good thing I checked on my Runt tent. 2 days ago I replaced the 4 air stones with a lp pump + attachments to gently water the roots.

The pump was not sounding too good, and late tonite I came down stairs and did not hear the water percolating- dead pump, plants slightly wilted. Put the air stones back in. Should be fine in the morning. If so, will be posting new pics
 

PetFlora

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Pic update.

Runt tent WINNING


Pic #1 Bubbler Keep in mind these 2 (there is now a 3rd in between that I moved back from hpa 2 days ago just to see if it would take off) were the runts. It's not the grow method, it's the spectral balance
+ using low watt leds which allows me to keep them close to the canopy

Pics 2 & 5 hpa These could be lagging due to thin cover allowing fair amount of light penetration into root chamber. 2 days ago I covered the lid with HD Al Foil to eliminate light penetrating into the root chamber


Pics # 3 & 4 F & D are doing better since adding the Coral Wave. Bit of leaf burn probably due to DM LL/S being too old. Yeah I was a sucker, so I plan using the ~$60 worth of this stuff.


I added side skirts to the T5 fixture to better concentrate the light, though with the curved reflectors there is little scatter



View attachment 184820 View attachment 184821 View attachment 184822

View attachment 184823 View attachment 184824
 

vukman

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Veteran
Hiya:

Once again, I am truly sorry about the misunderstanding and thank you for accepting the apology........

Nice work here man,,, I really like the amount of growth that is visible in one of the plants in picture 3....I mean there is almost no space left for more leaves to sprout from.!! LOL....

Just keep up the great work. Also, I'm sure you're aware of this but I always like to repeat a very famous statement a wise man once said... and this is a paraphrase because I don't know the exact statement but it's close.....

Absorb everything and keep what is useful<<<<<<<Bruce Lee........

Take Care

<Added edit> If you are interested, I've started a new grow journal....two satellites and a kush..........title in grow journal forum somewhere....:).......still just very basic and got 3 clones in the soil....waiting for the roots to develop and grab hold...they are still in shock a bit but should take off in a few days..
 
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PetFlora

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Vukman No worries. I was not upset, just wanted to clarify.

The American Indians saying is get rid of things that do not grow corn (of course this was long before Monsanto developed GMO corn). Moving on...

Here's a close up of the undergrowth on the "Runts"


View attachment 184826
 

PetFlora

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Bonus Update

Bonus Update

The 2 Runts are exploding to the point where I gave them fresh nutes & upped the ppm from ~ 430 to 500 today.

If you look close there is a much smaller 3rd Runt in there that I moved from my main area just to compare. It is filling out much faster here than in my other tent, though those too are filling in now that I adjusted spectral balance (they weren't getting enough Blue), a sign that they are Indica Dom

Last grow (my first with Hydro-Research VEG+BLOOM) upping to 500 caused sexing in ~ 7 days, WITHOUT changing light schedule.

So here's a couple shots that I just took. They are as tall as a soccer ball but as wide as a basketball
:woohoo:

View attachment 185036

View attachment 185037
 

PetFlora

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Well, I am happy to report that both grows under the T5 are doing much better since adding the Coral Wave.

I'm going to start lowering light schedule by one hour per ~ 5 days down to 10/14 by Nov 1st

HPA

Although lagging far behind, they have perked up and are growing much faster than before the Coral Wave

F & D

Most exciting one showed a single pistil yesterday, today a bunch has popped.

DIY Bubbler

Both are already bigger than a basketball.

I replaced the 13w warm white cfl with a 23w Day Light cfl in hopes of getting some stretch, although...

The plant on the left already has 6 @ 4"+ under-branches + a few smaller.

The plant on the right has 4, + a few smaller

Not bad for 5 weeks from seed. I'll be pimpin them before I know it
:pimp3:
 
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PetFlora

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LED Tutorial- in Brief

LED Tutorial- in Brief

We know RBG are Primary colors. However, will adding an actinic Green bulb to RB actinics produce the same synergy as would white, be it cw nw or ww? I think not. RBG actinics can be likened to digital music, where the resultant sign wave looks more like steps. White leds are analog in their spectral delivery of RBG, incorporating the colors/spectrums in between

To me, the entire mid-band spectral range from ~ 500-600 will have a much more synergistic effect between RB than adding a few Green actinics.

Of course today we don't need actinic RB either, as the newer whites provide sufficient quantities of both + the all important mid-band.

The plants' genome (Indica v Sat) indicates its' preference for more blue or red. This determines whether the mid-band leans toward the R or B.

I suspect that difference may be no more than ~ 20% one way or the other.

WHITE POWER
 

PetFlora

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I Did a Bad Bad thing

I Did a Bad Bad thing

As great as everything was in my led tent, I decided to push the envelop yesterday and bought a waterfall system for aquariums: the purpose was to gently splash nutes over lava rock, upon which the root mass rests. After a couple hours of fiddling I gave up.

Alas, the plants suffered and wilted. One mostly recovered over night, the other is very wilted. I think I can salvage it, but all that momentum was lost.
 
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