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What am I doing wrong ?? (Pics)

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
Have done a fair amount of reading on this (10 Hours) but maybe not enough, so figured I would ask before diving back in for another 10 hours!

Im trying to make a shatter consistency and can't get it clear and hard.

So I made BHO, blasted into the dish, let it evaporate until it looked like this

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Then I scraped it and dropped it on to parchment paper

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Then I put it in my vacuum chamber. Turned on the vacuum with no heating till it muffin'd and then opened the valve and let it deflate. After this it wouldn't muffin again doing the same thing. So then I turned on the heating mat, and brought it to full vac. 26.5 it says on the gauge, and my atmosphere is 27.5 here so basically full vac. Temp reached 110F. I had to open valves and measure with infrared thermometer laser gun. and then seal again. turn vac on. this was the progression it went through over the course of 24 hours.

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Is there a crucial step I missed or did wrong or why is this happening. It looked like it was going to turn into shatter but then muddied and dried up and ended up like crumble again which I was getting before i got the vacuum chamber pump kit !
 

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
Final Result. No Good! I would have gotten more of a clear sap shatter texture had I done just BHO and 1 hour purge without a vacuum chamber than whatever this is!

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PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
Yeah its not high quality flower. It is LARF from a variety of strains and plants from female seeds. Pure AK, Special Skunk,Sexbud,Bluieberry Cheesecake. Ive been yielding 11%. The material is 3-4 months old. Very dry and I blend it up and pack it tight in the tube. I do remove all sugar leaves fan leaves and stems so just crystally bud.

Ive never thought that this might be related to the quality. It always looks good after I blast it.
 

resinryder

Rubbing my glands together
Veteran
You scraped it instead of pouring it. When I scrape the dish to get out the last bit I put it on separate parchment paper and it turns out like this on occassion. Scrapping kimda whips it up. Not sure the tech term for it. When I pour it its always smooth and clear
Heat is about 5 degrees higher than I run
Did you run frozen trim, buds or whatever and use frozen butane?
 

Spaventa

...
Veteran
Have you tried it? how was it?

I chill my solvent and winterise before distilling the solvent back into its jar and mine comes out clear yellow. Ive never tried making it into shatter but maybe those things might help? i don't know, I'm asking really.
 

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
You scraped it instead of pouring it. When I scrape the dish to get out the last bit I put it on separate parchment paper and it turns out like this on occassion. Scrapping kimda whips it up. Not sure the tech term for it. When I pour it its always smooth and clear
Heat is about 5 degrees higher than I run
Did you run frozen trim, buds or whatever and use frozen butane?

Well aren't you supposed to let it heat purge until fairly dry before moving to parchment paper ? So how would you pour that ? I would say that I don't even let mine dry as much as i have seen most people do before transfer to parchment. All I can think is that 110F is too high, even though thats what everyone says, they even say 115-120, so I really thought I was on the safe side.

The buds are completely dry, stems removed then grinded into powder, then frozen, freeze butane cans too, and blast in cold garage around 15C
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Looks like older material and a lot of wax. How was it extracted?
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
The buds are completely dry, stems removed then grinded into powder, then frozen, freeze butane cans too, and blast in cold garage around 15C

Old, completely dry and ground into a powder will consistently produce something similar to what you have.

You can't ever make chicken salad out of chicken manure.

Old and dry means low monoterpene content, along with the water.

The anthro cyanins have oxidized, so are dark.

Grinding makes dust, which nucleates waxing.

You can remove the plant waxes by winterizing.

You can remove some of the more polar and darker elements with activated charcoal, with attendant losses of targeted materials.

You can bleach it with benzonite clay.

You will still end up with a lighter colored extract with low aromatics and flavor, with a mostly phenolic taste, because the cannabinoid by themselves are phenol's.

Short path distillation is an option, so that all the unwanted C-30 molecules are removed, making a smoother dab, but with less scope and dimension.
 

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
Looks like older material and a lot of wax. How was it extracted?

I have the Bee extractor. I am actually able to pack in 40-50 G's and use 1 10 OZ can of butane for the whole thing. I have done it with only 30Gs lighter packed but am getting the same 11-12% yield. Trying to be efficient on butane. I have more than enough material!

It is between 4-6 months old, kept in cool conditions. Im not sure if thats considered "old" to the point where products are inferior? I was under the assumption that 3+ months of cure make a product the best.

Now at 4+ months were saying "oh thats old product, no good!"
mhhhhh :chin:
Ur blending in the food processor extra dry........and ur scraping...

Are u using tane that has been cooled?

Yes, the butane is in the freezer overnight. In all the tutorials and guides I see people blasting into dish that purges, until most of the bubbling stops and then it gets scraped. Unless this is a major oversight on my part.

My old friend I was literally about to suggest a read through your sections and threads

Yes, Im excited that the master himself has dropped in. Like I said I have read a fair amount, and sometimes when you read 5+ guides, they all have slightly different methods and you get confused to as what is necessary and why it is even being done, cause everyone has there own ways of doing it based on there situation, and it might not make sense for my needs or practices. So I figured someone could point me in the right direction to see what is causing this. Any really good guides or write ups can be linked please ;)
 

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
Old, completely dry and ground into a powder will consistently produce something similar to what you have.

You can't ever make chicken salad out of chicken manure.

Old and dry means low monoterpene content, along with the water.

The anthro cyanins have oxidized, so are dark.

Grinding makes dust, which nucleates waxing.

You can remove the plant waxes by winterizing.

You can remove some of the more polar and darker elements with activated charcoal, with attendant losses of targeted materials.

You can bleach it with benzonite clay.

You will still end up with a lighter colored extract with low aromatics and flavor, with a mostly phenolic taste, because the cannabinoid by themselves are phenol's.

Short path distillation is an option, so that all the unwanted C-30 molecules are removed, making a smoother dab, but with less scope and dimension.

Thanks for the insight, I think I have a slightly better idea now about the delicacies of the process.

Everyones suggestions has given em a few areas to focus on and tweak to see what the outcome difference will be.

I will post here, if not just for my own reference :)

A) Fresher/Better Material
B) Not super dry
C) Not finely ground powder, broken up buds instead
D) Don't pack too tightly 30gs instead of 50gs in tube
E) Winterize
F) Lower heat - better controlled
G) Blasting with even cooler tools/materials/environment
H) Not to scrape the blasted dish material, pour it onto parchment paper



F*I currently use a heating mat with a t shirt folded once in between the Chamber pot and the matt. I found that this measures 110F on the "shatter" cookie/paddy. I will get an electronic skillet flat top type thing and see if that can give me a more controlled consistent temperature as well as lower. Down to 100F. Whats considered too low?


At least I have more confidence that I am using the Vac pump/ Properly and that that is not the issue, since no one has suggested anything in that regard. I just spent $250 CAD on it so I could make shatter, so I was disappointed how it turned out and thought I purged it wrong in the chamber.

I have included pictures of MY first 2 bho runs that were purged without a vac chamber on a heating mat at 130F.

Just incase that gives anyone insight into aspects of the material being used.

Thanks guys for being helpful. I guess I have a lot more reading to do. nothing is simple, practice makes perfect
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PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
OK I HAVE AN UPDATE
I know its been awhile, but because of all the help I received, I figured you guys deserve to see that I didn't just disappear into a dark abyss, and had some success.

I used the same material this last run. But I used a large glass tube that I was able to fit 200G into, and I used 2 coffee filters on the bottom, and previously with my 6" bee extractor I fit only 40-50G in, and used a cloth as the filter. I think this longer path of material for it to work through, as well as this finer filter are the reason it came out and stayed clear as opposed to that waxy cloudy crumble texture.As well The glass stays cold for the whole blasting process. The pvc not so much.

So i froze butane and filled tube overnight as well before blast.


Whats funny is I was actually just trying to make some kief crumble for a friend who likes it like that, and I super agitated it and scraped it around after initial purge, and then decided to put it in the vacuum and purge it a few times. I then left it on high heat!! for 12 hours under vacuum. I took the infra gun to it and it said 120C. Instead of the 100C one should be aiming for.

Now the issue is how do I get it to end up as a paddy on wax paper that just peels off, I put it on wax paper last time, and then in freezer to harden it, and it turned into smitherenes sticking to my fingers and turning to a glitter like dust that sticks like a magnet to everything. So messy.

I will try the wax paper again, but add the purged bho when it is slightly more hard. Keeping it in the pyrex dish is not working out. I dont want to scrape. I want a shard of glass that I can hold up to the light like I see you guys do.

But this is progress. I ended up with 22G of very hard glass like see through material. I just had to heat and scrape it to get it out of the pyrex. And as soon as it cooled down it went rock hard being almost impossible to get off the razor blade. ( I cut into my thumb)
So I ended up with chunks and pieces.

Going to make another batch tomorrow morning. After blast and inital purge in pyrex I will scrape while still a bit runny onto parchment. then vacuum purge that for 24 Hours at 100C. Should I be collapsing the muffin back and forth in the beginning, or let it stay muffined as long as possible.


Sorry for the rant but a lot of these guides don't cover some of these little details. Not sure if they matter.


Pics

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PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
Pic update of the last batch. I am happy with the outcome, it is more on a softer sticky fruit leather texture as opposed to glass hard shatter. I was able to pull it off the wax paper easily. Im satisified with the outcome as its a big step forward.

Are there any added steps or extra purge time etc that I could or should do at this point? After a 24 Hour purge I assume its complete and whatever way it came out, thats it for her. I just want to make sure at minimum that the butane has been properly purged and removed completely and is safe to smoke.




After the initial water purge is complete. Now start to scrape.

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paddy puddle after scrape
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4 Hours Vacumn Purge. Temp was 105-110F I lowered it by adding a food mat under the chamber on top of the heating mat.
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24 Hours Purge Measured gun temps read 100-105 across the paddy.
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without flash.
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