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Trying to pick the best COB. CXB5690 or CXM-22 or what? Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-12-2020, 11:28 PM #1
Klompen
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Trying to pick the best COB. CXB5690 or CXM-22 or what?

My new chamber I am building is basically going to be a set of four stalls that are sort of like lockers that each have their own lighting and are totally sealed from the others(so I can run photoperiod and autos separately among other things). Each chamber is going to be 18" wide and about 28" deep and about 6 feet tall. I want to put some high efficacy lights along the side and am currently leaning toward high efficacy tape light since I can't seem to find any quantum board products that meet my needs. I'm aiming for about 10-20W per side and then a powerful COB overhead.

That leads me to my current question: What COB is best? I know the CXB5690 from Cree is more or less the standard, but its been around quite a while now. The Luminus CXM-22 Gen 4 has comparable or superior efficiency and I see a lot of folks saying they're good. Right now I am using blurple Chinese "driverless" COB lights and while they performed way better than I ever expected, they also get hot like an inferno and are expensive and noisy to run as a result. If I have to, I'll use such a COB overhead, but I think it would be nice to have something more quality.

Budget is a huge issue so it all has to be DIY. I probably won't be able to buy them all at once, but I need to start getting these parts together and get my photoperiod plants flowering soon. I have Summer Breeze(Trifoliate), OJSDKB, Loud n' Proud, J1 Hashplant, Killer Orange, and Black Triangle waiting to go to 12/12 whenever I get this stuff figured out....
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:18 AM #2
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At the risk of asking an obvious question, why COBs? Wouldn't it be better to use board type lighting to build a new rig? How much wattage are you looking at putting through each COB, and how many COBs per space?
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Old 09-13-2020, 06:11 AM #3
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Thanks for the reply. There are a few reasons I am sure I want to go with COBs overhead and basically low wattage "quantum" style lighting surrounding them from the sides. I tend to prefer sativa-dominant strains and they tend to get tall. I'm also not in a legal state so maximizing my space while keeping my plant count down favors this layout. Running clones gives me as much time to veg each new set as I want; allowing them to get tall without slowing output down. I need that top light to be intense, but I need side lighting that can get really close to the plants and doesn't use an absurd amount of power.

The space of each "grow locker" is about 3.5sq ft(3 usable though really) with 6 feet of vertical clearance. So maybe one or two 50W COBs or a single 100W might do the trick? Top bin CXM-22 Gen4 and CXB5690 chips can be as efficient as lower binned lm301h chips, so I'm not sure its actually even worse all things considered.

I'm strongly considering getting some 24v 3000K white tape light and lining the walls with it. Some of the newest high-efficiency tape lights are getting to 150lm/w or more. I'll need to get some far red somehow though too. Not sure how I feel about adding UV in. I'm not against it, I just don't know enough about it yet.
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Old 09-13-2020, 06:22 AM #4
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Originally Posted by Klompen View Post
Thanks for the reply. There are a few reasons I am sure I want to go with COBs overhead and basically low wattage "quantum" style lighting surrounding them from the sides. I tend to prefer sativa-dominant strains and they tend to get tall. I'm also not in a legal state so maximizing my space while keeping my plant count down favors this layout. Running clones gives me as much time to veg each new set as I want; allowing them to get tall without slowing output down. I need that top light to be intense, but I need side lighting that can get really close to the plants and doesn't use an absurd amount of power.

The space of each "grow locker" is about 3.5sq ft(3 usable though really) with 6 feet of vertical clearance. So maybe one or two 50W COBs or a single 100W might do the trick? Top bin CXM-22 Gen4 and CXB5690 chips can be as efficient as lower binned lm301h chips, so I'm not sure its actually even worse all things considered.

I'm strongly considering getting some 24v 3000K white tape light and lining the walls with it. Some of the newest high-efficiency tape lights are getting to 150lm/w or more. I'll need to get some far red somehow though too. Not sure how I feel about adding UV in. I'm not against it, I just don't know enough about it yet.
This QB will give you all the benefits you are looking for in a COB, plus the better spectrum and efficiency of a QB: https://horticulturelightinggroup.co...m-board-engine

You can run them anywhere between 50w and 200w, and there's the great penetration you want to the lowers.
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Old 09-13-2020, 07:27 AM #5
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Nice, so that's basically just a COB without the diodes quite so close together. I mean, that's all a QB is in many ways, but this is a nice in-between. Would it have the penetration of a CXB3590?

I would have thought that the competition between the two was a no-brainer, but when I look at the PAR data for the CXB3590 I am surprised by how well it competes, but perhaps I am missing something.

Here's the data for the CXB3590:

https://chilledgrowlights.com/indepe...0-3500k-cd-bin

and here is similar data for the QB96:

https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/...-only.1521830/

Seems like the CXB3590 rates around 2-2.5 umoles/joule depending on how hard you drive it, and the QB96 rates around 2.4 umoles/joule at half power(around 180W). Beyond that I don't know how they compare apples to apples. I'm not dissing the QB96, but I am honestly just trying to understand what makes it special and especially what justifies the significantly higher relative cost...
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:57 AM #6
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Originally Posted by Klompen View Post
Nice, so that's basically just a COB without the diodes quite so close together. I mean, that's all a QB is in many ways, but this is a nice in-between. Would it have the penetration of a CXB3590?

I would have thought that the competition between the two was a no-brainer, but when I look at the PAR data for the CXB3590 I am surprised by how well it competes, but perhaps I am missing something.

Here's the data for the CXB3590:

https://chilledgrowlights.com/indepe...0-3500k-cd-bin

and here is similar data for the QB96:

https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/...-only.1521830/

Seems like the CXB3590 rates around 2-2.5 umoles/joule depending on how hard you drive it, and the QB96 rates around 2.4 umoles/joule at half power(around 180W). Beyond that I don't know how they compare apples to apples. I'm not dissing the QB96, but I am honestly just trying to understand what makes it special and especially what justifies the significantly higher relative cost...
Well it's only $70 including heatsink for a QB that you can drive up to 200watts for one, and as you've just pointed out that it's around 15% more efficient. I find them to penetrate well, as each individual diode is powered around 3x as much as a typical 301h diode on a QB. Also I really hate the spread on most COBs, and these QB96's have a really nice spread. I think you'd need 4 COBs at 30watts each to match one QB96 at 100 watts, in terms of both spread and light output. I also really like how the 96's have both while full spectrum LEDs and also a mix of 630nm and 660nm red diodes for better flowering.
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:06 AM #7
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Sounds good thanks. I'm not sure where the 15% more efficient comes from though; their PAR ratings seem practically the same to me but maybe I do not understand the data. I wonder how the drivers compare in price. I'm fairly sure they run at different voltages, but otherwise I'm not sure. Definitely interesting though either way, certainly considering it.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:26 PM #8
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After a TON of reading and digging around, I discovered that the QB96 almost certainly has either Samsung LH508B diodes or perhaps Bridgelux(HLG doesn't say). This would place the lm/watt at about 180 tops(less if the IR/far red is accounted for). So the top-bin CXB3590 and the CXM series from Luminus actually are more efficient at some wattages. Does this translate to better? I really think the QB96 is too much for each stall. If only they made a QB48! I could run them dimmed, but that's a lot of money for what is basically overkill for the space....

Check out the data sheet for the CXM HortiLum White line.... it looks pretty amazing actually

https://download.luminus.com/datashe..._Datasheet.pdf

Has anyone here used Luminus chips?


In many ways it would be nice to have something similar to this for side lights(but without a 100 part minimum order lol)

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...302514fffB1Lb1
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Old 09-14-2020, 12:04 AM #9
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Sounds good thanks. I'm not sure where the 15% more efficient comes from though; their PAR ratings seem practically the same to me but maybe I do not understand the data. I wonder how the drivers compare in price. I'm fairly sure they run at different voltages, but otherwise I'm not sure. Definitely interesting though either way, certainly considering it.
Obviously efficiency is going to depend on how hard you run them, and if you are running them soft, both lamps are pretty close on efficiency. I assume you will run them harder for better penetration however, and at the higher ranger, you're looking at around 2.3 j/w for the 96's vs 2 j/w for the COBs. Also the 96's have a lot more red due to the individual 630 and 660 nm diodes, so a better spectrum for flowering.
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Old 09-14-2020, 10:33 AM #10
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For the chamber, check our smallest quantum board light TS600.

https://bit.ly/30DesD0
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