Name Brand VS Generic LEDs

AntidoteMan · Apr 8, 2020

Looking for info from anyone who knows LEDs, I've always used HIDs and I'm looking into the LED fixtures.. finding legit info online is like digging through bags of soil for a seed..

I see KingLED is one of the top fixtures .. a 4000 watt unit selling from 400-650$, which is enough for 10 x 10 feet of space... not a bad price at all considering they don't put out so much heat.. of course it will produce a smaller yield, but for less of a setup investment than HID rooms, this seems to be a good deal.. aside from the fact when the bulbs die you have to toss it and replace.. still worth it for the money

So far so good... but..

I do see comparable LED fixtures that sell for the same general price, and all seem to offer different spectrum, etc... but on ebay i see 4000 watt cheap generic brands that sell for 50-70$... a huge difference in price.

Can anyone who knows their LED stuff tell me why this is... i would imagine the generics are of a cheaper quality, but that is a huge difference in the price.. i know you get what you pay for... but if the cheap 4000 watts putt out the same.. and if all that 10 x 10 coverage and light output is the same... and adding in the fact that the bulbs go bad after a certain number of hours.. it seems spending 70$ is a much better deal...

But then that's if the light puts out the same spectrum and has the same power. I guess that's my real question for anyone that knows..

Whats the difference between a 4000 watt name brand LED fixture and a generic brand 4000 watt, for anyone that has experience with these different lights..

Thanks..

PurplePotion · Apr 8, 2020

Delete that “4000w” led from your memory. Stay away from companies who advertise such large numbers. In all honesty, your best bet is going with a light that uses Samsung Lm301b or lm301h led’s. IMO You’re going to want at least 480 watts of Lm301b led’s per 4x4 for flowering (true watts, not the advertised equivalent).

Search “Lm301b” on amazon and there are options that average ~$200 per 240w.

Alibaba also has numerous vendors that sell them. I think you can find them for ~$150 shipped from China from Kingbrite via Alibaba/AliExpress.

3000K + 660nm seems to be the winning combo.
3500K if 660nm isn’t available.

AntidoteMan · Apr 8, 2020

Thanks PP... all these new numbers and formulas... i get it when it comes to spectrum and all that... but factoring in the price and square foot coverage seems to be another factor

a 480 watt isn't going to do what 4000 watt does in terms of square footage... and $200 per 240 watt... seems to indicate that it would be $3,200 for a 4000watt light, to cover a 10 x 10 foot area.

I understand there are differences in quality... although I'm trying to gauge what kind of footage they cover

https://www.amazon.com/Spider-Farmer-SF-4000-Dimmable-Spectrum/dp/B07TXFR69M/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=HL5Yikw3xml8IGCJMafndQ&hsa_cr_id=4565725420901&ref_=sb_s_sparkle

I found this light when i did your “Lm301b” search on amazon, and for $600, it seems very comparable to the KingLED... how many plants can you flower under it though, and not theoretically, but realistically..

My general idea is to pay as little as possible for the biggest, best light to flower the most under as few lights as possible, but i guess, who wouldn't be trying to do the same?

advice from anyone that's done it would be appreciated, exactly which lights are best, photos, simplified as best as possible, or anything else..

thanks again to all..

PurplePotion · Apr 8, 2020

AntidoteMan said:
Thanks PP... all these new numbers and formulas... i get it when it comes to spectrum and all that... but factoring in the price and square foot coverage seems to be another factor

a 480 watt isn't going to do what 4000 watt does in terms of square footage... and $200 per 240 watt... seems to indicate that it would be $3,200 for a 4000watt light, to cover a 10 x 10 foot area.

I understand there are differences in quality... although I'm trying to gauge what kind of footage they cover

https://www.amazon.com/Spider-Farmer-SF-4000-Dimmable-Spectrum/dp/B07TXFR69M/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=HL5Yikw3xml8IGCJMafndQ&hsa_cr_id=4565725420901&ref_=sb_s_sparkle

I found this light when i did your “Lm301b” search on amazon, and for $600, it seems very comparable to the KingLED... how many plants can you flower under it though, and not theoretically, but realistically..

My general idea is to pay as little as possible for the biggest, best light to flower the most under as few lights as possible, but i guess, who wouldn't be trying to do the same?

advice from anyone that's done it would be appreciated, exactly which lights are best, photos, simplified as best as possible, or anything else..

thanks again to all..

You need to look at the umol/joule spec on the lights. The Samsung chips are 2.7-2.8umol/j if I remember correctly. You’ll be hard pressed to find anything comparable. This is the true measure of usable light output, not watts. Also, that “4000w” light does not pull 4000 watts.. guaranteed. That’s an arbitrary number that they pulled out of their ass based off of some ludicrous comparison they are making to HPS lighting. I suggest doing more research on lighting technologies or stick to a name brand like HLG or NextLight. SpiderFarm and MarsHydro are good lights from what I’ve seen, and are both good options if you’re trying to save some money and don’t feel comfortable deciding between the million and one options you’ll find (most of which are over advertised junk). IMO they are the next step down from a board like HLG or NextLight.

starke · Apr 8, 2020

If you want to cover a 10x10 with quality LED lighting $3200 is not an unreasonable amount. Building your own could save you a good bit but I bet you are still looking at 2K+ if you use quality diodes/strips and drivers.

As a grower who uses only LED I did a fair amount of research before purchasing. I can promise you that like PurplePotion said, there is no way the light you are looking at either consumes 4000W or produces 4000W in output. Buyer beware.

I could be wrong, since LED tech has progressed at a rapid pace in the last couple of years, but I am not aware of any company making a true 4000W light.

Cantharellus · Apr 8, 2020

First thing to understand is you need about half of the wattage in LED to equal HID lamps. If they advertise anything over 700-800 watts they are lying and do not buy them. If you want to learn about LED's its best to read about them for 2 to 3 weeks before you buy anything. Find grow reports and see what everyone is using. Every thing you stated in your first post shows you need to do some reading. Go to all the weed forums and look under the led sections.

I have a 480 watt HLG r spec in a 4x4 and also a Budget LED 350watt in a 5 x 2.5. They work. The 480 will replace a 1000 and the 350 will replace a 600. The technology is still changing pretty fast. They will get cheaper.

AntidoteMan · Apr 8, 2020

Thank you for all advice... no need to be redundant - i have more reading to do and I am in the process of it..

I'm trying to do this all for a more manageable cost than HPS - I am an expert with HIDs but the damn heating, venting, cooling etc is a huge hassle that I want no part of anymore... hence the LEDS. I know the buds don't get as big.. of course I've seen the setups at work

https://www.amazon.com/Double-Spectrum-Greenhouse-Flowering-Growing/dp/B083QFPF19/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=king+LEd+4000&qid=1586369320&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyNkY0SThCTFBTSFo0JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTQzMDY5MkFGSE9GSVdETk0zOCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTgwNTk5MzVQU05aSEtYNzNJWSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

That's a link to a 4000watt KingLED unit that claims to be for a 10 x 10 square foot area.. which seems better than the spiderfarmer for square footage.. which claims 6 x 6... but perhaps the light quality and bulbs isn't as good? Do I have this correct?

Or are they making claims that aren't true?

Anything that's 10 x 10 for 400$ and doesn't require vents, etc, sounds like a hell of a better deal than most lights out there..

just sayin'

AM

jaded1 · Apr 8, 2020

What are the dimensions of the kingled unit?To have 4000w actual watts it would have to be a very large size and to cover that area would at min have 8ftx8ft in size

AntidoteMan · Apr 8, 2020

25" x 11" x 2" it claims 10 x 10 coverage which to me also seems too good to be true. This light comes highly rated from online links and reading info about lights, but online, who knows who's saying what anymore and why... that's why I'm on here asking questions... i trust most of the opinions on here (within reason) and I know that there are a lot of variations in these lights, from company to company and model to model..

the spiderfarmer looks bigger and better to me... and fits in with PP's specs... although i keep looking at the 10 x 10 claim.. that is a lot of coverage... i could grow 20-50 plants in that space, easily, depending on the size of them, it seems...

Fitzera · Apr 8, 2020

You're looking at garbage. Their website doesnt even list a 4000w, tells me this is old technology even for them, because it's all old technology compared to what's out there now. Or it was such a failure that they removed it. But they do have a "3000w" on their website..."average 650w draw". What does average even mean? It fluctuates? I dont believe my leds fluctuate in draw...but maybe I'm wrong.

I wouldnt even consider this light or any offered by them. I would gladly take autocobs over something like this. And trying to find 1 led to run a 10x10 room isn't going to happen. Multiple lower wattage lights spread out are a better option to keep light as even as possible throughout the whole space.

PurplePotion · Apr 8, 2020

Fluence and NextLight both produce some of the most powerful individual units and are also some of the most expensive. HLG is on par with quality, but the majority of their lights are 480W or less per unit, which is great for a 4x4 or even a 5x5 depending on growing style, so nothing bad to say about em. These are going to be your best pre assembled, name brand lights.

If you want to save a little money, but still want a recognizable brand, pre-assembled yadda yadda Spider Farm and Mars Hydro would be my next suggestion.

If you’re really looking for the best bang for the buck and aren’t in a hurry, I don’t think you’ll find a better deal than Kingbrite’s 240W top bin Lm301b units on Alibaba.com (ships direct from China).

Boyd Crowder · Apr 9, 2020

i can build a 600w led light at 3500k for $400-450 with shipping, wagos,terminals, frames and bits. it will be light , it will be passive it will drop 90k lumens in a 4x 4 area.
if you would just listen for a sec about anything 4000 watts & led in the same paragraph - run away - that sounds like 2015 mars led brochure lol

f-e · Apr 9, 2020

I couldn't even plug a 4000w light in. With our 'not to shabby' 230v supply, that's over 17 amps. Who's household plugs can do that? On a 110v supply, it's over 36 amps. It must come with plug and lead that look like a firemans hose lol

It's not real. The same confusion revolves around the general service lamps that most of us are sat under. It's all 'equivalent' figures. You can pick up a 100, and find it's a 14w LED labeled 100. It replaces a 100. Which as stories go, seems understandable.

Then, because it's a lie, somebody told a bigger lie. Then bigger. Until this light comes claiming it's better than 4 1000w DE lamps (when surrounded by 4 1000w DE lamps)

I'm going to presume you use about 600w per meter with HIDs. It's possible that 400w of top efficiency LEDs could replace that. Many are choosing a 480w light such as the HLG550 for the job. We don't really hear about single lights that can cover a whole room. Such a room really wants 9 of them 480w units. That seems wasteful though. I mean.. If your going to get your money out, you don't want the same performance. You want 16 of them. That would be the business. You wouldn't run them turned right up, but could get them quite low down and still get good illumination between the lights. This gets light into all the gaps. Though you are treating yourself a bit with that kind of expenditure. Perhaps some of the 240w $200 lights can sum up to something similar powered, with a better spread of light units.

Fixer · Apr 9, 2020

Hello [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]AntidoteMan,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]check out;[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]HLG has DIY components if you're trying to save money.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]These vendors all make horticultural grade equipment;[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] https://forevergreenindoors.com/
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
https://www.lumigrow.com/

If your in England;

https://lumatek-lighting.com/

The inexpensive fixtures you see on Ebay and Amazon are not comparable. I own three Mars Hydro lights which are a good value but not on par with the aforementioned. If you want more than hobbyist grade lights you'll need to spend $1,000+ for a decent fixture unless you build it yourself. :tiphat:

Mars Hydro Led · Apr 10, 2020

Seems like there is no LED light that can cover 10x10ft in this market so far.

The biggest one is 5x5 coverage light.
It is 2020, the blurple LED has been out of style. People love to use the new QB design light. :tiphat:

99problems · Apr 10, 2020

If you want the best coverage for the lowest price DIY is your best option.

PurplePotion already recommended the kingbrites with Samsung's lm301 which is pretty much plug and play, order some of those and some meanwell drivers and you are good to go.

If you want to go even cheaper and more diy you can go for led strips from digikey.
You got Samsung LEDs and bridgelux EB gen2/3 as your best options.

The old gen2 is being sold out at the moment so you could get the 2' ones for ~6 and the 4' ones for ~10 , it you run them at 700ma you can run them passive, I have them on a thin piece of aluminium flashing running them around 900ma and they barely get warm.

Jazzy · Apr 15, 2020

Hi guys!

I've been searching on Alibaba for a new light.
Im looking to buy a bar style led for a 4x4, possibly DIY.
I want 3000k 301b or 301h with 660nm.
Doesn't have to be the cheapest, performance (efficiency/spread) and quality is more important.

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Jazzy

Frosty Nuggets · Apr 15, 2020

Jazzy said:
Hi guys!

I've been searching on Alibaba for a new light.
Im looking to buy a bar style led for a 4x4, possibly DIY.
I want 3000k 301b or 301h with 660nm.
Doesn't have to be the cheapest, performance (efficiency/spread) and quality is more important.

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Jazzy

Then avoid Alibaba as it is all cheap Chinese junk.
Go with HLG (Horticultural Lighting Group).

Chevy cHaze · Apr 15, 2020

Seeing a light that's supposed to cover 10'x10' would make me highly suspicious. Who would use something like this? With LEDs you want to spread out the diodes evenly.
Even with HIDs you would hang one 1000w light above an area of let's say 4'x4' and then do the same until you have your whole grow covered. You do the same with LED fixtures, one next to the other...
Good luck

CC

Jazzy · Apr 18, 2020

Frosty Nuggets said:
Then avoid Alibaba as it is all cheap Chinese junk.
Go with HLG (Horticultural Lighting Group).

HLG seems nice, but do they make bars?

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