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Restricting the Flow of a 1200 GPH Pump?

BuzzBob56

BuzzBob56

Active member
I have just ordered a Danner 1200 GPH Pump.

Quick simple question: Does it cause undue stress on the pump's motor to restrict its flow rate via a Ball Valve down-line from the pump?

I bought big, for future expansion. But my current requirements are far less than the pump's stated capacity. If it would not cause the pump damage, I may restrict its flow by up to 50%

Thx for any feedback!
 
I'mback

I'mback

Comfortably numb!
Restricting a pump's discharge is never a good thing. Most "regulated pumps" return extra to the suction side of the pump. In this case the reservoir. e.g let's say your discharge is a 1/2" line. A better option is to discharge both, let's say a 1/2 line to the system with a 3/8" line back to the res.
 
P

popta

Member
I'mback said:
Restricting a pump's discharge is never a good thing. Most "regulated pumps" return extra to the suction side of the pump. In this case the reservoir. e.g let's say your discharge is a 1/2" line. A better option is to discharge both, let's say a 1/2 line to the system with a 3/8" line back to the res.
Click to expand...

I'm no pump expert but I remember Dolphin says their pumps can be restricted with a ball valve without harm, so maybe it's different for different types of pumps? This is from dolphin's site:

"Flow rates on all Amp Master Pumps may be dialed back with a discharge ball valve to any desired flow rate with no harm to the pump. Amperage rate will drop as flow rate is reduced to your desired rate. The most efficient way to plumb any system is to install a ball valve at the discharge union then a tee fitting plumbing a closed loop manifold with return reducing tees wherever you want a flow return. A closed loop can be any shape or design as long as both ends return to the tee at the ball valve. This ensures even pressure through your return manifold."
 
troutman

troutman

Seed Whore
I'mback said:
Restricting a pump's discharge is never a good thing. Most "regulated pumps" return extra to the suction side of the pump. In this case the reservoir. e.g let's say your discharge is a 1/2" line. A better option is to discharge both, let's say a 1/2 line to the system with a 3/8" line back to the res.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like putting a T after the pump and 2 ball valves after it with directing one outlet into your garden
and other one back into the reservoir is probably the best way. To regulate how much water your garden
gets just adjust the flow with the ball valves.
 
BuzzBob56

BuzzBob56

Active member
Thx for the replies!! :woohoo:

To add a bit more context { without the dissertation I started to reply with, #TLDR }, I am setting up a scaled back 4 bucket Bio-Bucket System. I am looking to circulate the buckets at least 10 times per hour. However, too much flow, I feel, might be problematic. Thus why I am thinking if it would not be too stressful on the pump, to reduce the flow { either before or after the pump } using a single Ball Valve, for overall flow control. { each bucket also has its own Ball Valve, as well }

Planning ahead for expansion after a few grows, I've been planning to run 1.5" lines from the Rez to the Pump, and from the Pump to buckets. At the buckets, each feed is reduced to 3/4" with a separate Ball Valve to tweak flow. Outflow from the buckets is gravity fed back to the Rez for re-circulation.

With only 4 buckets for now, I really only require like 200 GPH { 4 buckets x 5 gallons x 10 times per hour }. But the thought of buying small now, with pre-planned obsolescence, feels like swallowing a fork. You know?

Anyway... Buzzed Bob will stop now, spellcheck, reread, and get this posted!

Any additional thoughts?




I'mback said:
Restricting a pump's discharge is never a good thing. Most "regulated pumps" return extra to the suction side of the pump. In this case the reservoir. e.g let's say your discharge is a 1/2" line. A better option is to discharge both, let's say a 1/2 line to the system with a 3/8" line back to the res.
Click to expand...

popta said:
I'm no pump expert but I remember Dolphin says their pumps can be restricted with a ball valve without harm, so maybe it's different for different types of pumps? This is from dolphin's site:

"Flow rates on all Amp Master Pumps may be dialed back with a discharge ball valve to any desired flow rate with no harm to the pump. Amperage rate will drop as flow rate is reduced to your desired rate. The most efficient way to plumb any system is to install a ball valve at the discharge union then a tee fitting plumbing a closed loop manifold with return reducing tees wherever you want a flow return. A closed loop can be any shape or design as long as both ends return to the tee at the ball valve. This ensures even pressure through your return manifold."
Click to expand...
 
BuzzBob56

BuzzBob56

Active member
Hmmmm... Now there's an idea! With the "extra" line running straight back to the Rez, whatever is not needed for the buckets can be "dumped," keeping back-pressure off the pump. I like it!!

Thx TM!! :woohoo:


troutman said:
Yeah, like putting a T after the pump and 2 ball valves after it with directing one outlet into your garden
and other one back into the reservoir is probably the best way. To regulate how much water your garden
gets just adjust the flow with the ball valves.
Click to expand...
 
I'mback

I'mback

Comfortably numb!
popta said:
I'm no pump expert but I remember Dolphin says their pumps can be restricted with a ball valve without harm, so maybe it's different for different types of pumps? This is from dolphin's site:

"Flow rates on all Amp Master Pumps may be dialed back with a discharge ball valve to any desired flow rate with no harm to the pump. Amperage rate will drop as flow rate is reduced to your desired rate. The most efficient way to plumb any system is to install a ball valve at the discharge union then a tee fitting plumbing a closed loop manifold with return reducing tees wherever you want a flow return. A closed loop can be any shape or design as long as both ends return to the tee at the ball valve. This ensures even pressure through your return manifold."
Click to expand...
I'm a marine engineer and explained how I would go about it. Remember, sellers sell stuff and buyers buy stuff and trust me, although failures ruin their reputation, it is all about sales!

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ball valves are either open or shut. They are not regulating valves! [/FONT]
 
troutman

troutman

Seed Whore
I'mback said:
I'm a marine engineer and explained how I would go about it. Remember, sellers sell stuff and buyers buy stuff and trust me, although failures ruin their reputation, it is all about sales!

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ball valves are either open or shut. They are not regulating valves! [/FONT]
Click to expand...

You can regulate the water flow by varying which valve is more open or closed. It's what
I've done in the past with my marine aquarium when I didn't want to give my fish too much
water flow from the pump. They also do this in fish hatcheries.
 
troutman

troutman

Seed Whore
In this pic you can see where the water comes from the pump in the sump (aka reservoir)
and is diverted thru either ball valve 1 or 2 in this marine reef tank setup.

Plumbing-Roadmap-Sketch-NO-Title2.png
 
I'mback

I'mback

Comfortably numb!
troutman said:
You can regulate the water flow by varying which valve is more open or closed. It's what
I've done in the past with my marine aquarium when I didn't want to give my fish too much
water flow from the pump. They also do this in fish hatcheries.
Click to expand...
Ball valves and gate valves are open or shut. Globe valves OTOH can be used as regulating valves (flow restrictors). It is what it is. That being said, ball valves are cheap and folks don't care about having to replace them butr5 they are not designed to be regulating valves, sorry. :)
 
hush

hush

Señor Member
Veteran
In my experience, the easiest, practical way to safely lower the flow rate of a high-flow water pump is to increase the vertical rise of the water flow. You'll be amazed at how effective that can be.
 
BuzzBob56

BuzzBob56

Active member
Thx again, IB, for your experience and insights! I feel I completely understand what you're saying:
  • Back-pressure on the pump caused by excessive restrictions = Bad, and
  • The use of Ball Valves as Flow Control is not optimum, and there are much more precise, and optimal, valves for such purposes.

    That said, I do not need precise metering, and having to replace worn valves from time to time is really not a problem. So, I believe I will going with the solution where I do not restrict the flow from the pump, but merely route excess directly back to the Res, using a Ball Valve as a regulator, potentially problematic as that may be.
I'mback said:
Ball valves and gate valves are open or shut. Globe valves OTOH can be used as regulating valves (flow restrictors). It is what it is. That being said, ball valves are cheap and folks don't care about having to replace them butr5 they are not designed to be regulating valves, sorry. :)
Click to expand...
 
R

redlaser

Active member
Veteran
Globe valves are not much more than a ball valve for what that is worth. Some are 3,4,5x as much but after making a recirculation loop for a mist system I found some almost the same price to double the price of ball valves.
 
I'mback

I'mback

Comfortably numb!
hush said:
In my experience, the easiest, practical way to safely lower the flow rate of a high-flow water pump is to increase the vertical rise of the water flow. You'll be amazed at how effective that can be.
Click to expand...
That would be correct!
 
I'mback

I'mback

Comfortably numb!
redlaser said:
Globe valves are not much more than a ball valve for what that is worth. Some are 3,4,5x as much but after making a recirculation loop for a mist system I found some almost the same price to double the price of ball valves.
Click to expand...
That would be as complete falsehood. Please research the delta between, vice spreading unnuendo:

  • ball valves
  • gate valves
  • parallel slide valves; and
  • globe valves
A ball valve is a device with a spherical closure unit that provides on/off control of flow. The sphere has a port, also known as a bore, through the center. When the valve is positioned such that the bore is aligned in the same direction as the pipeline, it is in open position and fluid can flow through it. Normally a 1/4 turn to open or close. Also known as quick closing!

Gate valves are used when a straight-line flow of fluid and minimum flow restriction are needed. Gate valves use a sliding plate within the valve body to stop, limit, or permit full flow of fluids through the valve. The gate is usually wedge-shaped.

Parallel slide gate valves use system pressure and position to provide positive isolation. The spring is fitted between disc to provide initial searing force, and do no maintain sealing force. ... Parallel slide gate valves provide a smooth flow path between seats.

The globe valve is used for throttling flow control. Shut off is accomplished by moving the disc against the flow stream rather than across it as in the case with a gate valve. The flow pattern through a globe valve involves changes in direction, resulting in greater resistance to flow, causing high pressure drop. Because the flow enters under the (round) seat, up and out. It prevents wire drawing. This may be benign in our application, but a MUST in other applications.

There are many others of course. You can use an axe to pound a nail. Yet an axe is not a hammer!
 
Last edited:
C

capnCõno

Member
I'd be more worried bout the heat a pump that size will generate especially restricted running all the time ... I wouldn't use a ball valve , just like what was above a t goin back to ya Rez may help with a valve ..but the pump is hella over sized but u can never move to much water only gonna up the o2 I'd try it without with 1 1/2 pipes u should be fine
 
R

redlaser

Active member
Veteran
I'mback said:
That would be as complete falsehood. Please research the delta between, vice spreading unnuendo:

  • ball valves
  • gate valves
  • parallel slide valves; and
  • globe valves
A ball valve is a device with a spherical closure unit that provides on/off control of flow. The sphere has a port, also known as a bore, through the center. When the valve is positioned such that the bore is aligned in the same direction as the pipeline, it is in open position and fluid can flow through it. Normally a 1/4 turn to open or close. Also known as quick closing!

Gate valves are used when a straight-line flow of fluid and minimum flow restriction are needed. Gate valves use a sliding plate within the valve body to stop, limit, or permit full flow of fluids through the valve. The gate is usually wedge-shaped.

Parallel slide gate valves use system pressure and position to provide positive isolation. The spring is fitted between disc to provide initial searing force, and do no maintain sealing force. ... Parallel slide gate valves provide a smooth flow path between seats.

The globe valve is used for throttling flow control. Shut off is accomplished by moving the disc against the flow stream rather than across it as in the case with a gate valve. The flow pattern through a globe valve involves changes in direction, resulting in greater resistance to flow, causing high pressure drop. Because the flow enters under the (round) seat, up and out. It prevents wire drawing. This may be benign in our application, but a MUST in other applications.

There are many others of course. You can use an axe to pound a nail. Yet an axe is not a hammer!
Click to expand...

Ive always found it helpful if a person takes the time to read a post before accusing that poster of writing “a complete falsehood” and “spreading innuendo”

My post was primarily on pricing of globe versus ball valves. How you read it otherwise is something only you can answer.
 
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