Inducing quick bud set, and decreasing internodal distance with silicic acid?

I am familiar with Triancontanol, and Kinetin as growth regulators, but i have been seeing other alternative options out there recently in terms of, producing closer internodes, quicker flower formation, and more overall yield.

Aptus says that if you double the dose of fasilitor, it will basically have the same effect as the products listed above. Is this true in your experience?

Also i saw someone mentioned that H&G Drip clean is the same thing as fasilitor, just at a lower concentration. Is this true? Has anyone tried tripling the dose of drip clean to get the effects that aptus claims there product has at 2x dosage?

I was told that dutch master silica has a higher concentration of silicic acid in it than almost any other product in an average hydro shop. Can anyone confirm this?

Am i better off sticking with the tria and kinetin? If so, what product/s would you suggest?

wait isn't that asprin? asprin is cheap. and you can make it whatever concentration you want. I use it just to help plants cope better with stress. I really don't notice any difference between plants that get it and ones that don't.

sorry I I see I misread. asprin is acetylsalicylic acid

There is a difference between SILICIC ACID, and SALYCIC ACID.

Drip clean is basically phosphoric acid and potassium. It is commercially available as PeKacid. You can make drip clean by mixing 1 lb of PeKacid with 1 gallon of water. I haven't done this, but I have a pound of PeKacid coming in the mail to try out one day.

I think the reason they say it can be used as a bloom Booster is because it's something like 0-60-30.

now you have two posters talking about things that are not what you asked about.

hopefully someone who knows will help

i thought aspirin was acetaminophen?

well there goes this thread

Dutchmaster Silica is potassium silicate which is not plant available. the MSDS states that it is at a max of 4.99%. From what I've been reading you need microbes to break it down and the real benefits of potassium silicate is that when you foliar the plant, it sends signals to boost immunity but doesn't actually provide any Si to the plant.

Silicic acid is plant available and it is done using a process best left to professionals with lab coats and that is why the facilitator is so spendy and why you won't find it in other products like rhino skin and agisil from GH.

actemetaphine (sp?) is Tylenol and people usually use the aspirin at 325 mg per gallon and there is no silica in that but it boosts immunity and help fight off attacks.

that is from what I've been reading.

so I chose to use expanded shale mixed into my medium. it can be used in hydro and in soil. it will slow release silicic acid in a plant available form, aerates my soil and I mixed it in with clay pellets in hydro. it also houses beneficials well and won't screw with your ph. it is also under $20 for a large bag. way better than $140 for facilitator.

you could also use red lake earth

stihgnobevoli said:

i thought aspirin was acetaminophen?

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that is Tylenol

Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid

sorry I can't help with the actual question, smurfin herb

optic foliar switch containing ethylene will do what the OP wants

I have tried aptus regulator at 2,5ml/10L in hydro and got much shorter plants with very good heat resistance.
But i am not sure about the other claims.
Yield and quality were not impacted.
I cannot compare with aspirin,kinetin or triancontanol because i never used them.
I am not sure 2,5ml/10L is a double dose.

Instead of Silicic acid, have you looked into BAP (Benzylaminopurine)?

I'm also trying to decreasing inter-nodal distance while increasing total number of bud sites.There's a thread on it here.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=226107&page=7

I can vouch for the Aptus Fasilitor it is by far the best Silica product on the market since Barricade was discontinued by Advanced Nutrients. The Fasilitor makes indicas bushier and it will slow vertical growth to an extent but with Sativa leaning strains it will not slow their vertical growth as much if at all but it will make for overall sturdier plants. It definitely speeds strains up by 3-7 days strain dependent of course.

smurfin'herb said:

I am familiar with Triancontanol, and Kinetin as growth regulators, but i have been seeing other alternative options out there recently in terms of, producing closer internodes, quicker flower formation, and more overall yield.

Aptus says that if you double the dose of fasilitor, it will basically have the same effect as the products listed above. Is this true in your experience?

Also i saw someone mentioned that H&G Drip clean is the same thing as fasilitor, just at a lower concentration. Is this true? Has anyone tried tripling the dose of drip clean to get the effects that aptus claims there product has at 2x dosage?

I was told that dutch master silica has a higher concentration of silicic acid in it than almost any other product in an average hydro shop. Can anyone confirm this?

Am i better off sticking with the tria and kinetin? If so, what product/s would you suggest?

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Cytokinins. I very much doubt that silicic acid will elicit the morphological changes you are looking for.... Who knows re actives in the various additives you mention - so much dribble and hype but no actual consumer protection and regulations where manufacturers need to list actives

I have used Dutch Masters silica to limit stretch during the first couple weeks of flower. I don't remember the exact ratio I used, but it was about double the recommended dose.
It didnt make flowers form any sooner (bud blood or bud igniter both work well for that) and I don't know if it increased yield at all but it definitely limited stretch well. I think it just kind of stunts the plants a bit...

I used that Aptus believer pack (fasiltor & start boost) side by side with the Dutch masters silica and didnt notice any real difference. If anything I think maybe the Dutch masters worked better (and it's waaayy cheaper).

Watering with higher doses of nitrozyme (as well as a foliar feed at start of flower) helps the plants stack up well for flower too.

Oh btw, Dutch masters Silica is (mono) silicic acid, same thing that's in Aptus fasiltor (without the boron). I can't confirm that it has higher levels of silicic acid than other products though. But it is pretty high. The only silica products i know of that use silicic acid are Dutch masters and aptus. There may be others but I don't know of them off hand. Most of the others use potassium silicate I think.
If you are a big believer in the fasiltor I would highly recommend trying the Dutch masters silica I think it works as well or better for much much cheaper.

TedNugget said:

Oh btw, Dutch masters Silica is (mono) silicic acid, same thing that's in Aptus fasiltor (without the boron). I can't confirm that it has higher levels of silicic acid than other products though. But it is pretty high. The only silica products i know of that use silicic acid are Dutch masters and aptus. There may be others but I don't know of them off hand. Most of the others use potassium silicate I think.
If you are a big believer in the fasiltor I would highly recommend trying the Dutch masters silica I think it works as well or better for much much cheaper.

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Few points:


1) Firstly, you sound a bit like a Dark Master shill - watch out they'll be making a public statement soon to the effect yes we know we have been busted as the biggest PGR peddlars of all time but our silicate product which acts like a chem PGR has been tested by the CDFA and come up clean Just joking mate but seriously you've been lead up the garden path and are now leading others up it.

2) Plants as far as I'm aware (and I'm pretty sure as far as science is aware to date) only uptake silicate as silicic acid so any Si product whether that be potassium silcate, silicic acid etc should then theoretically induce the same morphological response if used at the right levels (BTW - I wrote about silica many years ago before it was commonly available through hydroponic stores and after about 15 years of using it with numerous strains have never seen it reduce stretch - although have seen it totally screw with budset when used at too high levels as would be expected with any nutrient)

3) Aptus shows a CDFA test that shows 8 chemical PGRs - there are many many many more that the CDFA aren't testing for. I was the guy that advised the CDFA what to test for and broke the story about chem PGR products (just one of which was Dark Masters Superdud AKA Phosphoload AKA potent human carcinogen Alar and PBZ thinnly disguised as humatic isolates and other science defying wank) that are available through the hydroponics retail sector. I have recently been in contact with the CDFA and a med testing laboratory to ask a few questions and to give the CDFA a few more actives to test for. Actives that are definitely present in a few additives that have managed to slip through the CDFA testing procedures. So when Aptus says hey look at us, we are clean... that could mean yes they are or no they aren't but the CDFA hasn't tested for a large number of the right actives (e.g. triazoles which act as BR biosynthesis inhibitors). The thing is that if a product acts like a chem PGR such as PBZ than the chances are it contains a chem PGR (whether that PGR be harmful to human health or not is another thing)

3) While silicic acid won't reduce stretch there are several things that will - for example, jasmonic acid or theobroxide, a natural product, that strongly stimulates the biosynthesis of jasmonic acid (JA)

Basically mate, if you are using a Si product and it is dramatically reducing stretch and acting like a chem PGR than someone is hiding something. This said, I must look into whether hitting a plant with high levels of boron could perhaps retard growth through inhibiting GA etc. I doubt it but then I've been wrong before and without actually looking at research you never really know.

Don't know anything about silicic acid, but I can recommend amino aide from roots soul synthetics line. Don't think I would put it in a sterile res or hydro but in soil soilless it's awesome. Doesnt speed up bud se IME but it does stack nodes more effectively than anything else I've tried (obviously not gonna be as insane of an effect as a pgr but that's a good thing ). Definitely a healthy dose of n in there so maybe cut back a bit of n somewhere from your regiment when you run it. With a 3 part I just leave out the 1 or 2 mls of grow they call for and run amino aide at 4-5 mls per. Couldn't quite tell if it kept height down last time, kind of hope it doesn't actually.

May I suggest an excellent Silica reference available at this link: www.privilifesciences.com/download/A-review-of-Silicon-and-its-benefits-for-plants.pdf

Some excerpts: