Triploid?

Look I'm just gonna link the article and ask everyone here. Does this seem like bullshit? Because, and I'm not a geneticist, but it seems hard to believe that the same company with the highest known CBG strain in the world from an extremely rare genetic mutation would also be able to, again as I'm aware, pull off the only Triploid Cannabis success story. I understand that breeding Triploid Cananbis can be done and I've read a couple of studies about those projects but in general they produced shit results as best as I can tell. How did OCBD pull off yet another incredible, never seen before breeding project? Am I missing something?

As a side note just say no to sterile Cannabis.

It sounds legit to me, but I'd wonder about this part.
Dr. Hsuan Chen and Brendan Rojas, research plant breeders at Oregon CBD, designed a series of experiments to treat diploid cannabis tissue with compounds known to inhibit cell division. The process approximates the tetraploid-inducing events that occur in nature at a very low rate, but does so (now, after many experiments) in a more consistent manner. --- Success results in tetraploids: plants with four sets of homologous chromosomes (4n) and an identical doubled version of the mother.

Just what exactly they treated the cannabis with. compounds known to inhibit cell division could be literally anything. It says it's being certified organic, but I wonder if that's just the breeding of the 4n back with the 2n plants, not the creation of the 4n plants themselves.

Making a Cannabis triploid strain without even chemicals would be possible if you could get the right starting material.

BTW: I know how to do it. Getting the natural rare tetraploid Cannabis would be hard though.

Crossing a tetraploid with a natural diploid is how they make seedless fruit. In case you didn't know, seedless fruit are triploids.

The tetraploid (4x) meiotic chromosome count of 2n=40 in Cannabis sativa L. from cold desert area of Lahul-Spiti is reported here for the first time.

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This is a PDF:

Abnormal Meiosis in Tetraploid (4x) Cannabis sativa (L.) from Lahaul - Spiti (Cold Desert Higher Altitude Himalayas) - A Neglected But Important Herb

rizraz said:

Look I'm just gonna link the article and ask everyone here. Does this seem like bullshit? Because, and I'm not a geneticist, but it seems hard to believe that the same company with the highest known CBG strain in the world from an extremely rare genetic mutation would also be able to, again as I'm aware, pull off the only Triploid Cannabis success story. I understand that breeding Triploid Cananbis can be done and I've read a couple of studies about those projects but in general they produced shit results as best as I can tell. How did OCBD pull off yet another incredible, never seen before breeding project? Am I missing something?

As a side note just say no to sterile Cannabis.

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I think OregonCBD is the real deal. Making progress on multiple fronts seems like what you’d expect from a legitimate industry leader. But SamS was skeptical, too, about the triploids. See this thread for more detail straight from the source.

Yeah making a triploid strain is possible, my questions was more does any one else find it weird the OCBD keeps making claims that they've found or forced rare genetic combinations without genetic modifications.

The White is a clear example of at best dubious origins that is the product of likely the rarest SNIP ever and according to the Crawfords it could have happened to anyone, they just got lucky. Then not a year later they have a method for recreating every strain in their line up at triploid that works to create good offspring. I guess I'm too skeptical all the time and none of this seems out of line.

Troutman, thanks for the replies. I was aware that seedless fruit was a triploid breeding at its best. That is a really interesting cultivar you linked there, what a thing, who knew (well you did I guess.) I will say from my point of view having a seedless apple tree has a lot different implications than a seedless Cannabis plant.


Just to say it again, just say no to sterile cannabis.

Thanks for comment and the link. Sam hit the nail on the head as far my concerns. Which now looking back at my late night post wasn't expressed well. I hope you're right and everything is on the up and up but I would feel irresponsible if I didn't publicly state that I have serious doubts about two major projects of OCBD. Particularly surrounding how young of a seed company they are and the lack of credit they give to the original stock. While I don't think anyone can say without a doubt that I'm right or wrong I did feel it was a needed discussion, even if I'm the only voice of opposition. To say again I hope I'm wrong, but something doesn't feel right.

zif said:

I think OregonCBD is the real deal. Making progress on multiple fronts seems like what you’d expect from a legitimate industry leader. But SamS was skeptical, too, about the triploids. See this thread for more detail straight from the source.

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rizraz said:

Yeah making a triploid strain is possible, my questions was more does any one else find it weird the OCBD keeps making claims that they've found or forced rare genetic combinations without genetic modifications.

The White is a clear example of at best dubious origins that is the product of likely the rarest SNIP ever and according to the Crawfords it could have happened to anyone, they just got lucky. Then not a year later they have a method for recreating every strain in their line up at triploid that works to create good offspring. I guess I'm too skeptical all the time and none of this seems out of line.

Troutman, thanks for the replies. I was aware that seedless fruit was a triploid breeding at its best. That is a really interesting cultivar you linked there, what a thing, who knew (well you did I guess.) I will say from my point of view having a seedless apple tree has a lot different implications than a seedless Cannabis plant.


Just to say it again, just say no to sterile cannabis.

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Hey rizraz,

To be clear, the Crawford brothers DID NOT say the SNP responsible for CBGA accumulation in their varieties was "the rarest in the world". I say this as one of the two (this is Seth, hi!). There is a video posted to our IG account (@oregoncbd) where I explain what the SNP is and where it is located. In short, it emerged in our breeding program naturally in 2016 and is a THCAS synthase. It shares exact sequence homology with other active THCAS synthases found in certain type I THC-rich plants (Animal Cookies, Cake Breath, etc.), with the exception of a SNP (single nucleotide change) at base pair 1064.



The technology to modify a single nucleotide was just developed at MIT in 2019 using a modified CRISPR approach. While I appreciate the suggestion that we are more advanced than those most brilliant of scientists and beat them to the punch by 3 years, it's just not true--and the sequence homology to other fully functioning version of THCAS demonstrates that clearly.

We have been working diligently to improve other important traits while selecting for the presence of this particular synthase. Because THCAS and CBDAS reside on chromosome 7 and in a region that is very unlikely to be subject to recombination forces, our only limitation on how this gene can be utilized in concert with other traits are the location of those traits. For example, if a gene for PM resistance is found, we can incorporate it into a new variety that is type IV (CBG dominant) via traditional breeding as long as it "lives" on any chromosome other than 7. Replace PM resistance gene with any gene of interest (TPS genes, flower time, precursor compound genes, etc.) and the same is true. Luckily, we have not discovered many other critical traits that "live" on C7--though that is likely to change with more data.

To answer the more general question of "how OCBD keeps doing this": we get up really early, work non-stop, and have a small team of brilliant scientists. All of the money we made in the early days of selling hemp seed (2016-2020) has been constantly reinvested into facilities, equipment, and people. I just responded in a longer form about this in the "Industrial Hemp in Oregon" thread I started in 2016. It's probably obvious, but we truly love what we do and recognize the long-term importance of this plant (medicine, food, shelter) in the survival of our species. Our life's work and tiny contribution to humanity is to understand how it works.

Hey guys, I'm gonna suggest this thread move to https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=330712 which has way more detailed information and offers a lot more historical discussions and also has Seth from Oregon CBD replying.

Troutman, shouldn't that read 4n 20 rather than 2n 40? For the tetraploid with the triploid being 3n 20.

GMT said:

Troutman, shouldn't that read 4n 20 rather than 2n 40? For the tetraploid with the triploid being 3n 20.

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That's the title of the article. Ask the scientists who wrote it.

How embarrassing for them to make such a mistake. That's a typo and a half.