Bo Selecta!
New member
What About?
Fine Vs Fluff
Or
Fluff On Top And Fine At The Bottom?
Fine Vs Fluff
Or
Fluff On Top And Fine At The Bottom?
Last edited:
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Perlite cut vs. straight coco - a documented trial w/ clones
- Thread starter Mr. Bongjangles
- Start date
Hey everyone.. Update time!
Thanks for the comments and kind words from all who have left them. I see we have a few questions...
avgjoe - Canna has a bit more texture as I recall, but both are high quality. I started with Canna, then switched to Botanicare after the first round and stuck with it because Canna is harder for me to get economically and Botanicare seemed to do just as well. Would be a good side-by-side for the future though.
bubbless - I dunno if the mixed will help with root development.. Compared to the rockwool chunks though, I don't think it would be a similar effect because the roots can't grow through the chunks. Hopefully they will make a more oxygenated environment for the roots or something. Man you'll see below, I'm not happy with the mixed so far, it will need to do something like that to catch up at this point..
Bo Selecta! - Someday man, someday..
OK so on with this update, day 13 since transplant..
1 & 2 - Similar development, but the all coco plant is a little shorter than the coco/perlite plant. Could be shaping up to be more "bushy" but I think its a little early to say.
X & Y - Very similar, though one is making mostly 5 finger leaves and the other is making larger 3 finger leaves. Due to the clone, not the coco mix.
A & B - Same deal as 1 & 2.
Mixed & B - Not digging the mixed coco so far.. Something in there stressed the plant after transplant, despite getting a good flush. New growth was going an ugly yellow, so I gave it another good flushing which seemed to resolve the issue after a few days.
I wonder if because it drains so fast, it was flushing "clean" along with the others but really wasn't removing the salts like the slower draining coco and coco/perlite mix.
So that's all for now, thanks again for stopping in everyone!
Thanks for the comments and kind words from all who have left them. I see we have a few questions...
avgjoe - Canna has a bit more texture as I recall, but both are high quality. I started with Canna, then switched to Botanicare after the first round and stuck with it because Canna is harder for me to get economically and Botanicare seemed to do just as well. Would be a good side-by-side for the future though.
bubbless - I dunno if the mixed will help with root development.. Compared to the rockwool chunks though, I don't think it would be a similar effect because the roots can't grow through the chunks. Hopefully they will make a more oxygenated environment for the roots or something. Man you'll see below, I'm not happy with the mixed so far, it will need to do something like that to catch up at this point..
Bo Selecta! - Someday man, someday..
OK so on with this update, day 13 since transplant..
1 & 2 - Similar development, but the all coco plant is a little shorter than the coco/perlite plant. Could be shaping up to be more "bushy" but I think its a little early to say.
X & Y - Very similar, though one is making mostly 5 finger leaves and the other is making larger 3 finger leaves. Due to the clone, not the coco mix.
A & B - Same deal as 1 & 2.
Mixed & B - Not digging the mixed coco so far.. Something in there stressed the plant after transplant, despite getting a good flush. New growth was going an ugly yellow, so I gave it another good flushing which seemed to resolve the issue after a few days.
I wonder if because it drains so fast, it was flushing "clean" along with the others but really wasn't removing the salts like the slower draining coco and coco/perlite mix.
So that's all for now, thanks again for stopping in everyone!
thatguy
Active member
Interesting results so far!
Concerning that mixed coco, a buddy of mine is using mixed fine/chunky coco and perlite. It definitely doesn't hold as much water as my fine coco/perlite mix, and obviously drains much faster. The interesting thing I found, though, was that the roots didn't grow downward much, mainly outwards. A 8", well rooted clone in a keg cup only had roots about 4" down into the cup.
In my mix, I'd have already had roots curling around the bottom of the keg cup.
All the best,
TG
Concerning that mixed coco, a buddy of mine is using mixed fine/chunky coco and perlite. It definitely doesn't hold as much water as my fine coco/perlite mix, and obviously drains much faster. The interesting thing I found, though, was that the roots didn't grow downward much, mainly outwards. A 8", well rooted clone in a keg cup only had roots about 4" down into the cup.
In my mix, I'd have already had roots curling around the bottom of the keg cup.
All the best,
TG
B00st3d
Member
Great thread idea. I'll be checkin in once a week or so. I just switched from cococan to cocogro and Im wondering if I was supposed to rinse the cocogro first? And what difference do you think it makes by using coarse hydrofarm perlite or FF big n chunky? I just put 10 germinated Femmed Ice cream seeds in a 70/30 cocogro/coarse perlite mix. You think I should use the big chunky perlite when I transplant to 5 gallon buckets? Its just that its so expensive at 40 bux a bag and harder for me to get then the coarse stuff. The coarse perlite does seem easier to mix in with the coco tho at least the small batch I did.
thatguy
Active member
B00st3d, I don't think the FF perlite is necessary. I use the chunky perlite from my local garden supply store.
Mr. Bongjangles, I hope it's OK to throw a couple of pics up since it's kinda relevant.
This is a strawberry cough in a 5 1/2 in sq pot, watered 3 times a day, recirculating system using the GH 3 part and a crapload of supplements.
All the best,
TG
Mr. Bongjangles, I hope it's OK to throw a couple of pics up since it's kinda relevant.
This is a strawberry cough in a 5 1/2 in sq pot, watered 3 times a day, recirculating system using the GH 3 part and a crapload of supplements.
All the best,
TG
D
down7ime
Hey Bojangles, thanks for doing this!
I am just starting out but read somewhere that coco maintains moisture very well at the bottom areas of the pot and drys at the top quite quickly, so im wondering if it really needs watering after the top of the pot is visibly dry, perhaps it will last a quite a bit longer and visibly dry isnt a good enough indication?
If there is any truth to that then maybe there will be very little benefit to the extra water retention that perlite offers, especially if you use the same watering frequency?
Hey everyone, time for an update in this piece. Looks like it's been a while. Dunno about you guys, but I often don't notice how much development has really gone on until I look at older pics.
They grow up so fast! (wipes tear)
hehe
Everyone is looking good though, and I'd be hard pressed to declare a winner at this point. Even the mixed coco plant is on something of a comeback run, though doesn't look as bushy as the others.
Here's some pics, pre-transplant as they are ready for flowering:
1 & 2 -
X & Y -
A & B -
Mixed & B -
I see we have some questions.. I'm gonna be a bit brief, I wrote this whole post out with long elegant answers and then it disappeared when I switched to the wysiwyg editor to drop in the pictures. My fault really - knew i should have copied the text before doing anything that involved interaction with the server.
This site is going to give me a stroke.
Anyways..
Definitely flush, or you'll end up having to do it when you see ill-effects after transplant. Shouldn't take much, cocogro is good stuff imo.
I'd use the same perlite you used before if possible, but I doubt your plant would freak out if you had to use the regular kind.
Hell yeah.
As I understand it, coco doesn't give up nutrients the same way once the medium is unevenly moist. Don't know the details, this is just something I've picked up from people I respect and feel my own experience has confirmed.
Coco really acts like a sponge, so I imagine by the time one area can get visibly less dry than another the amount of available moisture must have dropped significantly. I know its the exposed top and all, but it takes days for the effect to happen in my big pots. If that takes 3 days, I want the medium to be the same as it is on days 1-2.
About the perlite water retention - I don't consider that a primary benefit. Thinking it over though, perhaps the extra water retention helps to keep the medium more evenly moist, a benefit I had not considered.
They grow up so fast! (wipes tear)
hehe
Everyone is looking good though, and I'd be hard pressed to declare a winner at this point. Even the mixed coco plant is on something of a comeback run, though doesn't look as bushy as the others.
Here's some pics, pre-transplant as they are ready for flowering:
1 & 2 -
X & Y -
A & B -
Mixed & B -
I see we have some questions.. I'm gonna be a bit brief, I wrote this whole post out with long elegant answers and then it disappeared when I switched to the wysiwyg editor to drop in the pictures. My fault really - knew i should have copied the text before doing anything that involved interaction with the server.
This site is going to give me a stroke.
Anyways..
Definitely flush, or you'll end up having to do it when you see ill-effects after transplant. Shouldn't take much, cocogro is good stuff imo.
I'd use the same perlite you used before if possible, but I doubt your plant would freak out if you had to use the regular kind.
Hell yeah.
As I understand it, coco doesn't give up nutrients the same way once the medium is unevenly moist. Don't know the details, this is just something I've picked up from people I respect and feel my own experience has confirmed.
Coco really acts like a sponge, so I imagine by the time one area can get visibly less dry than another the amount of available moisture must have dropped significantly. I know its the exposed top and all, but it takes days for the effect to happen in my big pots. If that takes 3 days, I want the medium to be the same as it is on days 1-2.
About the perlite water retention - I don't consider that a primary benefit. Thinking it over though, perhaps the extra water retention helps to keep the medium more evenly moist, a benefit I had not considered.
D
down7ime
thanks for the update, wow, if for nothing else this seems like a great way to save a little coin
jamrockjay
Member
Great thread Bongjangles, i have been told conflicting things when it comes to the question of adding perlite to coco so i will keep my eye on this one to see how ur trial goes.
so far In my experience with the 2 methods(100% vs cut) i can not see any difinitive growth differances or any yeild differances to this point. only thing i notice is draining/ runoff times vary. another factor here is placement. my gals are stationary, and this could contribute to my equal results, however there are a couple 100% coco bags in sweet spot, not out performing their mixed sisters, only in the the respect that they had a longer veg time... which can to some people be interperated as the cut coco is out performing the 100%, by way of growing similar size and yeilds, with a shorter veg time. i will have to do a few runs of this b4 i have a solid conclusion.
i also think coco is better when kept wet. i noticed my coco plants respond faster to the dryness(start to sag) faster than a dry soil plant show symptoms. i think because the soil core stays moist longer. i think they feed better when kept moist also... its like always having the expressway open, never and back up with the traffic. if you have ever notice, dry containers of coco will have salt build up on surfice layer. why does soil not do this?
i also think coco is better when kept wet. i noticed my coco plants respond faster to the dryness(start to sag) faster than a dry soil plant show symptoms. i think because the soil core stays moist longer. i think they feed better when kept moist also... its like always having the expressway open, never and back up with the traffic. if you have ever notice, dry containers of coco will have salt build up on surfice layer. why does soil not do this?
jamrockjay
Member
Mr B, do u have a update for us? I for one cant wait to see the difference in them now
Hey again everyone... Sorry for the lack of updates - I'm kinda just waiting to see the yield at this point, so I keep being lazy about taking them out for pictures.
That said, a few of them were leaning over yesterday, so stake time was a good opportunity to get pictures.
At this point, it looks to me like the coco/perlite plants are all looking a bit more chunky than their pure coco counterparts. Nothing dramatic, but its obvious in person and I think its pretty clear in the pics.
I can't get 2 plants into the frame and keep the pots, so for reference, the coco plants are on the left and the coco/perlite plants are on the right, as they've always been.
1 & 2 -
X & Y -
A & B -
Mixed & B - The mixed plant is making a nice main cola, but the side buds are not nearly as chunky as the coco or coco/perlite plants. Really looks like the mixed coco is going to be the loser here, even though its not the focus of the trial.
That said, a few of them were leaning over yesterday, so stake time was a good opportunity to get pictures.
At this point, it looks to me like the coco/perlite plants are all looking a bit more chunky than their pure coco counterparts. Nothing dramatic, but its obvious in person and I think its pretty clear in the pics.
I can't get 2 plants into the frame and keep the pots, so for reference, the coco plants are on the left and the coco/perlite plants are on the right, as they've always been.
1 & 2 -
X & Y -
A & B -
Mixed & B - The mixed plant is making a nice main cola, but the side buds are not nearly as chunky as the coco or coco/perlite plants. Really looks like the mixed coco is going to be the loser here, even though its not the focus of the trial.
KindHypnos
Member
Nice work Mr.B, I run straight coco so I'll definitely be looking forward to your results....
Thanks for sharing...
KH
Thanks for sharing...
KH
paranoidalien
Member
Dude thanks for the science
FaderVader
Member
This is awesome! Great job on the documentation and testing.
The problem is i have run this same experiment many times over the past few years. I LOVE coco lol and it kinda depends on a few factors. BUT i found that some plants really love how the perlite holds water and others become water logged in many cases (but then thats me over watering). I have never found perlite mix resulting in time and time again pulling better or bigger harvests then straight Coco. I have found better yield when running a recycle drip (like an NFT) with straight coco to yield teh best, but it takes more attention.
In my experience adding Perlite really just depends on your grow style and how much you want to water. Many people though have reported "better" results with a mix over straight coco which i find interesting.
The problem is i have run this same experiment many times over the past few years. I LOVE coco lol and it kinda depends on a few factors. BUT i found that some plants really love how the perlite holds water and others become water logged in many cases (but then thats me over watering). I have never found perlite mix resulting in time and time again pulling better or bigger harvests then straight Coco. I have found better yield when running a recycle drip (like an NFT) with straight coco to yield teh best, but it takes more attention.
In my experience adding Perlite really just depends on your grow style and how much you want to water. Many people though have reported "better" results with a mix over straight coco which i find interesting.
Wow, it looks like the winner is going to be coco and perlite mixed.
i use coco/perlite in hempy buckets. straight coco in pots, I've been trying to keep my coco that's mixed with perlite out of my pure coco, i use botanicaire, but now, maybe i'll go ahead and mix it all.
Gonna wait for your final update though.
i use coco/perlite in hempy buckets. straight coco in pots, I've been trying to keep my coco that's mixed with perlite out of my pure coco, i use botanicaire, but now, maybe i'll go ahead and mix it all.
Gonna wait for your final update though.
