12/12 from seed help

If you don't have buds yet then revegging won't be as much of an issue as it could be.

You would need to have a mother plant or two because you would need many cuts.

Then just SOG as necessary.

I would do a perpetual in your scenario.

Well if you change the light schedule back it should be more than fine as I said back on page one of your thread the plant will veg for a little while regardless of light schedule so if you see no pistols as of yet then your plant has yet to reach maturity so now would be the time to flip the lights

DoDad said:

I started 12/12 from seed a few weeks back.

Are their any pruning/trimming techniques that will increase yield?

Can I take clones even in 12/12?

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you can take clones at anytime, take them from low on the plant during a 12/12 grow as early as possible. unless you are growing super long flowering varieties pruning a 12/12 trip is ill-advised. growing 12/12 from seed does not make a whole lot of sense.

12/12 grows should be a targeted grow based around a known longer flowering clone proven to produce in that type of situation.

TomHill said:

12/12 grows should be a targeted grow based around a known longer flowering clone proven to produce in that type of situation.

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Hi Tom,

With your 1000's of posts I do respect your advice. This is really only my second attempt at a grow and I'm trying to find what works best for me.

My original 12/12 idea was to run several different strains as fast as I could to see if I liked them. I wouldn't want to spend several months and end up with cannabis I didn't like.

It didn't end up that way and I really only ended up with 2 main strains, so my plan changed to running a tent full of both strains as fast as I can get them finished.

As it turned out it wasn't as fast as I thought. Part of that is my fault as I have stalled the growth with over pruning so it's not really representative of what 12/12 could do any damn way.

So not only do I know less than what I did than when I started about how soon I can grow bud at 12/12 from seed, I've slowed my growth overall and put what clones I could have taken into pre flower and slowed my clone growth.

I should have given them a 2 week veg, clone/flip and may have grown flowers faster than my way of 12/12 from seed and I would have better clones to boot.

Now, all I can do is take clones and give them time to reveg so when the plants in my tent do finish I'll plant clones not seeds. It looks like I may have months not weeks. I still don't have pistils and today is day 31.

If there is an upside of cloning in flower it "might" be, as some have reported that once a cannabis plant has flowered and is then returned to a vegetative state, that the next time the plant flowers the growth is even more explosive than if it had not been reveged.

The one thing that still confuses me is how to grow the most weight.

That last link I posted (no popcorn) the guy LSTed then cut off all but 4 or 5 branches. Other people say grow as many tops as possible in a canopy style.

Some people say to lollipop do a scrog and light from the top and those vertical guys grow every bud from the top of the soil to the top of the tallest cola. Walls of weed.

For somebody like me, all this is pretty confusing when everyone seems to have the correct answer, yet all of them are vastly different.

I don't need to know every way to grow this stuff, just one way that works for me. I'm still finding my way.

One thing I can say based on my limited experience. My last LST really filled my pots with bud sites. Corner to corner, side to side each 4" pot is level and FULL of top producing branches.

4 x 4" pots have produced 5 gallons of bud sites/clones and I have 8 pots. I did some some things wrong in this grow for sure, but there must have been something I did right.

What to do now with all these is really the next question. How do I train them from here?

If I followed the no popcorn guy, I would cut off all those side branches that I have been LSTing trying to make. Other than clones I don't see the advantage of LSTing if you are just going to remove what LST produces. Maybe he just LSTd instead of topping to produce his 4 or 5 tops but in any event if more tops = more bud, why not grow as many tops as you can?

mostly sativas are good for 12/12 good luck boy!

Indica does just fine 12/12 as well

Have had success with topping once. 12/12 is very strain dependent I find. Find the right one and you are laughing. Some are kinda underwhelming though seem to remember kosher kush seemed like it would have done better with longer veg for example.
Auto's are no good 12/12 at all IMHO.

DoDad said:

Hi Tom,

With your 1000's of posts I do respect your advice. This is really only my second attempt at a grow and I'm trying to find what works best for me.

My original 12/12 idea was to run several different strains as fast as I could to see if I liked them. I wouldn't want to spend several months and end up with cannabis I didn't like.

It didn't end up that way and I really only ended up with 2 main strains, so my plan changed to running a tent full of both strains as fast as I can get them finished.

As it turned out it wasn't as fast as I thought. Part of that is my fault as I have stalled the growth with over pruning so it's not really representative of what 12/12 could do any damn way.

So not only do I know less than what I did than when I started about how soon I can grow bud at 12/12 from seed, I've slowed my growth overall and put what clones I could have taken into pre flower and slowed my clone growth.

I should have given them a 2 week veg, clone/flip and may have grown flowers faster than my way of 12/12 from seed and I would have better clones to boot.

Now, all I can do is take clones and give them time to reveg so when the plants in my tent do finish I'll plant clones not seeds. It looks like I may have months not weeks. I still don't have pistils and today is day 31.

If there is an upside of cloning in flower it "might" be, as some have reported that once a cannabis plant has flowered and is then returned to a vegetative state, that the next time the plant flowers the growth is even more explosive than if it had not been reveged.

The one thing that still confuses me is how to grow the most weight.

That last link I posted (no popcorn) the guy LSTed then cut off all but 4 or 5 branches. Other people say grow as many tops as possible in a canopy style.

Some people say to lollipop do a scrog and light from the top and those vertical guys grow every bud from the top of the soil to the top of the tallest cola. Walls of weed.

For somebody like me, all this is pretty confusing when everyone seems to have the correct answer, yet all of them are vastly different.

I don't need to know every way to grow this stuff, just one way that works for me. I'm still finding my way.

One thing I can say based on my limited experience. My last LST really filled my pots with bud sites. Corner to corner, side to side each 4" pot is level and FULL of top producing branches.

4 x 4" pots have produced 5 gallons of bud sites/clones and I have 8 pots. I did some some things wrong in this grow for sure, but there must have been something I did right.

What to do now with all these is really the next question. How do I train them from here?

If I followed the no popcorn guy, I would cut off all those side branches that I have been LSTing trying to make. Other than clones I don't see the advantage of LSTing if you are just going to remove what LST produces. Maybe he just LSTd instead of topping to produce his 4 or 5 tops but in any event if more tops = more bud, why not grow as many tops as you can?

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wow it's a mouthful but carefully worded and i truly appreciate where you are coming from amigo.

first of all it's important to understand that when u are growing 12/12 from seed you are not flowering from the beginning but rather vegging along at 12 hours until she is sexually mature.. you will have stretched growth from said regimen among other things it is really not a yield inducing scenario.

don't ever listen to anybody who uses the term lst they are all clueless in my experience.

there are certain realities we need to understand about cannabis farming a few of them are the longer duration of light the denser the growth this 12/12 crap has plants stretching and reaching and again,,, they are not flowring until they are sexually mature just tossing spaced out nodes that will yield less. it's a good way to go in many cases but not all man..

the 12/12 regimen has a few applications but i think your scenario is not one of them you would do better to build a dense plant (18+ hours) and ride that home..

i don't even know if i have answered a damn thing except don't believe most of these nutters and go go go!

but between me and you? most of these guys have no clue what the hell they are talking about lol..

Well just out of curiosity TomHill could you please explain to me the proper time and place for lst? I'm not trying to sound sarcastic I'm truly intrigued and would like to hear your stance on lst. I have always been told to do it for potentially more yield and also been told that when growing with CFL lights that it helps get the most out of your light due to the lack of penetration cfls have. Like I said I'm intrigued by your statements and would like to know why you aren't shoving lst down peoples throats like everyone else.

lst = low stress training right? that is some lame ass bullshit invented by some idiot that had no fucking clue what he was talking about,,, therefore,, there is no time or place for it in an advanced growers program did i accidentally say something that sounded otherwise? if i did i take it back lol..

the term itself pisses me off lol like some fucker who is convinced fish can;t feel pain made that shit up .

plants react to inputs,, to their environment,, there is no need to relate these actions to feelings human beings encounter or attempt to quantify it and decide on our own what this species conceives as high or low,, it is an arrogant ignorant proposition and only an ignorant human being would come up with it imo.

Well I get what your saying and trust me when I say you have my respect for sure, I just always looked at lst as a plants ability to adapt to its environment for instances if a cannabis plant is growing wildly out in the middle of nowhere not tended to at all and lets say a neighboring plant has encroached upon the cannabis plants space blocking light to the main shoot the plant adapts and diverts auxins( I believe they are called) to form a new shoot that ends up searching out a better position to get the most light it can. So in my mind lst would be in our cases a way of exploiting these auxins ability to adapt to changes and in doing so tricking the plant into creating multiple tops. Now I do want to add I don't dispute the topic of who are we to say what is low stress and what is high stress for a plant and I don't dispute that fish feel pain because I firmly believe they do and I will even go as far to say that low stress training is a poor name for what it is, however I do view lst similarly to growing and training a vine to grow in a particular direction and within a certain area. Granted most people don't train vines but it can be done. Again no disrespect meant I'm just curious and like to try to see things from all angles and pov's. Best wishes and I hope I haven't offended you as that's not my intention and to OP I'm sorry for kinda jacking your thread lol.

So would it be safe to say LST is really only in a situation where height is a factor?

I guess that's what toppings for duhh.

Well from my understanding lst would ensure your plant stays low in my experience topping is just a way of forming two main shoots. I usually top then lst from from there.

I get where you're coming from, Lexort... and I may be setting myself up for a serving of Humble Pie later on, but I'll attempt jazz up what Tom said about *** with a few more verbs and nouns in an attempt to elucidate the completely factual adage that *** sucks a bucket of aborted fetuses.

The plant is smarter than you. It has evolved over millennia to get to the point it is at before you. Trying to force that evolution even further during the the few months it has to share with you on this earth is not the best way to welcome the plant into being, and in a lot of cases is a sure-fire way to create problems in my experience.

The plant, in theory, remains in a fixed position for the duration of it's life in a natural setting (outdoors). However, it's life source rises in the east and sets in the west every day without fail. That "hippie X-Mas tree" shape a plant takes on if left unfettered during vegetative growth is not by accident, but the plants response to the sun's ever-changing position. It grows fairly symmetrical if in full sun because for almost equal amounts of time each day half the plant is in full sun, while the other half isn't. Not to mention the plant's structural integrity is pretty damn sound based on that symmetrical quality.

Top, pinch, train, whatever one plant however you like while simultaneously letting the plant next to it "do it's thing" and merely provide some support in the form of staking or caging. Then, wait for the first big storm of the season to come through or powerful sustained wind gusts for a few days. After it's passed, I promise that without fail the "trained" plant will look worse for wear. Depending on which method you took up in an effort to "help" the plant your trained plant might have only had a branch or two crack... do something silly like lop off the main shoot after the 3rd or 4th node and you may be waking up to find your precious scattered all over the place due to it literally splitting in half because it's center of gravity was almost non-existant. It's at this point that any preconceived notion of an "increased yield" flies out the window.

Those perfectly round spheres in Tom's photos aren't by accident, nor are they the result of ***, FIM'ing, topping, pinching, super-cropping, lollipopping or tootsie rolling. That's what the plant does. The only thing you have to do is provide ample spacing for full-sun exposure during the life of the plant, and give her some kind of support she can grow into. The plant will do the rest of the "hard" work if you'll just get out of the way except to provide food and water. Remember, it's smarter than you.

However, your talking about growing indoors under a fixed source of artificial light. And that's a whole different ball of wax. I have a feeling most of these "yield increasing" methods were developed by people who were too scared to run numbers. And when I say numbers I mean 36 clones flipped after a week or so per 4x4 area of HID lighting. I don't have the hard facts right in front of me, but I bet there's almost zero difference for the most part when comparing lengths of jail terms for the guy that went big with his 4x4 area and the guy that tried to "maximize yield" with 6 plants in his 4x4 area. 1 is the same as 10, and 10 might as well be 100, right?

I think that's what Tom was getting at, anyway.

Ok now I wanna say I get what you are saying bo hasset and I wanna add that I would never suggest that anyone growing outdoors or inside with hids should do let however the OP and myself are growing with CFL lights and as we all know they have poor penetration and I have a small flowering box so side lightning isn't really a option. Now I've let some plants take on their natural shape and I've lst'd some plants in the very same box, so from my experience I notice that when in their natural shape the very bottom buds are nothing more then a few calyx's and a few pistils' now with lst I don't end up with barely any wimpy buds. If either of you can give me a valid reason why not to bother with lst when growing with CFL lights I would be willing to give it up. I'm not trying to sound close minded here but it's just hard for me to go against results I've seen first hand. Also I don't think it increases yields but allows for better light penetration when working with CFL lights.

Also I for sure don't claim to be smarter then any plant. They are full of wisdom if your willing to listen