best/safest regular PH Down?

Grenouille · Feb 15, 2007

What are the differences between phosphoric and nitric acid are when it comes to how they affect your plant/nutrient solution?

any info on the topic would be appreciated.

:joint:

Grenouille · Feb 15, 2007

just tested the ph of my tapwater, it's about 8.5 :badday:

this would go even higher with nutes added, correct? :badday:

Hold Your Fire · Feb 15, 2007

I'm using Earth Juice all natural ph down. I hand water and use grow bags filled w/ soilless mix. So far the product is working great and I'm 2 weeks from harvest!
p.s. a very small amount goes a long way.

Hold Your Fire · Feb 15, 2007

My water also tested above 8.0. The E.J. crystals took care of this and I have plenty left over for later use.

Grenouille · Feb 15, 2007

that utilizes citric acid i see,
just had a look around - seems a bit tricky to get here in the uk.

Grenouille · Feb 15, 2007

just saw this in another thread:

Caligrown said:
This is from the Canna research department in a document called:

"Everything you ever wanted to know about CANNA COCO"

Damage to crop caused by hard water
Normally, PK13/14 and CANNA COCO nutrients can be
used together. However, in case the tap water is very
hard, this combination can cause problems. Very hard
water contains high amounts of calcium and the
amount of acid necessary to set the pH is relatively high.
This is due to a high bicarbonate level in the water.
When PK 13/14 is used under such circumstances the risk
of precipitation in the water tank increases, and this can
cause blocked drippers. If you use very hard water for
irrigation it is recommended to use pH – grow (nitric
acid) instead of pH – Bloom (Phosphoric acid) to set the
pH.

Cali-

so i should go for nitric?

if someone could still clarify the differences between the types it would be great though.

Grenouille · Feb 15, 2007

why does phosphoric seem to be favoured during bloom-phase, and nitric during veg? :chin:

Grenouille · Feb 15, 2007

i bought some silicon as well, just read the back, 'is highly alkaline' :badday:

is adding all of this ph down going to harm the plants.

Mo Budz · Feb 15, 2007

Nitric Acid is favored in veg because it contains some nitrogen, but it is alot nastier then phospheric acid, which can still mess you up if you spill on your self or decide to drink the stuff. Phospheric acid has phosphorous in it which is good for bloom. Many people just use the phospheric acid for the whole grow and bloom with no problems.

Grenouille · Feb 15, 2007

^but surely not a significant amount of nitrogen. it wouldn't stunt blooming for example, would it?

TrichomusCaesar · Feb 15, 2007

I just use a top layer of peat moss when the soil is too alkaline. You get the acidity and some organic matter in your soil mix. Works pretty well. I offered this advice to another IC member with your problem just a couple days ago and it worked for that member as well.

Grenouille · Feb 15, 2007

this will be in coco

TrichomusCaesar · Feb 15, 2007

I think it would work for coco as well. I dont see why not. But I'm not a coco pro.

SilverSurfer_OG · Feb 15, 2007

What do you guys think about using cider vinegar?... apart from the smell

Sleepy · Feb 15, 2007

most of the nutes and additives lower my pH...

i would advise against the use of vinegar in the garden.

Lofty · Feb 15, 2007

cidar vinegar its not as nice on chips as malt vinegar HeHe :biglaugh:

peace silver!

as far as ph down and the amount yr guna use to get water down from 8 is not guna make any dif in yr garden, its such a tiny amount in water, its nutes and additives that need a significant amount of ph down.

cgnosis · Feb 15, 2007

Sleepy said:
most of the nutes and additives lower my pH...

i would advise against the use of vinegar in the garden.

Some growers say vinegar its the best natural source of ph down. Could you explain why u wouldn't use it?

Sleepy · Feb 15, 2007

i guess it depends on the plant being treated...

i guess it depends on the plant being treated...

azaleas & other acid loving plants would benefit, but its not for me.

i found some interesting info with google( i have never used vinegar in this way):
"Vinegar Update
Gardening by the Yard : Episode GBY-808 -- More Projects »

One way to cure a garden of reckless weeds is spray them with white or apple cider vinegar. "I know that using this stuff as an herbicide isn’t exactly new," says master gardener Paul James, "but I've been using it for years. Vinegar controls many weeds, especially tender young annual weeds."

Figure A

Figure B
To apply, pour the vinegar straight into a spray bottle, and thoroughly mist the weed to be removed (figure A). In about one week, especially during 90-degree weather, the weed dries up (figure B). (In cooler climates such as the Pacific Northwest, however, vinegar doesn't work nearly as well.) Vinegar strips the waxy protective coating from the plant surfaces, causing the leaves to dry out and often desiccating the plant all the way down to the roots. James recommends spraying the weeds two to three times a day at 5- to 10-day intervals.

This all-natural weed treatment is not without some problems, though. One thing to remember about vinegar is that it's non-selective, meaning that it destroys anything green, whether weeds or a prized plant. Take extra care when using it, and avoid vinegar treatments altogether on windy days.

Another problem is that regular store-bought vinegar, which contains only 5 percent vinegar or acetic acid, isn't strong enough to deal with persistent problem weeds. However, you can now buy vinegar that is especially developed for use as an herbicide, and it contains 20 percent acetic acid, four times stronger than the kitchen variety. Garden vinegar does a much better job of eliminating tough, nasty weeds.

Also, too much vinegar can have an adverse affect on the soil's pH level. "After all, vinegar is pretty acidic," explains James, "so I suggest you use it only to spot treat weedy areas in flower beds rather than in or on the lawn, and don't over-do it when spraying." Treating a large area of lawn soaks the soil with too much vinegar, resulting in an overall decrease of the pH level. "Actually, some people do douse the soil with this stuff to lower the pH to the point where few if any plants will grow," says James, "but I don’t recommend it for that use because it renders the soil inhospitable to plants for at least six months." "
:chin:

its not for me, if it works for you, use it.

NPK · Feb 15, 2007

True enough Sleepy, but pouring undiluted pH Down on your plants would kill 'em, too. Is there any specific reason why vinegar would be an unsafe substitute?

Sleepy · Feb 15, 2007

not as stable long term solution for pH adjusting...

i did not intend to start an argument, sorry...

acetic acid will lower pH short term, but it's not for me.

as i searched the site i found numerous threads covering this, and most of them get pretty heated...

i will keep my opinions to myself in the future...

Grenouille, search google for "organic pH adjusters"...

my apologies if i have misled any of you...if vinegar works for you, use it.

peace.

best/safest regular PH Down?

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