Phylos Galaxy - Landrace discussion

Shipping via APO worked out real well, it was a regular and dependable.
I always felt like top shelf Columbian was about as good as it gets with respect to quality.
Can recall having read that when big pharma originally wanted to occupy the market for cannabis, they obtained the highest quality strains they could get from India.
They then did test plots up and down each coast which in a nutshell, is why and how we have fairly decent cannabis near and around the port areas.

Thule said:

Agreed on the razor. Someone brought a shitload of Thai stick or other South East Asian (Borneo?) genetics to Colombia at some point.

The Colombia 1920's sample could be representative of early Colombian strains. It clusters closest to Colombian red and mangobiche. Maybe the reds were there first? They lack a sample from far eastern India or Manipur, but I bet that would be a closer match to Colombian Red than Kerala or Thai. Just a guess based on the very similar coloration between Mangobiche and Manipuri. Zamal has the same coloration so we know the purples liked to cross oceans..

Enter Thai stick, and we now have Colombian Gold. The cartels moved a shit tonne of Thaistick to America in the 60's and 70's. Being the highest quality strain on the market at the time, maybe some of it made it to Colombia?

Pure speculation of course but the Asian connection seems real.

Click to expand...

Makes good sense

I think it was mostly the British empire. the drug trade (mostly opium) was of major interest to them.
and there where no social stigma to cannabis in Britain in the 1800's.

the building of the Panama Canal also played a large roll in the spread of Cannabis as well.

and that Colombia has the largest Lebanese population outside of Lebanon due to mass migration at the end of the Ottomon empire.

https://www.idmu.co.uk/indian.htm
"...Bengal sent the most information. Asked if a particularly popular type of local ganja was more deleterious than others, they submitted a long report on cultivation, uses and profit margins on all hemp products by Dr Watt, State Reporter on Economic Products. Their local product was popular due to the quality of plants and traditional production skills, rather than sheer strength. A table of samples analysed for "Resinous extracts or Cannabin" ranged from 1.4% (NW Province) to 12% (Madras), mostly about 4% [7]. All of the legal trade was inside India. The state of Bengal had been making an average 1 million rupees per year through the 1860"s in tax on ganja shops and duty at government auctions, about £100,000 - tens of millions in todays money."

12% resin in herb from Madras in 1872 ! Madras is the region that Indian culture spread to SE Asia from .

https://druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/history/first12000/6.htm

"Back in England, thousands of miles away, Parliament's main interest in India was how to extract more money from the country. The people could intoxicate themselves as much as they liked. As long as England profited form their intoxication and the country remained peaceful, Parliament could not have cared less.

England, in fact, was one of the world's main drug suppliers and cannabis was but a minor revenue-generating resource."



https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1931-0846.2014.12038.x
". From 1793 to the 1850s, the British East
India Company happily derived a steady stream of revenues from taxing cannabis,
granting licenses to retailers and wholesalers and caring little about how
much was consumed. Bengal became a major exporter throughout India and
other parts of the Empire. In some provinces, distributors were required to
store their crop in government-owned warehouses. When local supplies ran
low, the Company imported charas from Turkestan."

. In the wake of the 1911 Revolution in China, which
severely curtailed opium exports to that country, the rising price of opium led
large numbers of users to switch to ganja; accordingly, consumption of
imported Indian cannabis soared in the early 20th century soared.
Drugs were important in several colonizers’ attempts to compel local populations
to produce export goods vital to the world economy. Alcohol was common
labor pacifier in tropical plantations. In the 19th century, British authorities
brought 1.5 million “surplus” laborers from India to labor-short islands in the
Caribbean. Indentured Indian workers brought ganja with them to Barbados
and Jamaica after the abolition of slavery there in 1834, and it was tolerated so
long as sugar production did not suffer (Angrosino 2003). Ganja’s use was closely
wrapped up with that of rum, so that the two drugs became intertwined in
the cycle of work, debt, and poverty that characterized latifundial life on the
sugar plantation, an excellent demonstration of colonial biopolitics. “The growing
and trading of ganja seem to have been a thriving cottage industry on the
margins of the estates, where the Indians came to be more explicit about the virtues
of ganja in enhancing their ability to function as plantation laborers” (Angrosino
2003, 105). Indeed, a fully articulated “ganja complex” emerged that
included local growers, paraphernalia, and a justificatory ideology that spread
the crop from Indians to the islands’ black residents; it was later vigorously
adopted by the Rastafarians, for whom it continues to serve as a metaphor for
the Burning Bush of the Bible (Rubin and Comitas 1976; Eyre 1985; Mahabir
1994). As late as 1907, company stores in Jamaica and Trinidad sold marijuana.
Ultimately, however, three factors led to a sustained decline in ganja use and its
replacement by rum: explosive rum production drove its price down to a level
competitive with that of ganja; missionaries decried the “vile weed”; and mounting
official disapproval led to antimarijuana crusades, ostensibly on the grounds
that its use increased crime rates. By 1913 it was declared illegal, although Lambros
Comitas notes that “The Jamaican ganja laws which date back to 1913
appear, in historical retrospect, to have been based on class and racial factors
rather than on objective medical and social evidence” (1975, 131).
By the early 20th century, British diplomats sought to protect the plant from
the determined efforts of countries that wanted to limit the world’s drug supplies.
However, under relentless pressure from the U.S. and League of Nations
to curtail the drug, which had become embroiled in the international politics
of opium, the British government gradually restricted production and sale of
the plant. Political pressure from the temperance movement, which conflated
drugs and alcohol, added fuel to the fire, although cannabis use in Britain
remained rare. In 1916, it forbid the sale to members of the military; in 1925, it
classified cannabis as a poison, and labels on vials carried the word in red letters;"

-High Point: A historical Geography of Cannabis

Does anybody have any ideas of why DJ Shorts varieties are showing up as Hemp on Phylos
??

Water- said:

Does anybody have any ideas of why DJ Shorts varieties are showing up as Hemp on Phylos
??

Click to expand...

As i mentioned on the last page, Phylos seems to be updating/changing the platform abit and many tested samples show no relation to other plants at all, so the site is clearly not work as it should at the moment
..and it has been like this for months already.


This is how most samples look like atm, not all
Madjag's skunk has "no relatives" and you know that isn't right

DJ Short's varieties turn up as 'Hemp' because hemp doesn't mean hemp. They don't know what hemp is. It's just a category.
Phylos made 4 generalized categories for DNA variations. So OG Kush isn't necessarily OG Kush. Skunk isn't skunk. I'd gone over this earlier but it's worth restating.
To me it makes the entire exercise worthless until they fix it.
They also need to come up better then their stupid galaxy. I can't navigate it, can't tell what strains are related to what. When a strain in hemp shoots lines all over the galaxy it doesn't tell me a damn thing. If it's related to those strains why aren't they next to each other?

Water- said:

Does anybody have any ideas of why DJ Shorts varieties are showing up as Hemp on Phylos
??

Click to expand...

IMO DJ short strains show up as hemp because he selected for hollow stems and milder potency. I also believe there is a fair bit of overlap and ambiguity within the hemp and landrace categories. Heirloom Sativas often show hemp in their lineage on phylos. We all know heirloom Sativas were used to make DJ's blueberry ...

GoatCheese said:

As i mentioned on the last page, Phylos seems to be updating/changing the platform abit and many tested samples show no relation to other plants at all, so the site is clearly not work as it should at the moment
..and it has been like this for months already.


This is how most samples look like atm, not all
Madjag's skunk has "no relatives" and you know that isn't right


View Image

Click to expand...

Nah Madjag said his sample may not be Skunk. He said someone sent seeds back to him or something. Probably a pure landrace I would imagine. SamS Skunk#1 has been verified by another sample I believe. It's definitely not related to what was submitted by Madjag.

If they are changing it, does that mean that it was really not accurate before?

Columbo1 said:

Nah Madjag said his sample may not be Skunk. He said someone sent seeds back to him or something. Probably a pure landrace I would imagine. SamS Skunk#1 has been verified by another sample I believe. It's definitely not related to what was submitted by Madjag.

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Hi.
You're missing the point. It's states it supposedly not related to anything sampled by Phylos and there's plenty of similar pages on Phylos = Phylos isn't working as it should at the moment

therevverend said:

DJ Short's varieties turn up as 'Hemp' because hemp doesn't mean hemp. They don't know what hemp is. It's just a category.
Phylos made 4 generalized categories for DNA variations. So OG Kush isn't necessarily OG Kush. Skunk isn't skunk. I'd gone over this earlier but it's worth restating.
To me it makes the entire exercise worthless until they fix it.
They also need to come up better then their stupid galaxy. I can't navigate it, can't tell what strains are related to what. When a strain in hemp shoots lines all over the galaxy it doesn't tell me a damn thing. If it's related to those strains why aren't they next to each other?

Click to expand...

I just thought I was too dumb to understand it lol.
If skunk doesn't mean skunk...What does it mean?

therevverend said:

They also need to come up better then their stupid galaxy. I can't navigate it, can't tell what strains are related to what. When a strain in hemp shoots lines all over the galaxy it doesn't tell me a damn thing. If it's related to those strains why aren't they next to each other?

Click to expand...

The galaxy could be easily fixed and greatly improved simply by adding the feature of turning off all unrelated strains (a toggle button making them disappear) in the galaxy view. As it is there is so much info in such a small space that it is virtually impossible to use. I'm not sure why they are not doing that.

And as great as a galaxy view looks, there is something to be said for also offering a simple 'family tree' view. The bottom line is that the information needs to be accessible, and it just isn't in its current form.

frostqueen said:

The galaxy could be easily fixed and greatly improved simply by adding the feature of turning off all unrelated strains (a toggle button making them disappear) in the galaxy view. As it is there is so much info in such a small space that it is virtually impossible to use. I'm not sure why they are not doing that.

And as great as a galaxy view looks, there is something to be said for also offering a simple 'family tree' view. The bottom line is that the information needs to be accessible, and it just isn't in its current form.

Click to expand...

Yes! That idea is probably worth money. Applying filters and database queries, with the visual result displayed.

Columbo1 said:

IMO DJ short strains show up as hemp because he selected for hollow stems and milder potency. I also believe there is a fair bit of overlap and ambiguity within the hemp and landrace categories. Heirloom Sativas often show hemp in their lineage on phylos. We all know heirloom Sativas were used to make DJ's blueberry ...

Click to expand...

Right. Honestly i think the hollow stems probably allow the plant to flush much more effectively so that the plant doesnt have growth hormones and whatnot in the smoke to make you feel paranoid, The pith in the center of the stem acts like a sponge.





I'm not sure what causes this in my weed i have the sense that its pheromones or something when the plant is being stressed to produce. I know that cannabinoids react with the adrenal receptors in the brain but i'm not really sure of the cause of paranoia, it acts like shortness of breath.


Curing probably makes a lot of difference in the dissipation of negative chemicals but still, that pungent aroma of hybrids from the dispensary make me feel nausea, its like you can smell and taste heavy growth hormones still in the bud!! Resin extraction doesn't separate the thc from the other chemicals. This is one reason that i'm exploring landraces, I think that the soil that they've been growing in has not been typically hot n heavy so the plant may regulate itself more nominally without pumping out pheromones/growth hormones by the ton, they've not been trained to do that.


Its like factory cattle breeding, hybrids tend to be bred to produce bulk hormones to produce bulk flowers from heavy mediums.

Zitz said:

I just thought I was too dumb to understand it lol.
If skunk doesn't mean skunk...What does it mean?

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as I understand it, I think they just looked at their data, and looked if there were any groups appearing of more closely related samples, then they found such groups and attached a lable to it that seemed somewhat logical based on the samples in those groups.

the skunkgroup probably looks similar to a sample labled skunk, or a bunch of samples with skunk in the name were all within that group.
so anything in that skunk group would be likely to be related to skunk, but it could be it just has similarities with one or more of skunk's ancestors, doesn't have to be a cross with skunk itself.

similar with hemp, they probably found a bunch of markers that were often present in samples labled hemp, so they named the group around them hemp. it could point to some relations between the ancestors of hempcultivars and strains showing a large % of 'hemp' in the galaxy. but doesn't have to mean current hempcultivars were crossed into those weedstrains, maybe they just share a dual-purpose landrace from the same region as ancestor.

I was really interested in 2 strains that hit "the galaxy" relatively recently.

There is a pretty cool story behind "Jamaican Ganja" (as it's listed in the Galaxy, or "Original Ganja" as it is listed in this video by Phylos youtube.com/watch?v=FCkpeDg6CJs )

The other is "Proprietary #1" submitted by DNA genetics -which is apparently the most rare genetic type to be entered to date. It looks like it is most closely related to the piff haze family

Another thing everyone should realize. When Skunk #1 comes up 'no relatives' that doesn't mean it isn't related to anything else in the galaxy.

We know that Skunk #1 is related to half the world's ganja. Either through it's parents, Thai, Afghan, etc. Or it's descendants. It means there aren't any clones or close relatives in the galaxy of that particular seed. There aren't parents or children.

I'm guessing when they say distant relatives it may mean cousins, aunts, uncles, and the rest. It'd be a good question for Sam the Skunkman or another person related to Phylos to see how 'distant' distant relatives are. I'm guessing once you get 4 or 5 generations removed it doesn't count as relatives.

It'd be very easy for a Skunk #1 seed to turn up unrelated this way. Say, over 20 years the Skunk #1 plants were crossed with each other 4 or 5 times. They'd come up unrelated to any other Skunk. Not to mention the possibility of hybridization or mislabels.

It also won't necessarily qualify in the 'skunk' category. I've stated this before but Skunk is an arbitrary category it doesn't mean the plants will smell like Skunk or are related to Skunk #1. It's just a grouping of DNA phylos found convenient to label Skunk.

I just looked up a sample of Skunk #1 while the majority of DNA ranks as Skunk there's generous amounts of Landrace, CBD, and OG Kush. We know that the category 'Landrace' is meaningless, most plants cannabis plants contain Landrace DNA. A Landrace could be from anywhere in the world. There's skunky Indica Landraces in Afghanistan, Mexican tropical Landraces, hemp Landraces.

The categories are meaningless except that they group 'like' strains.

The Galaxy is a mess I should write a letter to them bitching about it. I'd love to see it cleaned up into a format that's easy to look at. I hate the very concept of a galaxy, a bunch of spider webs with colors all over the place. At this point it's nearly impossible to use.

The idea posted above about having the option of eliminating all unrelated strains is a good one and would be a step in the right direction. If strains are related why are they scattered all over the damn universe? Why aren't they next to each other?

I wouldn't quote the Phylos Galaxy as evidence of anything even though it's tempting to do so. I think it plants more confusion and nonsense in peoples' minds then it explains any relations of plants.

Except when it identifies identical clones labeled as different strains or direct descendants. The chaotic nonsensical nature of the Galaxy casts a shadow over their research they really need to fix it.

therevverend said:

Another thing everyone should realize. When Skunk #1 comes up 'no relatives' that doesn't mean it isn't related to anything else in the galaxy.

We know that Skunk #1 is related to half the world's ganja. Either through it's parents, Thai, Afghan, etc. Or it's descendants. It means there aren't any clones or close relatives in the galaxy of that particular seed. There aren't parents or children.

I'm guessing when they say distant relatives it may mean cousins, aunts, uncles, and the rest. It'd be a good question for Sam the Skunkman or another person related to Phylos to see how 'distant' distant relatives are. I'm guessing once you get 4 or 5 generations removed it doesn't count as relatives.

Click to expand...

Hi.
I don't agree. As i have writen many times, phylos doesn't seem to be updating the table on the "genotype reports" of many samples =Phylos is not connecting to other samples as it's supposed to and as it did earlier.


Before they started updating the platform months ago samples showed connections to other plants, but now even some of those old samples show pretty much show a blank table, just like the Madjag's Skunk sample i posted awhile ago.

It's not because the sample would be very rare, it's because they changed the webpage platform and haven't got it working the right way. Trust me, i used to visit Phylos quite often before they changed the platform and i assure you many genotype reports that showed relatives back then aren't showing them now ...many Colombians, Mexicans Skunk samples etc. showed relatives on hte genotype report table on the old plantform, but aren't showing them now in many cases
..it's getting better and they are seem to be working on it, but it's taking quite long.

therevverend said:

The Galaxy is a mess I should write a letter to them bitching about it. I'd love to see it cleaned up into a format that's easy to look at. I hate the very concept of a galaxy, a bunch of spider webs with colors all over the place. At this point it's nearly impossible to use.

The idea posted above about having the option of eliminating all unrelated strains is a good one and would be a step in the right direction. If strains are related why are they scattered all over the damn universe? Why aren't they next to each other?

Click to expand...

I first suggested this change to them directly about 2 years ago, and then again about a year ago. I have quite a few samples on there. The galaxy was much easier to navigate back then, but being able to hide all unrelated strains in the galaxy still seemed like a no-brainer, even back then.

Now it has become a complete mess, and still no option to hide unrelated strains. I don't understand why, exactly; I'm not a programmer, but it can't be that hard to do. What am I missing? They are making changes, so maybe it will be one of them.

The Galaxy itself isn't necessarily a bad idea, IMO. It's just being poorly executed for now, with no real regard to user friendliness. The 'hide' feature would definitely largely solve this problem.

It's a massive amount of data, and I still think that overall it is a fantastic research project with invaluable historical data. I would spend a lot of time doing research there, but as it is right now I can't effectively parse the data. I hope that changes.

The just want there $295 , 3 different seed s2 phenos of 79 skunk sent in all show as same clone ....
all 3 were different profiles and not clones. lol. ,
it was called skunk to make $ even thow skunk was bred out before it was released ...
Phylos will make you more confused than ever ,

at least medicinal genomics is way more accurate and you can understand it much better
Im not sure why people want DNA test unless your trying to claim ownership or trying to figure out what made what , I complete cannabinoid test and trepene test way way cheaper and just as accurate , its a unique finger print to each strain ....