S1 questions?

It's kind of mind blowing, isn't it? The possibilities.

https://cannabisworld.org/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72109

https://cannabisworld.org/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72109

If I shouldn't have those up, please let me know

GA3

GA3

I applied a solution to my seeds while soaking. I got all female plants, along with some stretching. Did not mind the stetching. One is a DP-Blueberry, the other three are Nirvana-Ice. They are in second week flowe and looking fine.

I made a clone of the Bluebery as well as the Ice plants. The blueberry was tough but the ice is easier. Are these now S1-femed clones?

Avid

How do you know you didn't have female plants from the get in that case?

Likewise with spraying a crop from seed, you don't really know which ones it was required on.

Tex

More

More

Thanks for the links, King.

I plan to germinate some 7 or 8 year old beans soon. I am going to germ some normally and some with GA3 to see if I can measure any differences. Two groups of 25 seeds should be a decent test.

TK, I don't know. But 100% female rate from germination and soaking in GA3 solution for 24 hours. Usually I get one male in a germination set. I planted some fantaseeds inddoor mix; without GA3. I will let you know the male rate from these as well. Tring to be scientific. These stetched some , but not nea as mu7ch as the GA3 samples; BB, Ice, G-Kush.

Avid

will this "GA3" solution work for 30 year old beans that still are nice and plump and good looking, but have like no germ rate.

This is a rare strain from the 70's and the seeds are from then. Would love to get some to germ.

i'd have to say no captain.

GA3

GA3

GA3 is used as a germination additive in other plant species, as well as a pesticide.

It is supposed to improve germination rates when used properly. Check out the link posted earlier in the thread.

Avid

Fem seed...

Fem seed...

CBF sent me some of the Strawberry cough he had scored off C'bay... I grew out 3 plants... 2 females and 1 fully male (no fem parts anywhere)... I have heard that these beans were selfed using sensi-soak or sensa soak... and were actually made from S1's so that makes them S2's... I X'd the male with the female and he has popped 20 of these seeds... to further see what happens... by indication they should either be females or hermies... it will be intersting to see what happens... peace.

hey tex, F1......as ya said the SC selfed beans were S2, and i really wonder what the the sib cross would now be called from selfed seed. the plants already display 2 phenos. in the SC S2s, three plants, three different types.did have hemies, one wild one, the other just a few male flowers. reefermans BB sativa fem S1, three plants 3 different types. great plants. Purp kush fem S1, four plants, two types, two real males and two females. sensa soak also used on these. not sure what reeferman uses,

your S1 seeds will not be clones in seed form. far from it. from what ive grown, I believe selfin to be considered "reverse cubin." I believe a selfed plant displays more of its recessive genes in its population. so the presence of the elite clone that was selfed from the seed is about as good as findin that plant in a normal population.

quite a few peeps believe a self to be a cube, i think it could be a tool, like a backX, in a breedin program. anyway its interestin to see what does happen when the plants are worked a bit.

great post, im really interested in this topic, like to see what the breeders here have to say on it. i know rez dont think much of the technique, what about you others guys and gals

CBF

Selfing

Selfing

30 year old beans? I'd be very surprised if they'd sprout even with GA3 but it's worth a try for the fun of it.

Soon I will take 4 identical cuttings and try some experiments with various amounts of GA3. I hope to self one of them because I have two clone-only strains which I want to seed, Lambs Bread and Santa Cruz Big Bud. I'll report the results.

CBF, so you selfed a selfed plant? If anything I see problems arising here. Selfing a selfed plant. Reeferman is using Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulfate. You'll see Lucifer posting in the thread I linked to earlier if you've ever read it. Of all the selfed plants you listed, which of these were selfed with Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulfate? I assume the other two you mentioned were Gibrellic except Reefermans? Did you get hermies from Reefermans?

How can this only be good for breeders?

Take Sour Diesel for example.

Rez has put lots of time and space into this plant. He'll even state it has two pheno's. First cross 50/50. First Bx 75/25. Second Bx 87.5/12.5. And so on.

Now let's take 3C's Sour Diesel he'll be selfing in the next few months. S1= 100% Sour Diesel genetics from the go.

Now let's look at the growers.

I buy a pack of Sour Diesel from Rez. I get about 5 females. 1-2 of them don't display Sour Diesel traits, they show more or some DSD traits.

I buy a pack of 3C's S1 Sour Diesel. I get 10 females, all should display 100% Sour Diesel traits. There aren't any other genetics involved to show here.

I will be doing a side by side comparison of Rez's Sour Diesel vs 3C's S1 Sour Diesel in the future. I'll be selfing my Blue Rhino in the meantime.

Look at at S1 Aeric's Cali-O from 3C's. In particular it's double serrated leaf edge. Selfing is the only method that has gotten this growth charecteristic to carry over I'm aware of. I haven't seen anyone growing anything Cali-O or a hybrid with double serrated leaf edges, prior to it's selfing.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm trying to learn and gather as much info as I can.

CBF, so you selfed a selfed plant? If anything I see problems arising here. Selfing a selfed plant. Reeferman is using Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulfate. You'll see Lucifer posting in the thread I linked to earlier if you've ever read it. Of all the selfed plants you listed, which of these were selfed with Silver Nitrate and Sodium Thiosulfate? I assume the other two you mentioned were Gibrellic except Reefermans? Did you get hermies from Reefermans?

"no hermies in RMs beans as of yet. I recieved the SC in S2 form."


How can this only be good for breeders?

"not just for breeders, but any breedin program"

Take Sour Diesel for example.

Rez has put lots of time and space into this plant. He'll even state it has two pheno's. First cross 50/50. First Bx 75/25. Second Bx 87.5/12.5. And so on.

"yes he has, and what exactly does that have to do with selfin."


Now let's take 3C's Sour Diesel he'll be selfing in the next few months. S1= 100% Sour Diesel genetics from the go.

" in the S1s you will see all the genetics that make up the sourD, if lucky from the get go you may find the sourD clone plant in ten, but I highly doubt it. in what ive grown I have yet to find the clone mother that was selfed. not that ive grown a zillion plants, but when ponyin up 150.00 for seed and in the first four of ten nothin resembles the mother, kinda BS."



Now let's look at the growers.

I buy a pack of Sour Diesel from Rez. I get about 5 females. 1-2 of them don't display Sour Diesel traits, they show more or some DSD traits.

"even in Rezdogs plants as you state there will be variation, so out of those ten seeds what % do you think will be sourD? do you think even one will be 80% sourD. math is great, what happens when the other guy buyin the seed gets the lions share of the sourd beans and you get the DSD beans"

I buy a pack of 3C's S1 Sour Diesel. I get 10 females, all should display 100% Sour Diesel traits. There aren't any other genetics involved to show here.

"they will display 100% sourD traits, amoungst all ten plants. believe me, if you get 3 like plants, same taste, smell, high, and growth to the sourD I would be suprised. im not trashin the strain whatsoever, ive not had it.(here in 8 weeks, as the clone I recieved from a generous grower is takin off)"

I will be doing a side by side comparison of Rez's Sour Diesel vs 3C's S1 Sour Diesel in the future. I'll be selfing my Blue Rhino in the meantime.

Look at at S1 Aeric's Cali-O from 3C's. In particular it's double serrated leaf edge. Selfing is the only method that has gotten this growth charecteristic to carry over I'm aware of. I haven't seen anyone growing anything Cali-O or a hybrid with double serrated leaf edges, prior to it's selfing.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm trying to learn and gather as much info as I can.

"Im learnin to bro, this breedin technique is very interestin to me, so im growin out the sibX from S2s, i wanna see what becomes of um. have other S1 beans to look at from diff breeders. I asked many questions on selfin @OG. never did get much info. so Ill see for myself. what if the sibx is the way to a highly stable strain, what if sensa soak is the way to get a male from a elite clone? many ?s. somethin to do while growin"

CBF

Thanks for your take CBF. It is much appreciated. You're alittle farther than me in the info gathering, as you've actually flowered selfed seeds. I've got some going now and will be doing plenty more in the future.

I want to do my Blue Rhino because I will immediately be able to see the results, growing out 30-40 of the selfed seeds against the original mother. Got a clone veggin out to be the stud right now.

I don't see how sensa soak can give you females from soaking the beans. That's how you all are referring to using it, correct? When reversing with SN & ST the plant is infact still a female. The SN & ST suppress the female hormone so it flowers male. This is why the second application is used. People are finding some females that have been reversed, will revert back to female form without a second application, thus not producing pollen.

Thanks again for your info CBF. I'll add my results as they come about.

King said:

K:Take Sour Diesel for example.

Rez: Let's do that.

k: Rez has put lots of time and space into this plant. He'll even state it has two pheno's. First cross 50/50. First Bx 75/25. Second Bx 87.5/12.5. And so on.

Rez:
Two dominant phenos,yes,indeed.
Sour Diesel Pheno
& DSD Pheno.
So far,so good.

k:Now let's take 3C's Sour Diesel he'll be selfing in the next few months. S1= 100% Sour Diesel genetics from the go.

Rez: 3CZ's been saying they'll self Sour Diesel for about a year.
So far,no go,except for the ae77CO and one other,and those were done long ago.
We don't even know if 3Cz has an authentic Sour Diesel Clone,they've never shown us any pics,so we tend to doubt them.


k: Now let's look at the growers.
I buy a pack of Sour Diesel from Rez. I get about 5 females. 1-2 of them don't display Sour Diesel traits, they show more or some DSD traits.

Rez: Okay.

k: I buy a pack of 3C's S1 Sour Diesel. I get 10 females, all should display 100% Sour Diesel traits. There aren't any other genetics involved to show here.

Rez: That's not the way it works.
The self'd clone had parents....and you'll see their individual traits enter the picture,as well.
Self'd seeds are NOT a 'copy' of the clone,but will likely show some of the traits of both sides,but won't replicate the clone mom....there are phenotypic differences,just like w m/f seeds.....they are not uniform.
Not fucking with the balance of nature gets you better results every time.

k: I will be doing a side by side comparison of Rez's Sour Diesel vs 3C's S1 Sour Diesel in the future.

Rez: I look fwd to your report,but iff you're waiting for 3Cz to start,you may need to pack a lunch (or two!)

k: Look at at S1 Aeric's Cali-O from 3C's. In particular it's double serrated leaf edge. Selfing is the only method that has gotten this growth charecteristic to carry over I'm aware of. I haven't seen anyone growing anything Cali-O or a hybrid with double serrated leaf edges, prior to it's selfing.

Rez: A single trait carried over....and that makes this worthwhile?
Btw,the 77aeCO's double serrated leaf edges popped up in my Orange Apollo a few times,so that's obviously a dom trait in the 77aeCO.

Rez: My advice?
Femmd seeds aren't all they're cracked up to be.
I could have self'd the Sour Diesel Clone LONG ago,and if I thought that it was a VALID mission,I would have done it.
I don't.

Click to expand...

Thanks Rez. I hear you, and your genetics and pics speak for themselves. I've got a few lunches packed, and a few of your hybrids to hold me. 3C's is taking forever, they were supposed to have 5 or 6 strains out by now. And you're correct, they don't show many, if any pics of their moms.

I do want to do some study & testing on the subject. I will not be selling seeds. I'm not built for that, nor do I have the desire. My goal is to make some seeds from the good moms I've found and will find, for a personal collection. Also some interesting hybrids along the way. Even if they aren't an exact copy, I'd be happy with something relatively close. Especially for not having to keep males around.

Rez hit a lot of the stuff pretty well, and he certainly has a wealth more experience than I do, but I wanted to hit on one topic - variation of a selfed plant (two female clones, one is forced male, for instance). Would you expect less variation in traits than if you took a different plant altogether (male or forced male)? Yes. Would you expect genetic homogeniaty (is that even a word?) - depends. Are the traits as they are because the gene and chromosome pairs are identical, or because one is dominant?

I have dark brown eyes. This is a very dominant trait. I can expect all my kids to have brown eyes, and they do. However, their mother has blue eyes, which is a recessive trait.

If I cloned and selfed my daughter, I'd still be breaking up a dominant/recessive gene pair ("B" for brown, "b" for blue). Looking at basic Mendelian genetics, without going into penetrance of the dominant gene, my selfed daughters offspring would be expected to have three with brown eyes - one pure brown like me BB, two like my daughter Bb and Bb, and a blue eyed kid bb in that ratio.

In creating flowers and pollen, there is still splitting of the pairs, and half being put out there in varying combinations, just like with mating with a different genetic partner, so selfing is not like cloning, though one would expect closer matches, overall if the strain has been stabilized to any degree.