Register ICMag Forum Menu Features Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
You are viewing our:
in:
Forums > Marijuana Growing > Growroom Designs & Equipment > Growroom Lighting > Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

Thread Title Search
Click for Next Light Systems - Buy LED lights
Post Reply
Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-27-2007, 03:33 PM #1
MPL
Member

MPL's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 791
MPL will become famous soon enoughMPL will become famous soon enoughMPL will become famous soon enough
Question Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

Some basic info:

Ceramic Metal Halide lamps are currently not available in sizes over 400 watts. Philips is working on it, however there is no ETA.

The CMH lamps 150w and lower should work with digital ballasts.

250w and 400w CMH lamps will NOT work with ANY digital ballast EXCEPT the ones SPECIFICALLY made to fire CMH lamps.

250w and 400w CMH lamps will work with most good quality 250w (ANSI S50) and 400w (ANSI S51) HPS ballasts.

Read the second post in this thread.

This is the spectrum for a CMH bulb:




Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeotrope
Folks, I just recieved a very good and insightful PM in regards to "trouble" some folks are having with these lamps. It is not the lamp (99% of the time). These lamps were designed as a retrofit for industrial lighting fixtures that have a standard 3' ignitor. this means the ignitor was designed to strike/start a HPS (easy to start) up to 3' of wire away from the ignitor. Most of the off of the shelf Hydro shop ballasts are using just that and getting away with it. The less expensive ballasts use cheap components and switchables should be outlawed in my view. As the switchables go, they put a switch in the ignitor circuit. Most of those switches are not 5kv pulse rated or even 600v rated as they should be at a minimum. If you are going to use these bulbs you need to understand that they require (for best reliability) a high quality ballast kit (that will generally provide a high quality ignitor) ie. Advance, Venture, Sylvania, Sola(o.k.) and such with high quality STRANDED 600v rated 16ga - 14ga wire between the ignitor (ballast box) and the socket. You should also use 5kv pulse rated connectors and always ground your hood/reflector (safety). The only time in what is now many years of using these that I have had one fail, it was like 3 or 4yrs old and toasted by over use.

The HPS bulbs are easy to start and the CMH bulbs are harder to start. A weak or old ignitor, core or capacitor can be troublesome. Keep your cords to 6-8' if all the above is in order you should not have trouble. I love them so much I just bought 2 new 400w horiz at my supplier today for a re-lamp. $79.00 US! Can't beat that!!!

Good luck and keep after it.
-----------------------

The original first post follows:



Ok, so I have been reading around and found a few posts about these bulbs. I asked some questions but decided I really didn't want to hijack someone else's thread. Besides, I don't think CMH bulbs have a dedicated thread yet anyway.

So, I have found out that the Philips CMH bulbs have better spectrums than any other HID bulb on the market. I also learned a lot about lumens, PAR etc.

Everything sounds great so far, except I have no idea which ballast to use to fire the 250w and 400w CMH bulbs. Can anyone recommend a specific brand?

Also, the CMH bulbs are supposed to have strong UVB output. Does using an aircooled hood with glass in place reduce/remove this UVB? Is supplemental UV lighting recommended in this case? Would the Hydrotek Silverstar hood work well with the 400w? Any recommendations on a hood for this bulb?

How hot are the CMH bulbs? In a small grow, would the 400w require an aircooled hood to keep it close to the plants? I wanted to use it in a space about 2'x2'x5'H... maybe a bit larger, but not by much.

Sorry for the noob questions, but I'm getting my first grow planned out and just want to be sure I'm getting the most for my money, as I am far from rich.

Thanks!

Last edited by MPL; 04-10-2008 at 04:41 AM..
MPL is offline Quote


4 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-27-2007, 03:58 PM #2
simba
Sleeping Dragon

simba's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere Out There
Posts: 983
simba has a spectacular aura aboutsimba has a spectacular aura aboutsimba has a spectacular aura about
Smile

*Update 02/22/2009:


also has any noticed Great Pops by one of the Major National Garden Wholesalers
they have picked up the Philips CMH line of HPS Retro Whites..
I have to say for them to pick it up as "New" shows it Has True Demand from the Customers up...
Gotta Give it up to Philips CDM Series CMH no companies efforts did it rather CMH has Proven Itself World Wide..




_______

Philips Ceramic Metal Halide HPS-Retro White (CMH) (HPS> <CMH)
250 & 400 Watt Uses HPS Ballast, 20-150 watt on other pages
https://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm
international / world wide shipping
How was CMH Invented.
its the Arc tube of HPS and the Gases of Metal halide Basically.. and it created something totally new..
theres a few reasons it hasn't come to our Market faster but thats great all the bugs are out..

CMH INFO
Philips Ceramic Metal Halide MasterColor is available in
20-400 watts
20-150 watt PCMH's run on Pulsed start Metal Halide Ballasts Only
250-400 are avail in PS MH or HPS retro..
(we chose HPS retro for many reasons for horti)
the 250 and 400 "HPS Retro White Ceramic Metal Halide" are specifically designed for use in HPS Magnetic Core Ballasts..
cmh bulbs will run on a electronic ballast only if that electronic ballasts Specifically says for use with Ceramic Bulb on the actual ballasts..
actually cmh like the low Freq of Mag core ballasts over High Freq Electronic ballasts.
there preferred range is 144-240Hz mag core ballasts is 60hz



Ceramic Metal Halide ( CMH ) competes and Whomps the EYE Hortilux Blue (MT400D/HOR/HTL - BLUE)
comparing the 400 horizontals.. as the vertical 400 and both vertical and horizontal 250 cmh has 20K hours 5k longer than 400 WOW!

.............................. ...EYE-BLUE..........CMH
Ballast....................... .MH-Probe..........HPS (easy conversion for hps users)
Price .........................$90-100............50-70
Life.......................... ..12,000Hrs.........15,000Hrs
Initial Lumens...............29,000... ..........34,800
Mean Lumens ..............22,000.......... ...29,600
Lumen maintenance.......64%......... .......85%

Now when you take the last 4 lines and really look at that your actually getting Twice the lamp for half the cost..

not only do you get more initial and Mean lumen's a longer life and more usable life (IE 85%)
the CMH has higher Red to Blue ratio and thats what we WANT to promote better Flowering

CMH doesn't Throw Heat like MH or HPS especially MH
it just so happens the arc tube (from the HPS side of the lamp) Blocks and absorbs allot of that energy and instead of radiating it it holds it and releases almost all up.. * Ya cmh does still throw some heat but Nothing compared to Equal Wattage in MH or HPS..

The Philips Retro white is also open Fixture Rated the EYE Blue IS NOT>>
you need to follow those ratings on your lamps if it states Enclosed fixture you better use a fixture rated Enclosed.

now you say but neither have High lumen's like my HPS Extreme.
ya thats because if you notice the SPD on the HPS you will see they increse the Lumen rating by creating more Yellow Light But thats not what we want..
in short hps dumps about IMPHO 50% of its Total outputted energy where the plant cant absorb it. where as cmh when you compare its Whole output about 25% about wasted like HPS (that 50% and 25% is not fully wasted just 95% of it.. in that range)


all below information is direct from advancedtechlighting.com Web site










__________________
CMH ~ Ceramic Metal Halide Growers ~ World Wide Social Group

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." Theodor Seuss Geisel

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology." Dr. Carl Sagan

My Dr. has Recommended Medical Marijuana for the Treatment of my Ulcerative Colitis
I’m also prescribed Marinol (4, 5mg capsules Per day) Cost is Aprox $1,200.00 Per Month[/color]

Last edited by simba; 12-12-2009 at 09:59 PM..
simba is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-27-2007, 07:46 PM #3
Rolling_Stoned
Dancing is Forbidden

Rolling_Stoned's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 186
Rolling_Stoned will become famous soon enough
Aye man
Any way you slice it running a 400w in a dresser-size space is gonna be hot! Similar to my first grow, even w/ a 265cfm blower it was a pain to cool down. These CMH's seem to be developing quite a following, perhaps i sould stop bein so cheap and look into em.
__________________
Down at the arsenal they keep the nerve gasses / Guarded day and night by caged white rabbits / Been sitting there for years / I’m gonna have at it / I cut through the fence, run right in and grab it / Go crazy crazy crazy crazy… / Now I got my mustard gas in my pocket / Climb on a tree on a branch and drop it / On a country club full of Saturday golfers / So I can watch them die / Chokin’ shakin’ in convulsions / Go crazy crazy crazy crazy… / Chemical Warfare Chemical Warfare / Chemical Warfare Warfare Warfare...
-Dead Kennedys-

DIY-400w MH Ballast Kit!

Step-by-Step: Ice Hash
Rolling_Stoned is offline Quote


Old 10-27-2007, 11:09 PM #4
Sleestak420
Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 28
Sleestak420 is on a distinguished road
Can this Philips 400w CMH work with a 430w HPS light system?
I'm confused on how ballasts work sorry.
Sleestak420 is offline Quote


Old 10-27-2007, 11:10 PM #5
MPL
Member

MPL's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 791
MPL will become famous soon enoughMPL will become famous soon enoughMPL will become famous soon enough
Ok, I can do a few dry runs without glass and see how it works. In that case I'll make a DIY hood first and see how it goes. The only thing is I gotta figure out how to get a carbon scrubber in there. If it is pulling through an open hood I'm not sure how I'd do it unless I set up an inline scrubber or have the exhaust fan pushing through the scrubber...

I want to go with a 400w specifically because I do intend to go bigger later down the road. I can go up to about a 28"x28" footprint, so I may do that just to get a bit more space to work with for heat purposes. Would a 400w give any better results in this small of a space compared to a 250?

As far as cooling goes, I keep my ambients no higher than 75F, usually around 69F-71F. I noticed a lot of people don't use the AC much but I have always used it and don't see how anyone can live in 85F heat in their home. I think this will help some with the cooling. How much cooler do the CMH bulbs tend to run?

Do the CMH bulbs that advanced tech lighting sells have the UV block?

I still haven't figured out which ballast to get for this bulb. Does anyone have a recommendation? I've done all my research into digital ballasts and really don't know a thing about mag and coil units. I don't want to get a ballast and have it not work properly with the bulb.

Thanks!
MPL is offline Quote


Old 10-27-2007, 11:20 PM #6
pontiac
Pass That S**t!

pontiac's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Under the Northern Lights
Posts: 1,349
pontiac is a jewel in the roughpontiac is a jewel in the roughpontiac is a jewel in the roughpontiac is a jewel in the roughpontiac is a jewel in the roughpontiac is a jewel in the roughpontiac is a jewel in the roughpontiac is a jewel in the rough
Sinse we're all talking about Ceramic Metal Halides, why not brush up on Pulse Start Metal Halides? I heard they output intensities comparable to HPS's...
__________________
▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲► ▼◄▲►▼◄
{150w HPS All-in-One Micro Cab} ~Mazar Kush~ {10 Clone Ebb & Flow SOG Diary} (06/17/09)(ACTIVE)
Stealth Dresser-250w HPS + 40w CFL ~ICE & Chrystal~ DWC LST (04/04/07)(ABORTED)
400w HPS/MH ~AK48~ DWC ScrOG (04/09/06)(First Grow)(HARVESTED)
▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲►▼◄▲► ▼◄▲►▼◄
ICMAG'S OFFICIAL ~DIY~ LINK-O-RAMA

OG refugee

OverGrow GROW FAQ
don't be pissed quit playin! hindsight is always 20/20..........change "if only" to "next time" and you're set homie! - USER NAME
pontiac is offline Quote


Old 10-28-2007, 12:09 AM #7
simba
Sleeping Dragon

simba's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere Out There
Posts: 983
simba has a spectacular aura aboutsimba has a spectacular aura aboutsimba has a spectacular aura about
there are Metal Halide pulse start CMH bulbs but I Dont like them for HOrti USE they require ENCLOSED FIXTURE and people forget that and get HURT>. has happend....

youll find u can go close to ur plants with cmh..
__________________
CMH ~ Ceramic Metal Halide Growers ~ World Wide Social Group

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." Theodor Seuss Geisel

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology." Dr. Carl Sagan

My Dr. has Recommended Medical Marijuana for the Treatment of my Ulcerative Colitis
I’m also prescribed Marinol (4, 5mg capsules Per day) Cost is Aprox $1,200.00 Per Month[/color]
simba is offline Quote


Old 10-28-2007, 03:33 AM #8
stupor
New Member

stupor's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7
stupor is on a distinguished road
I have been confused as to which ballasts to use also after reading previous threads on CMH. The link simba posted says "Optimized for Operation on HPS Ballasts". I have an old, 2005, Icecap electronic 250 metal halide ballast. It can run a HPS too, although maybe not as efficiently. Hopefully it will run a CMH. What do you think?
stupor is offline Quote


Old 10-28-2007, 06:31 AM #9
Guest
Guest

Posts: n/a
You use a HPS ballast that is the correct wattage. Standard core and coil ballast. ANSI S51 for 400w for example or any reguar HPS ballast that you would buy to run a horti. No digital worth chasing at this point as the cmh can't operate on the high frequency of lumatek types. The Icecap is a nice ballast, but not to be used with these bulbs!

I don't like glass as it does cut out some (alot actually) of the UV and far blue photons. I have two 6" cool tubes that I made a long time ago from custom ordered simax brocillite (sp?) glass that I no longer use. Best to control the air temp entering your area and ventilate well. Icecap curently offers a 150w made by Hatch Transformers that is tuned/designed specifically for the cmh 150w bulbs.

Best of luck and don't stress the set up.

Hey Pontiac - We are not concerned about "lumens" or output if the spectrum doesn't stack up. However, I do believe that venture makes a fairly full spectrum e-ballast or natural white bulb or something. Still not the same though from what I can tell.

Last edited by Azeotrope; 10-28-2007 at 06:35 AM.. Reason: forgot to reply to something
Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 10-28-2007, 06:43 AM #10
MPL
Member

MPL's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 791
MPL will become famous soon enoughMPL will become famous soon enoughMPL will become famous soon enough
Would this be alright? Where do I get a housing for it?
MPL is offline Quote


Post Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:55 AM.


Click to buy cannabis seeds at Ace Seeds


This site is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
You must be of legal age to view ICmag and participate here.
All postings are the responsibility of their authors.
Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.