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Old 11-22-2017, 05:30 PM #1
Gray Wolf
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Patent Wars

Note on all URL’s you must remove the “S” from the https for the link to open. ICM program places them there to protect the site.


I just noticed the reader comments on Willamette Week to Elise Herron's The Oil Wars Post, which was about the upcoming patent wars.

It goes to show that success has many authors, while failure is a bastard child.

Suffice to say that some were unkind, especially those from Indra, so I'm thinking it is time to lay the cards on the table regarding who has which patent.

Just goes to show folks can say anything, whether they have supporting data or not.


Allow me to share the story of the Terpenator, and dispel some myths.



First, the whole Terpenator story is at:



https://thealchemistresource.thealch...faultvmlo.html


As you will note, my inspiration came from a 2006 post on ICMag, by FOAF and I had not heard of Tamisium or Indra.


When I did learn of Tamisium, his patent application had been rejected once, and since there was clearly prior art donated to public domain by FOAF, I didn’t see how he could get one, which brings us to the second issue, and that is what all does the patent cover.


Except for the warm fuzzies from publishing an affordable design that, mimicked my own Mk III design without pumps, as public service to low income medical cannabis patients, before any patents were granted, how have I profited??


Secondly, David most definitely didn’t come up with the Terpenator design using pumps, which is a matter of record the direction I took my R&D, so question his patent covering that as well.


That brings us to Indra, whom only recently surfaced after a decade of ignoring the development.


Doing a little searching (thank you Skyhighler), the earliest mention I could find was freejon on 07-15-98 in erowid:


https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=100222

https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=90292

https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=567313

https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=573826

https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=573826

https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=573826

Here is Indra’s 1999 and 2014 post detailing open blasting through a PVC tube:

https://erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info13.shtml

Here is his patent applied for in 2002 and granted in 2006, which uses a solvent mist for extraction, not a solvent liquid.

https://www.google.com/patents/US7002029
Ostensibly somehow unique enough to not be covered in 1931 patent by Emmet Ebenezer. https://google.com/patents/US1802533

Neither patent ostensibly covers the BHO closed loop system that either Tamisium or I have exploited. Nor that of any of the other closed loop systems of various designs that have sprung up since I published mine.

You can often measure a person’s resolve by their actions better than their words and Indra has certainly made patent claims for the whole extraction industry, but has wisely done nothing more than make noise and waves.

The Oils War article at: https://thealchemistresource.thealch...-false_33.html

Last edited by Gray Wolf; 11-25-2017 at 01:20 PM..
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Old 11-22-2017, 05:36 PM #2
Gray Wolf
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PS: I'm not building or selling equipment, only giving away information free.

I neither claim, nor hold any patents on any of it, but will be happy to be expert witness in the patent suits.

My fee is on a sliding scale from free to ghastly expensive at my discretion.

Come on boys, if you are going to post stories in the news paper, belly up to the bar and show what ya got!

Post the details of your patent, and let's discuss them in detail??

Simple logic tells us that you three can't each hold the patent covering all LPG extraction.
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Old 11-22-2017, 05:43 PM #3
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I think I speak for the site as whole when I say thank you. You have been a pillar here for many years, and hopefully many more to come.
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Old 11-22-2017, 07:19 PM #4
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I am new around here and don't really know you but I have been a fan of SkunkPham for a few years (and, now Alchemist) and I have certainly enjoyed your contributions there.

It is a good thing in the world that people like yourself with knowledge and ability seek a path other than the almighty dollar.

It's a pleasure to finally say hello. Keep up the good work. Apparently I'm not the only one who enjoys it. LOL
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Old 11-22-2017, 07:27 PM #5
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good job exposing the shysters and bs artists in the extraction biz.
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:36 PM #6
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Ummm, no takers! Come on Indra, Dave, Drew, an opportunity to shut up all your detractors and naysayers with the facts.

Indra, I recognize I already have posted a link to the patent I believe we are talking about, but since it clearly wasn't designed for or covers liquid BHO extraction, I ASSume you have another one that I missed.

For what its worth, I'm willing to give you full credit for the unsafe and unhealthy practice of shooting lighter butane through a PVC pipe thing that you published again in 2014, long after the hue and cry against using PVC was wide spread knowledge.

David, I only have a copy of the one you submitted back when, which kept getting rejected, so look forward to viewing what actually did finally pass.

Drew, may we see the content of your patent? Probably Dave is also interested in how you got that through.
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An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.

Believing is seeing and ignorance is bliss until it bites you in the ass!

Fervor is the weapon of the impotent. The harder the sell, the poorer the product.

Alas, my ignorance abounds; the more I've learned, the less I know that I know..........

Thou shalt seek and respect the opinions of operators, even unto the third helper, for theirs is a wisdom unknown to technicrats.

Wise men learn more from fools, than fools from wise men.

In my dotage I finally discovered that the secret to putting on pants both legs at a time is sitting down.
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:41 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Wolf View Post
PS: I'm not building or selling equipment, only giving away information free.
Allow me to share the story of the Terpenator, and dispel some myths.

First, the whole Terpenator story is at:

https://thealchemistresource.thealch...faultvmlo.html


As you will note, my inspiration came from a 2006 post on ICMag, by FOAF and I had not heard of Tamisium or Indra.


When I did learn of Tamisium, his patent application had been rejected once, and since there was clearly prior art donated to public domain by FOAF, I didn’t see how he could get one, which brings us to the second issue, and that is what all does the patent cover.


The Oils War article at: https://thealchemistresource.thealch...-false_33.html
the full Terpenator story on your new site is awesome!

thanks again for all you've shared here!

it's a real pity one cannot post the proper link to it here, another reason this website is dying.

there was talk a few weeks ago at a Cali weed biz lecture of a permitted 20 ton closed loop system coming online soon in norcal.

those guys might have been building a water hash facility without your input.
prolly the type of business Indra's waiting for, lol!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Wolf View Post
Ummm, no takers! Come on Indra, Dave, Drew, an opportunity to shut up all your detractors and naysayers with the facts.

Indra, I recognize I already have posted a link to the patent I believe we are talking about, but since it clearly wasn't designed for or covers liquid BHO extraction, I ASSume you have another one that I missed.

For what its worth, I'm willing to give you full credit for the unsafe and unhealthy practice of shooting lighter butane through a PVC pipe thing that you published again in 2014, long after the hue and cry against using PVC was wide spread knowledge.

David, I only have a copy of the one you submitted back when, which kept getting rejected, so look forward to viewing what actually did finally pass.

Drew, may we see the content of your patent? Probably Dave is also interested in how you got that through.
If you post this on IG with proper tags you will have quite a discussion going but ICmag is a ghost town anymore and I doubt those guys would ever notice this thread and engage with it.
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:56 PM #8
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These links are not working for me...
https://thealchemistresource.thealch...faultvmlo.html
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Old 11-24-2017, 02:20 AM #9
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^

1. Click on the link.

2. It will take you to a bad web page.

3. Then click in the address bar and use backspace to remove the s in https and then the link should work.
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Link won't open?
1. Click on the link.
2. Click in the address bar, and use backspace to remove the s in https.
3. Click on the 'reload this page' icon, or hit the return key.

Best to Worst Canned Butane List
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.ph...6&postcount=28

Cannabis Alchemy by D. Gold
https://archive.org/stream/CannabisA...ge/n3/mode/2up

Hash oil techniques and solvents for non BHO hash oil?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=338633

Solvents and polarity
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.ph...&postcount=162

The Truth Machine by James L. Halperin (free read provided by the author)
https://coins.ha.com/information/ttm.s

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Old 11-24-2017, 12:41 PM #10
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Gentlemen, after your vigor attacking me on Willamette Week, I'm sincerely disappointed that you aren't eager to prove your case once and for all.

Occam's Razor suggest that if you could prove your case, you already would have, instead of resorting to personal attack on social media.

Here is your fair and square chance to prove me wrong on both counts.

Not just ICM international audience, but again on the WW whom's editor I will be copying.

One rule change since last time Indra. My own attorney confirms that that when you say something that is damaging and untrue, that is defamation.

May I suggest that you read what you submitted to WW as true and and choose your next words more carefully.
__________________
An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but because people refuse to see it.

Believing is seeing and ignorance is bliss until it bites you in the ass!

Fervor is the weapon of the impotent. The harder the sell, the poorer the product.

Alas, my ignorance abounds; the more I've learned, the less I know that I know..........

Thou shalt seek and respect the opinions of operators, even unto the third helper, for theirs is a wisdom unknown to technicrats.

Wise men learn more from fools, than fools from wise men.

In my dotage I finally discovered that the secret to putting on pants both legs at a time is sitting down.
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