Register ICMag Forum Menu Features Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
You are viewing our:
in:
Forums > Marijuana Growing > Indoor Grows - Hydro > RDWC actual Dissolved Oxygen test results are very impressive

Thread Title Search
Click for great deals at MB Ferts
Post Reply
RDWC actual Dissolved Oxygen test results are very impressive Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-06-2017, 04:39 PM #11
PetFlora
Senior Member

PetFlora's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,138
PetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to behold
Let's all put on our DIY hats

Air pump can be used to pump air though tubing into a vessel filled (and being constantly replenished) with nutrients. Enriched nutes can be 'skimmed/siphoned' off and returned to the rez

This way there is no messy or clogged stones

Thoughts?
__________________
[size=4][color=Blue][b]Hail Hydro https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....=1#post7596424

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=329619

Just because you weren't taught something doesn't mean it's not true, and vice versa
PetFlora is offline Quote


Old 12-06-2017, 06:36 PM #12
Douglas.Curtis
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Back in Colorado! Yaay!
Posts: 1,767
Douglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta9nxs View Post
i use no chiller. my reservoir temps are 79-82f all the time. i don't aerate. i don't use high speed water movement.
You're running roots-out systems now, which do great in higher heat levels.

I am (for flower) exclusively DWC. I have grown without a chiller for 15+ years and my res temps are always 67-68F. (Hang your air pump(s) in 65F air) The only water movement is from the quality airstones, replaced every cycle or two to remove worries of clogging. Cheap insurance.

I'm interested in seeing results which would make me go looking for an O2 machine. I'll step out of the way and let progress take place.
Douglas.Curtis is offline Quote


Old 12-06-2017, 10:51 PM #13
JohnM
Newbie

Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 47
JohnM is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas.Curtis View Post
Oh, I see. Nothing from you, because you live in an illegal state.
Yes, yes, yes, an epiphany, you got it now!
JohnM is offline Quote


Old 12-06-2017, 11:01 PM #14
JohnM
Newbie

Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 47
JohnM is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta9nxs View Post
i use no chiller. my reservoir temps are 79-82f all the time. i don't aerate. i don't use high speed water movement.

but i'm also not in dwc or rwdc anymore so for you guys still going that way try a "speece" cone.

a speece cone injects pure o2 into a stream of moving water. this will temporarily raise the do levels. i say temporarily because o2 depletion begins the moment you stop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEeS_IxxH4M

this just shows one at work. you can see the bubbles disappearing before they reach the bottom of the cone indicating they have been dissolved.

o2 is injected at the top of the cone along with a stream of water that is matched to the o2 injection rate in such a way as to cause all the bubbles to be absorbed before they can reach the bottom. only the supersaturated water leaves the cone, no bubbles.

these things have been built on a massive scale for waste water treatment.
Delta presents very interesting oxygenation technology that’s out of the box so to speak for the average hobby grower, thanks for joining my thread delta. I appreciate your comments.
Cones are a neat way to dissolve O2 gas to supersaturation levels into warm water fast and efficiently. Totally eliminates and all Low DO problems, root suffocation, fungal outbreaks, all gone forever. Cones dissolve much more O2 gas far better than water chillers, water falls, hypothermia and 100 bubbles stones running continuously bubbling tons of ambient air.
Do you have any pics or videos of this thing used in a grow? Doug will want to see pics and videos… that is the proof that cones really increase the DO to high supersaturation levels… just kidding Doug, playing around.
Of course a DO meter is necessary to actually prove the effectiveness of any cone, bubble stone, water fall or air pump.
JohnM is offline Quote


Old 12-06-2017, 11:05 PM #15
JohnM
Newbie

Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 47
JohnM is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas.Curtis View Post
You're running roots-out systems now, which do great in higher heat levels.

I am (for flower) exclusively DWC. I have grown without a chiller for 15+ years and my res temps are always 67-68F. (Hang your air pump(s) in 65F air) The only water movement is from the quality airstones, replaced every cycle or two to remove worries of clogging. Cheap insurance.

I'm interested in seeing results which would make me go looking for an O2 machine. I'll step out of the way and let progress take place.
Doug, what altitude do you grow DWC pot? Just wondering. Thanks
JohnM is offline Quote


Old 12-06-2017, 11:43 PM #16
Douglas.Curtis
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Back in Colorado! Yaay!
Posts: 1,767
Douglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to beholdDouglas.Curtis is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
Doug, what altitude do you grow DWC pot? Just wondering. Thanks
I've had multiple grows at every altitude I've lived at. From 1,300ft to just below the tree line in the Rocky Mountains.
Douglas.Curtis is offline Quote


Old 12-07-2017, 02:18 PM #17
delta9nxs
No Jive Productions

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,347
delta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to beholddelta9nxs is a splendid one to behold
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
Delta presents very interesting oxygenation technology that’s out of the box so to speak for the average hobby grower, thanks for joining my thread delta. I appreciate your comments.
Cones are a neat way to dissolve O2 gas to supersaturation levels into warm water fast and efficiently. Totally eliminates and all Low DO problems, root suffocation, fungal outbreaks, all gone forever. Cones dissolve much more O2 gas far better than water chillers, water falls, hypothermia and 100 bubbles stones running continuously bubbling tons of ambient air.
Do you have any pics or videos of this thing used in a grow? Doug will want to see pics and videos… that is the proof that cones really increase the DO to high supersaturation levels… just kidding Doug, playing around.
Of course a DO meter is necessary to actually prove the effectiveness of any cone, bubble stone, water fall or air pump.
no, i've never used one in a grow and don't know of anyone who has but 10 years ago, when i was running bio-buckets, i was going to build one and actually got to the drawing and parts stage before i changed techniques.

i think it would be quite simple to build a small one out of maybe a small traffic cone with some pvc fittings at the top. maybe a gas injection jet of some kind. i think you establish water flow first then dial in o2 flow rate so that no bubbles are emerging from the bottom of the cone.

adequate plant o2 is adequate o2 and no more is needed nor will excess o2 "turbocharge" a plant.

the trick in dwc is to not let the bio-demand for o2 deplete the do much past what the water would normally hold under whatever ambient conditions you have. so going for "max" dissolved o2 levels is not going to get you any further than adequate do levels.

but no water at any saturation level can compete with ambient air when it comes to plant available o2.

two containers the same size, one filled with water with o2 content dictated by atmosheric partial pressure, and the other filled with ambient air at the same altitude and temperature.

the container of air will have approximately 23,300 times the free o2 molecules.
delta9nxs is offline Quote


Old 12-07-2017, 03:01 PM #18
JohnM
Newbie

Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 47
JohnM is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas.Curtis View Post
I've had multiple grows at every altitude I've lived at. From 1,300ft to just below the tree line in the Rocky Mountains.
The lower partial pressure of O2 in ambient air at altitude, the greater the metabolic compromises for aerobic plants and microbes, general health and growth.
There are many serious metabolic issues caused directly as a result of low O2 problems and suffocation in DWC growing at altitudes. DWC growing at sea level is basically care free and easy provided the grower does not suffocate the crop.
At the tree line in Colorado, 11,000 ft. elevation, you have lost 32% of the available O2 found in ambient air at sea level. Believe it or not, 32% loss of O2 is a substantial compromise when it comes to metabolic efficiency and health.
Ambient air at sea level and at 11,000 ft. elevation in Colorado contains about 21% O2. A candle flame requires an oxygen level of greater than 18.8% or 131.6 mm/hg partial pressure of O2 oxygen at sea level to remain alight. At 1300 ft. elevation, you have lost 4% of the available O2 in ambient air that is available at sea level. Insuring enough O2 to sustain optimal metabolism is not as simple as it appears at a glance upon further investigation.
I believe you will be shocked in the difference in plant health using oxygen enrichment techniques at altitude compared to air pumps and plenty flowing water running through your DWC life support system. But on the other hand, why would anyone change old habits and ideas and live with the old ways.
Actually, a losing 32% of the available O2 at the tree line elevations causes a substantial metabolic compromise. You might want to rethink just how much is your crop really compromised at altitude growing because of that 32% loss of O2.
Better yet, you might want to do the math and see for yourself just how compromised DWC growing can be at various altitudes, go ahead and check it out - Altitude air pressure calculator https://www.altitude.org/air_pressure.php
Let’s apply 2 chemistry gas laws to skin this cat; Boyle’s Law about O2 gas partial pressure at different altitudes and Henry’s Law, the partial pressure of O2 required for saturating and supersaturating O2 into water. O2 does not dissolve easily into water at sea level and dissolved much worse at every foot of elevation.
By the way, if you like to bet on stuff at bars with the local heads and want to make a few easy bucks… you can bet your car keys, wife, kids, girlfriend that altitude directly compromises aerobic plant and microbial metabolism every foot of altitude. Actually that bet no gamble at all, that’s like having a Royal Straight Flush in a 5 card stud poker game. You are going to win that game because it is solidly based in science, elementary Chemistry and Physiology 101.
Manipulating O2 gas concentration and manipulating metabolism with O2 is interesting. You can’t cut iron and steel with ambient air, you got to have pure O2 and acetylene make fire hot enough to do that.
Have you seen healthy pro football players breathing pure O2 on the bench with an O2 mask in Colorado to boost their compromised metabolism --- I believe it’s same deal with the pure O2 at altitude.
JohnM is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 12-07-2017, 03:15 PM #19
PetFlora
Senior Member

PetFlora's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,138
PetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to beholdPetFlora is a splendid one to behold
So, I've been thinking and searching YT for DO generators

Cheapest I've seen that looks like it will work: cost $175, but how to measure the effect?

I googled Dissolved Oxygen Meters finding they range from ~ $150>

https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Eco...K5EJR5TPHQNGAS

Are they worth it? I already have a 4 outlet air pump (used in my baby crib to start seedlings/clones), which may or may not provide more DO than what I am currently using in my grow room rez, a 260 gph lp side flow pump (water exits down low on one side). I have a venturi attached to the top exit, significantly enhancing DO. This set up is on a deep cycle timer 4 minutes on/ 30 minutes off. I do rotate blue ice packs, but quite often rez temp exceeds 74*s. I'm thinking the place to start (for me) is a DO meter, then I can more accurately dial in the pump o/o times. Anybody?

Assuming controlling DO raises final weight by as little as 5 grams/plant, even with one plant over 3 grows pretty much pays for it.

Anybody know of cheaper DO meters?
__________________
[size=4][color=Blue][b]Hail Hydro https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....=1#post7596424

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=329619

Just because you weren't taught something doesn't mean it's not true, and vice versa
PetFlora is offline Quote


Old 12-07-2017, 03:18 PM #20
mushroombrew
Senior Member

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,680
mushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud ofmushroombrew has much to be proud of
So you are basically injecting air richer in O2 into your system?

Have you used venturi valves/injectors? I have injected bottled O2 into a system with great success.

I am all for increasing O2. But I would never run @ 82F. Trust me if you get Fusarium wilt you will never run in the 80's again. "The slaughter" I call it.

Very much strain/pheno dependant. I have one pheno that will not tolerate 76-78F. Roots must have higher O2 demand than others. They start yellowing at 75.

I hit 70's when I have equipment faliure. Othewise it's 62-65 and O2 rich. Even 55F in winter which I love. I run open reservoirs in my cold air mixing room. I use about 3 times as much air as most. As such enrichment is attractive.

What is the O2 partial pressure being generated? Meaning how much higher than atmospheric?
mushroombrew is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.

Post Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:09 AM.


Advertise on ICMag - Click for more info


This site is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
You must be of legal age to view ICmag and participate here.
All postings are the responsibility of their authors.
Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.