smart meters

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Graham Purwatt

• Jun 18, 2011

• #1

hello ic,i've posted a thread about this before but can't seem to get a definitive answer. my local electric company is currently installing smart meters throughout the city.my address is due to have one installed in september of this year and i am worried about what it means for me as a grower.i've heard they can tell what appliances you're using and so on.i've also heard that if you pay your bill on time and are not stealing power that it's nothing to worry about.i do always pay my bill and don't steal power.however,where i live,there are no med laws,so i'm not legal.also,the electric company,garbage company and cable company here all actively work with the sheriff's dept to identify grow ops.they train all their employees in ways to spot them through a program the sheriff's office provides and recieve bonuses when they help spot one,this is public knowledge and has been reported in the local paper and on the sheriff's office website.so that leads me to believe that smart meters are the end of my growing once i get one. can anyone tell why i have nothing to worry about or what steps i can take that this will not affect me besides quitting growing? thank you for any help,gp

 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer

ICMag Donor

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #2

I would say depends on how large your grow is. I had a smart meter at the old house. I was only using 1 600 never had a problem.

 

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Graham Purwatt

• Jun 18, 2011

• #3

i'll only be using a 1k and then something smaller for veg,probably a 250

 

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Diamonddss

• Jun 18, 2011

• #4

stay 1k or under you will be ok. Run 5 1k lights and that stands out.

 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #5

IMO, it's the timer that gives growers away. My neighbors have heated pools, jacuzzis etc. Either one of these can easily double power consumption. But it's the timer that makes my HID come on and go off at the same time. The neighbor has the same lamp on a sensor for security. The sensor isn't static like the timer is.

You've probably got too many people to go after higher than usual consumption. Not so sure about unusually timed events.

 

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Graham Purwatt

• Jun 18, 2011

• #6

so staggering my timer would help you think? maybe going 11/13 lights on/off? that would put them on and off at different times of the day i guess.i was wondering if i kept it on 24/7 and just moved them into a dark area for 12 hours at a time if that would be of any benefit,that way the 1k runs around the clock

 

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beanpopper33

New member

• Jun 18, 2011

• #7

IMO the smart meters eventually are going to make growing indoors extremely difficult, because they will be able to detect accurately when and what things are on. Right now it's easier though I'm talking 5 years or more down the road. If you are worried about it though one thing you can do is get another device that draws equal amount of power and turn it on and off at random times. Might help camo your usage a bit.

You can also if you have multiple lights have some of them go off for short periods so that you're not running straight consistent wattage for consistent periods every day, and to your plants it will be as natural as clouds occasionally blocking some sun rays.

 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #8

my timers are set to come on in the morning mirroring awakening times for the school kids and then again when school gets out (two tents)...like the stove firing up for breakfast and the tele coming on for cartoons.

this only works during the school year and cooler temps, so some adjustments are made during summer break.

goodness sakes.

 

megayields

Grower of Connoisseur herb's.

ICMag Donor

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #9

Diamonddss said:

stay 1k or under you will be ok. Run 5 1k lights and that stands out.

Click to expand...

I run 3200 kw no problem, but I live in Santa Cruz....no one cares.

 

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Graham Purwatt

• Jun 18, 2011

• #10

i can totally imagine my electric company working with law enforcement to bust anyone growing here.does anyone understand how these meters work? any electricians or power company employees possibly?

 

stonedar

Macro-aggressor

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #11

flip flop a 400w or a 600w then you are drawing 24hr power

seems to be what alot of peeps do

 

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Graham Purwatt

• Jun 18, 2011

• #12

heres a quote that scares me

GELLERMAN: So it can tell whether I'm toasting a bagel or getting a back massage?
DORAN: Well, no. But certain appliances definitely have certain energy signatures. So it could tell if you were using a microwave, which has a certain kind of signature. It could tell if you're using an oven, which has another kind of signature.""

 

Sour Deez

Member

• Jun 18, 2011

• #13

Wow that is kinda scary. Hopefully these smart meters dont come around my way. So they will know you are using high powered lights by their signature?

If it was me, I would be worried trying to run anything over 1k. 1k watt light wont have anyone looking at your power usage IMO.

I believe 1k watt light draws around the same power as a big screen tv, my tv is on 20 hours a day.

 

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Graham Purwatt

• Jun 18, 2011

• #14

well the 1k coupled with a steady 12/12 on/off schedule is my concern, also the electrical signature of the ballast. where i live,the city owns the electric company and i know for a fact that they work closely with our overzealous sheriff's dept.these guys will bust your ass for 1 plant, and claim it was $250,000 street valued grow op.there are a lot of hispanics around here getting busted with large grows that steal power by tapping into the line before the meter and the general consensus is that the new meters will stop all of that,but what about us little guys,1k and under? these meters seem to be able to do just about anything and i'm sure the law won't need a warrant to look at your usage here

 

Norkali

Active member

• Jun 18, 2011

• #15

Graham Purwatt said:

i can totally imagine my electric company working with law enforcement to bust anyone growing here.does anyone understand how these meters work? any electricians or power company employees possibly?

Click to expand...

I'm not an electrician nor an employee, but I have seen these meters in action. They are digital, so they keep a highly accurate log of what turns on, how much power is consumed, and when things turn off. Yes, don't get it twisted - growing sticks out like a sore damn thumb if you're running the typical lighting schedules, and it's not even the schedules - it's the patterns that you unknowingly create. The same thing coming on and turning off, everyday, at the same time, it highly noticeable at an immediate glance of the graphs that are available for your viewing pleasure online - and that shit is highly detailed: everything from the weather at the time, (heating v. cooling expectations - they know that you 'shouldn't' be running A/C on a 50°F day...) to hourly usage, past usage patterns, predicted usage, you name it. I can only imagine that there are even more detailed and intrusive options/menus available to the company employees (and in turn, LEO) than what they allow you to see online.

They are a huge security threat to all indoor growers who are 'on the grid' with a power company. Flip flops, as mentioned, are a good defense measure, but you might still need to explain what is drawing 'X' amount of watts 24/7 - and that brings up another problem - it's obvious if it's a 400/600/1000w appliance - what else draws those specific wattages constantly? The sporadic on/off schemes would definitely help - but how long can we realistically be expected to do that before either A) becoming complacent and stop, or B) Realize how much energy ($$) we are wasting and stop?

Best advice is to keep it small like others have said - and even at that, you're still rolling the dice. That's some fucked up shit too about that tip program, because the power of greed (See: $$$$$) is a motherfucker - and I think we all know how easy it is to completely disregard somebody who you've never met or think you will.....Good luck.

BTW - From the politics, it sounds like you're in the TX area - good luck.....

 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #16

I've read lots of threads here. The general consensus in a situation like power consumption is that leo has to have cause. I'm no source but basically leo requests a warrant to get power info, based on cause.

Sheriffs' powers are different, they have different legal maneuvers than cops. Kind of like cop and DA rolled into redneck. As far as establishing cause to get a warrant, some magistrates are not unlike judges and might be able to sign probable-cause warrants.

Your clerk of court might tell you whether your county magistrates have that power. It makes a difference because magistrates most likely work inside the sheriff's office. A court judge is more autonomous and wouldn't appreciate the sheriff twisting his arm.

 

Sam the Caveman

Good'n Greasy

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #17

I should also note there are different kinds of smart meters, from what I understand.

Depending on how much $$$ the power company has to spend or if they think it is in their profitable interest, they may get a basic one that has a digital reading on it for more accurate electricity reading and allows remote readings from a vehicle passing by. I personally think this is the kind most electricity companies will choose to get. Or they can get the fancy ones that tell them electricity signiatures of every appliance.

Why would they spend more money to know exactly what appliances a residence uses 24/7? How would they profit from knowing that info?

Electric companies are for profit, if it won't help them make more money, they are not going to spend the money on it.

That's what I think anyways. I've got a digital read out on my meter.

 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #18

Sam the Caveman said:

Why would they spend more money to know exactly what appliances a residence uses 24/7? How would they profit from knowing that info?

Electric companies are for profit, if it won't help them make more money, they are not going to spend the money on it.

That's what I think anyways. I've got a digital read out on my meter.

Click to expand...

Off-peak rates might encourage lower peak use and decrease brown outs.

I agree though, hardware has to return on their $$ investment before they'll buy the stuff.

In the future, we'll have energy consultants.

power company to customer - Mr Jones, shows here you'd save money on your power bill by drying your clothes at night or early am. And as far as this giant spike... well that's 24/7 Mr Jones... what could that possibly be?

 

SOTF420

Humble Human, Freedom Fighter, Cannabis Lover, Bre

ICMag Donor

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #19

An easy solution is autoflowering strains under 24/7 lighting and making the switch over to LED which uses far less energy and most are of a more abnormal wattage like my favorite the Lumigrow 330 watt ES light that very easily replaces a 400 to 600 watt HID with far less heat being generated as well as no easily detected IR energy that heats up the room and can be detected with FLIR if they are looking. The lack of high heat generating HID also can signifigantly cut down on your cooling cost.

You can also as some others have mentioned run a flip flop but this requires some extra equipment and two flowering spaces so it is not feasible for everyone out there. There are certainly some quality autoflowering strains available today from several breeders and this negates the need to use a 12/12 lighting cycle which really is the big giveaway that someone if flowering Cannabis plants. You may want to look into a regulated power supply that will provide a buffer zone between you and your electrical grid as to further mask any identifying digital signatures your lights may provide to the electric company. Not all appliances communicate with the smart meter and identify themselves but they still have a unique signature such as the well known start up voltage spike that an HID uses to ignite the lamp and this is extremely easy for LEO to identify on a monitored house with a smart meter. Some houses use HID for security lighting though and people also use them in large reptile cages or for growing indoor vegetable so remember that lights are not illegal to use.

There are also many people refusing to have smart meters put on their residence because of health and privacy concerns and I have heard of people refusing them and being able to opt out here in Cali, I believe there were some decisions made in court that say's they have to give people the option to not participate in many counties. You may want to explore this option if it exists where you live. Keep it grapefruity, be safe out there!

 

gaiusmarius

me

Veteran

• Jun 18, 2011

• #20

well maybe they are counting on all the rewards money they will get when they can identify growers and how many of what type of lights they are using.