Ph Question - Tap water is 8.9 -Clackimus Coots Organic Soil

HazePhase · Mar 29, 2017

Hello everyone,
I had a quick question and I was hoping to get some help from some experienced individuals.

I was told with my soil I don't need to keep adjusting my PH.
(Clackimus Coots Organic Soil but with added dolomite lime)

I was adjusting it down with Lemon juice to 6.5 but I just watered in my Coots Organic soil with dolomite lime and my water was 8.9 - 9.1 PH tap water.
Is that going to be an issue?
Would I be better lowering the PH with something other than organic lemon juice?
Any other tips or tricks?

On week two since breaking through ground.
Thanks Everyone

growingcrazy · Mar 30, 2017

What is the ph of your runoff?

As much as you hear about not adjusting your PH, it really should be done. Take as many variables out of your system as you can.

I would recommend citric acid for lowering ph. Also, shoot for 6.2. The PH is just going to rise in your medium from the time you water.

rykus · Mar 30, 2017

100 -200 ml Alaska fish or earth juice grow/bloom 'll put ya down in the zone and get the biology going... as long as your not already too high in the feed dep.

yesum · Apr 1, 2017

I use to lower mine with lemon juice too. I think my tap water was about 8.5. Lowered the ph to about 6 and still had problems. I now use distilled water from the supermarket. Might be overkill but I have no more ph problems.

Granger2 · Apr 2, 2017

I believe CC recommends using RO water with his mixes.

Pwyll · Apr 9, 2017

Check the ppm/tds. If ppm is low you can ignore ph. If ppm is high you have a problem whatever the ph.

HazePhase · Apr 10, 2017

Pwyll said:
Check the ppm/tds. If ppm is low you can ignore ph. If ppm is high you have a problem whatever the ph.

hmm I guess I need another meter

leadsled · Apr 11, 2017

Best bet is to get a test of the water and then determine if there an excess. If the alkalinity is low then you will be fine.
Can drop the ph with citric acid and stay organic.

For example:
If there is a excess of alkalinity from bicarbonate in the water then is best to drop the ph with an acid to help remove the excess bicarbonate.

Here is a example of a water test and water with high ph and alkalinity.

Via water test:
PH is 7.7
70 ppm calcium, 11ppm magnesium, 3ppm potassium, 24 ppm of sodium and 11 ppm of sulfate, 124ppm bicarbonate.

Let say you irrigate weekly, 1.5 inches per week. Over the course of 16 weeks. That is 24 inches. two acre feet of water.
70 pounds of calcium, 11 lbs of magnesium, 3 pounds of potassium, 24 lbs of sodium, 11 lbs of sulfur and 124 lbs of bicarbonate will be supplied over the course of 16 weeks.

Just to give an example of how elements can buildup in the soil.

By reducing the ph down to 6.4 the bicarbonate will be reduced to 67 ppm.

The bicarbonate can grab free cal,mg,k in the soil and form more bicarbonate which can cause more issues with nutrient availability and ph.

Hope that helps.
More info:
http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/sup...to_interpreting_irrigation_water_analysis.pdf
https://ag.umass.edu/greenhouse-floriculture/fact-sheets/water-quality-ph-alkalinity

Pwyll · Apr 11, 2017

Lowering ph reduces ppm?

Space Case · Apr 11, 2017

I would get the pH low with citric and fulvic acid. Coots mix with lime is no good for alkaline soils. Stop adding additional lime of any time, they are all alkaline, as well as your water. There are other neutral sources of Calcium if you need them.

OldPhart · Apr 11, 2017

Pwyll said:
Check the ppm/tds. If ppm is low you can ignore ph. If ppm is high you have a problem whatever the ph.

Exactly! Let your nutes and buffers determine the PH, not the crap in your water. Sure, if you knew exactly what was in your water, you can possibly work with it..... but I for one am too lazy to screw with it. Hence the reason I only deal with RO water. best $120 I've spent lately, and I have it hooked to the sink for drinking water as well.

Space Case · Apr 11, 2017

OldPhart said:
Exactly! Let your nutes and buffers determine the PH, not the crap in your water. Sure, if you knew exactly what was in your water, you can possibly work with it..... but I for one am too lazy to screw with it. Hence the reason I only deal with RO water. best $120 I've spent lately, and I have it hooked to the sink for drinking water as well.

But what is the point of growing clean and organically and trying to mitigate your impact to the environment if you are pissing 2 gallons down the drain for every gallon of clean water? If you can modify your soil to deal with your water, why use RO? Thats not how a large scale organic farm would deal with this.

OldPhart · Apr 11, 2017

Space Case said:
But what is the point of growing clean and organically and trying to mitigate your impact to the environment if you are pissing 2 gallons down the drain for every gallon of clean water?

Actually it is a little over 5 gallons down the drain, for every gallon of RO water with the cheap units.

moses wellfleet · Apr 11, 2017

If you have an air conditioner running use the condensate, that is RO water!... Otherwise find RO water from another source, I would hate to fuck with my living soil with water like you are describing!

Space Case · Apr 11, 2017

moses wellfleet said:
If you have an air conditioner running use the condensate, that is RO water!... Otherwise find RO water from another source, I would hate to fuck with my living soil with water like you are describing!

Technically that is distilled water actually, LOL!

moses wellfleet · Apr 11, 2017

A/C condensate
Reverse osmosis
Rain water

All pure water is hydrogen and oxygen. For the purposes of this discussion they are all the same thing. However distillation of tap water that contains chlorine may not remove the chlorine. Moisture removed from the air does not contain chlorine, therefore cannot be compared to distilled water from other sources!

RO water may be slightly less pure than the water I collect from my a/c but I doubt that the difference is noticeable!

If you wanna get technical the process of condensation is distillation. But a/c condensate mustn't be confused with distilled tap water. For our application a/c condensate is effectively the same as RO water. At any rate if you have it use it, your plants will thank you!

Space Case · Apr 11, 2017

moses wellfleet said:
A/C condensate
Reverse osmosis
Rain water

All pure water is hydrogen and oxygen. For the purposes of this discussion they are all the same thing. However distillation of tap water that contains chlorine may not remove the chlorine. Moisture removed from the air does not contain chlorine, therefore cannot be compared to distilled water from other sources!

RO water may be slightly less pure than the water I collect from my a/c but I doubt that the difference is noticeable!

If you wanna get technical the process of condensation is distillation. But a/c condensate mustn't be confused with distilled tap water. For our application a/c condensate is effectively the same as RO water. At any rate if you have it use it, your plants will thank you!

And it should be also noted that water collected from an A/C or dehumidifier may contain copper, because of contact with copper coils. Most newer units or units designed specifically for grows shouldn't have this issue, but if you are still rocking that 5ton handler from the 90s, you might have an issue.

HazePhase · Apr 17, 2017

I am currently testing at 8.9-9.1 PH for tap water.
I am letting it sit out 24 hours to evaporate any chlorine and also I am using Organic Lemon Juice - 1tbsp - 2tbsp for every 4-5 gallons of water and that is helping bring it down to 7.2-7.5 which is what I am using.

KONY · Apr 17, 2017

The first reply already mentioned it, but you avoided/ignored it. You need to check your PH before you put it in the plant. Then water the plant, make sure its soaking it up good, and water to some run off. Gotta make sure you don't just pour water thru and it runs down/out the sides.

Then you compare the 2 PH numbers. This will tell you if the soil is working as it should.

HazePhase · Apr 17, 2017

KONY said:
The first reply already mentioned it, but you avoided/ignored it. You need to check your PH before you put it in the plant. Then water the plant, make sure its soaking it up good, and water to some run off. Gotta make sure you don't just pour water thru and it runs down/out the sides.

Then you compare the 2 PH numbers. This will tell you if the soil is working as it should.

Right now I'm not watering enough for run off so I won't be able to do this.
Also with dolomite lime mixed in with a bit of oyster shell in my rock dust / my readings I feel 7.5 should be fine.

Ph Question - Tap water is 8.9 -Clackimus Coots Organic Soil

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