how many generations til a strain becomes yours

kopite · Oct 13, 2015

SpaceBros. said:
I'm pretty sure (although not 100%) that DJ Short sold his Blueberry strain to DP under some kind of license or agreement. Some say DP overused the strain according to the agreement and that DJ is more than a little peeved about this and rightfully so if that's the case. But if it weren't for DP the world wouldn't know BB as we do today.

DP appeared to rip him off, there was an agreement and then one day that stopped and so did the royalties.... they just got seeds off him, didn't want his input etc etc...

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By the early 1990's I was extremely interested in the burgeoning seed market developing in Holland. I had known about the seed banks since 1983 and was always only interested in obtaining more pure, land-race varieties. Unfortunately, there were only hybrid crosses ever available at the time and I had more than enough of my own to work with. By 1993 I finally made the pilgrimage to Amsterdam where I made new connections. In 1994 I connected with the first company that I worked with in Europe. By 1995 I was supplying this company with seed-stock both for sale and for breed work. I had contracted with this company to produce Blueberry, Flo and Blue Velvet.

The first company I worked with in Europe sprouted only 25 seeds of each of these varieties to make selections from. Other than supplying seed-stock, I was only minimally involved in the selection process. I did get to see the mother and father plants alive, however, the selection process had already been done prior by others. Unfortunately, my relationship with this company was short-lived as all the owner really wanted was my seed-stock. Once he had it I became a very low priority in his scheme. In all honesty I was never paid one red cent for any of the Blueberry (or ?Flow? or Blue Velvet) that company number one in Europe produced (plus having over 3,000 seeds that I produced completely ripped off).

Needless to say this lack of concern prompted me to seek other possibilities that culminated in my relationship with the second company I worked with in Europe. At this company about 50 seeds of each variety were sprouted, but I was once again mainly left out of the selection process except for sampling a number of finished products and making selections based on those (which is enough, actually). I never got to see any of the live plants from this selection process at company number two in Europe. I also contributed seed-stock for three more varieties there; Blue Moonshine, Blue Heaven and Purple Passion. The owner of this company was satisfied with paying me the minimum amount I would consider adequate. Fortunately, part of the deal was my ability to remain independent and work with whomever else I pleased.

can't remember which way round the companies were, sag 1st then DP or flip
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yocs · Oct 13, 2015

Anyone got any suggestions on other strains of blueberry I could add to the mix to spice things up a bit. Bb is deff my favorite strains with its rock hard nugz and euphoric high. Also I wanted to add that I greatly respect everyone who's had anything to do with the cannabis industry and getting it to where it is. Without them I wouldn't be able to do this. While most of this isn't hard alot have risked all and still do.

Genghis Kush · Oct 13, 2015

I suppose one could purchase seeds called "blueberry" that end up not smelling or tasting like blueberry at all and then people would be asking you why you call it blueberry?

SpaceBros. · Oct 13, 2015

Genghis Kush said:
"Secondly plant breeding is more fun and hobby then "hard-work" per se. It's not like DJ's doing anything special that others can't do given the opportunity."

you may want to look into Djs work. He may have done more than you realize.

Unfortunately I have no interest in DJ Short strains. His price point is way OTT for what it appears to be and his views on plant breeder's rights appear to be in conflict with mine. I was also chatting with someone claiming to be DJ Short's son, JD, on another forum. From the way he behaved I won't be giving DJ any of my money. He also suggests DJ did his BB breeding in a 4x4 tent i.e a hobby garden. Just checking here:

http://en.**********.eu/strain-info/Blueberry/DJ_Short/

It appears blueberry can be produced in around 6 generations using only four existing strains assuming the Oaxacan, Afghani, Chocolate Thai and Thai were not already his. It also states BB dates back to the 70's which is a very long time so maybe he spent a long time working the parental strains. So definitely more than a fair amount of work involved but nothing special IMHO.

Funny also how DJ never mentions who or where he obtained his lines from. Maybe DJ strain hunted them all.

In any case if I was a breeder I'd have no problems with crossing the best male and female I obtained from a 10pk of DJ BB and selling them as SB Blueberry. I'd obviously also be happy with someone purchasing my SB Blueberry and breeding for one generation and calling it their own. But that's just me.

yocs · Oct 13, 2015

Genghis Kush said:
I suppose one could purchase seeds called "blueberry" that end up not smelling or tasting like blueberry at all and then people would be asking you why you call it blueberry?

that was one of my reasons for wanting to cross my own bb plants. I would hook people up with some bud and they'd be like "this doesn't smell like bb" or this isn't bb its different from the last stuff you called bb". The whole time I'm thinking I grew it from seed so I know it is. Then id have to explain pheno types to them.

Rosa Luxemburg · Oct 13, 2015

You're going to hear a whole lot of bullshit on ethics, and breeders, and "people's work", and it's going to come from people who say that because it's part of the forum narrative for fitting in here. These people don't understand plant breeding, and neither do most commercial breeders. The seeds are never ours, and even if they could be, a "variety" certainly isn't someone's because he did the minimal work of crossing two elites and calling it a line.

kopite · Oct 13, 2015

SpaceBros. said:
Unfortunately I have no interest in DJ Short strains. His price point is way OTT for what it appears to be and his views on plant breeder's rights appear to be in conflict with mine. I was also chatting with someone claiming to be DJ Short's son, JD, on another forum. From the way he behaved I won't be giving DJ any of my money. He also suggests DJ did his BB breeding in a 4x4 tent i.e a hobby garden. Just checking here:

http://en.**********.eu/strain-info/Blueberry/DJ_Short/

It appears blueberry can be produced in around 6 generations using only four existing strains assuming the Oaxacan, Afghani, Chocolate Thai and Thai were not already his. It also states BB dates back to the 70's which is a very long time so maybe he spent a long time working the parental strains. So definitely more than a fair amount of work involved but nothing special IMHO.

Funny also how DJ never mentions who or where he obtained his lines from. Maybe DJ strain hunted them all.

In any case if I was a breeder I'd have no problems with crossing the best male and female I obtained from a 10pk of DJ BB and selling them as SB Blueberry. I'd obviously also be happy with someone purchasing my SB Blueberry and breeding for one generation and calling it their own. But that's just me.

He is actually one who has stated the hows and whys of his work... you praise DP yet not him? seriously wtf....

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227874
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=96963
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=87285
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6309523#post6309523

Hackers gonna hack....

Rosa Luxemburg · Oct 13, 2015

SpaceBros there are a lot of bs breeders but you are showing your half-knowledge slagging on bad practices and including DJ in that list. He's one of only a handful of breeders that comes close to real horticultural practices. He's the real deal, and if the origins of his lines predate your time on earth so greatly that you're unaware of them, then I suggest you do more research. The idea of easily recreating BB is laughable. We'd need a time machine and a connection to the Brotherhood of Eternal Love.

Jellyfish · Oct 13, 2015

yocs said:
Anyone got any suggestions on other strains of blueberry I could add to the mix to spice things up a bit. Bb is deff my favorite strains with its rock hard nugz and euphoric high. Also I wanted to add that I greatly respect everyone who's had anything to do with the cannabis industry and getting it to where it is. Without them I wouldn't be able to do this. While most of this isn't hard alot have risked all and still do.

Nirvana's Blue Mystic has some nice phenos. However, the blueberry in it also came from DJ Short (I think).

Also, Chimera has some interesting strains with blueberry in them, just haven't tried any yet.*** His stuff is usually good though.

***Actually DID run C Plus, which is california orange x Dj 's Blueberry, once. It was a keeper, but in my case, I didn't know shit about curing then. I would like to try it again though.

SpaceBros. · Oct 13, 2015

kopite said:
DP appeared to rip him off, there was an agreement and then one day that stopped and so did the royalties.... they just got seeds off him, didn't want his input etc etc...

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can't remember which way round the companies were, sag 1st then DP or flip
[/FONT]

That's gotta suck for DJ if that was the case. But as the saying goes fool me once shame on you fool me again shame on me. We all have to learn from our mistakes.

SpaceBros. · Oct 13, 2015

Rosa Luxemburg said:
SpaceBros there are a lot of bs breeders but you are showing your half-knowledge slagging on bad practices and including DJ in that list. He's one of only a handful of breeders that comes close to real horticultural practices. He's the real deal, and if the origins of his lines predate your time on earth so greatly that you're unaware of them, then I suggest you do more research. The idea of easily recreating BB is laughable. We'd need a time machine and a connection to the Brotherhood of Eternal Love.

I wasn't talking about re-creating BB, I was just explaining to others how it was bred. Besides it's always been a difficult to grow strain that lacks vigor, has hermie tendencies and sometimes lacks potency (so I've heard) so why would you want to?

Yeah well it's not exactly clear if HOG was a land-race Oaxacan or something he worked extensively. It was never for sale. Same goes for the Chocolate Thai. Maybe you can enlighten me and others who might be interested. Thanks kindly.

I'm not sold personally on DJ being a good and proper breed either. So agree to disagree there. One great strain and two good strains in 30+ years work with all the access to the excellent land-races that we no longer have today.

SpaceBros. · Oct 13, 2015

kopite said:
He is actually one who has stated the hows and whys of his work... you praise DP yet not him? seriously wtf....

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227874
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=96963
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=87285
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6309523#post6309523

Hackers gonna hack....

I "praise" DP because both times I purchased seeds from them the strain description matched closely to what I grew out. Do I think they are one of the best or better breeders out there. Not really. I do however like their marketing and innovation (like fem. seeds) however and can appreciate the work they did to preserve skunk lines. It's pretty low of them if they ripped DJ off but that said man up about it and don't whinge and whine and get the on with business.

Suckers gonna suck ....

yocs · Oct 13, 2015

anyone making fire pre internet has my respect.

EastCoast710 · Oct 13, 2015

Big-Narstie said:
There yours as soon as you paid for em but you must always state who worked the genetics before you.. Did DP get their BB from DJ originally?? Probably never mentioned it themselves lol disrespectful mofo's! U could always Change the name and claim ownership?? Oops cats already out the bag lol

dj short worked with DP to make the blueberry so ya its djs genetics

kopite · Oct 13, 2015

SpaceBros. said:
I "praise" DP because both times I purchased seeds from them the strain description matched closely to what I grew out. Do I think they are one of the best or better breeders out there. Not really. I do however like their marketing and innovation (like fem. seeds) however and can appreciate the work they did to preserve skunk lines. It's pretty low of them if they ripped DJ off but that said man up about it and don't whinge and whine and get the on with business.

Suckers gonna suck ....

What work did they do? on skunk lines? I'll have to ask ya ma bout the last bit :moon:

.

((but it doesn't really matter, big fish will always eat little fish and all that jazz), and besides we seem to be going in a DP vs DJ sidetrack, if the OP has line bred them for 4 generations then the OP could just put that in the description, seeds bought from DP, line bred and selected by yocs, as I think someone put previously...))

Genghis Kush · Oct 13, 2015

SpaceBros. said:
Unfortunately I have no interest in DJ Short strains. His price point is way OTT for what it appears to be and his views on plant breeder's rights appear to be in conflict with mine. I was also chatting with someone claiming to be DJ Short's son, JD, on another forum. From the way he behaved I won't be giving DJ any of my money. He also suggests DJ did his BB breeding in a 4x4 tent i.e a hobby garden. Just checking here:

http://en.**********.eu/strain-info/Blueberry/DJ_Short/

It appears blueberry can be produced in around 6 generations using only four existing strains assuming the Oaxacan, Afghani, Chocolate Thai and Thai were not already his. It also states BB dates back to the 70's which is a very long time so maybe he spent a long time working the parental strains. So definitely more than a fair amount of work involved but nothing special IMHO.

Funny also how DJ never mentions who or where he obtained his lines from. Maybe DJ strain hunted them all.

In any case if I was a breeder I'd have no problems with crossing the best male and female I obtained from a 10pk of DJ BB and selling them as SB Blueberry. I'd obviously also be happy with someone purchasing my SB Blueberry and breeding for one generation and calling it their own. But that's just me.

I couldnt access your link

Dj short has provided a lot of information on how he has done his work. You should read it, you will learn a lot.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42050

Payaso · Oct 14, 2015

Wikipedia has tons of info regarding plant patents and breeders rights, of which there are many. Only reason a cannabis strain hasn't gone this route yet is unclear to me...

The PVPA confers a limited period of legal control to breeders of sexually reproduced or tuber propagated plant varieties. In order to be eligible for a certificate under the PVPA, a plant variety must satisfy four requirements. First, it must be new, in the sense that propagating or harvested material has not been sold or otherwise disposed of for purposes of exploitation for more than one year in the United States, or more than four years in any foreign jurisdiction (or six years in the case of a tree or vine). Second, the variety must be distinct—that is, clearly distinguishable from any other publicly known variety. Distinctness may be based on one or more identifiable morphological, physiological, or other characteristics, including commercially valuable characteristics affecting activities such as milling and baking (in the case of wheat). Third, the variety must be uniform, in the sense that any variations are describable, predictable, and commercially acceptable. Finally, the variety must be stable, in the sense that the variety, when reproduced, will remain unchanged with regard to its essential and distinctive characteristics within a reasonable degree of commercial reliability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_Variety_Protection_Act_of_1970

CoCoSativas · Oct 14, 2015

Cool info man

trichrider · Oct 14, 2015

meiosis

shuffles the genes between the two chromosomes in each pair (one received from each parent), producing chromosomes with new genetic combinations in every gamete generated

from wiki. and elsewhere:

so every crossing produces new genetic combinations.

new genetic combinations are called whateverthefuque you want to name them.

this isn't an opinion......

yocs · Oct 14, 2015

that prolly wouldn't be a good thing. From what I've seen people already act pretty crazy about certain clones.

how many generations til a strain becomes yours

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