Questions on how to increase terpenes: light spectrum, cooler temps etc

greenops · Jan 29, 2014

Shaggyballs... i haven't bought an MH bulb yet. I only got an HPS dual spectrum bulb, which i used it in veg too. But the other thing that i feel makes sense is, that HPS is said to produce a higher yield than MH. So I was going to use HPS until they stop swelling, then switch MH at a stage where weight gain isn't an issue anymore. But if it completely doesn't make sense, let me know, so that i can save my bucks for buying an MH bulb. And yes, I was planning to go down from 600w to 400w once i use the MH bulb.

Baked Alaskan, yes I let my plants go longer than most growers i observe. Usually up to 80 to 90 days after the switch...

shaggyballs · Jan 29, 2014

greenops said:
Shaggyballs... i haven't bought an MH bulb yet. I only got an HPS dual spectrum bulb, which i used it in veg too. But the other thing that i feel makes sense is, that HPS is said to produce a higher yield than MH. So I was going to use HPS until they stop swelling, then switch MH at a stage where weight gain isn't an issue anymore. But if it completely doesn't make sense, let me know, so that i can save my bucks for buying an MH bulb. And yes, I was planning to go down from 600w to 400w once i use the MH bulb.

Baked Alaskan, yes I let my plants go longer than most growers i observe. Usually up to 80 to 90 days after the switch...

I don't think you will see a big difference either way.
This just my opinion but changing the spectrum late in flower may cause vegetative type growth which could increase yield but probably not the best idea for terpene production!

Dual spectrum is the best of both world....Although there is a new bulb out called the finisher...more UV radiation..Dunno if it is effective???????

Just keep the temps at the bud tops down(remote temp. probe)
But think of it this way if you do change it out you will prove this experiment true or false.
If you have the time and money why not!!
But make sure to document as much as you can.
Good luck
shag

Moe Funk · Jan 29, 2014

Not sure what your drying process is, but I have noticed all the smell goes away if the buds get jarred up when they are too moist, even if they are burped. If it's very moist you will get mildew smell, if it's a little moist you will get bland smells, if it is dry you get full on smells.

Moe Funk · Jan 29, 2014

Also I dry them in a room that gets them sufficiently dry in 3-4 days. I apply mild heat if need be. I know some people go longer but in my experience I get the best smells and flavors in this time period.

Ras Mason · Feb 1, 2014

The brix question, as mentionned earlier, is what distress me the most. now that we all try the cold treatment for colour and resin, the light depravation, reducing the flashpoint for a lot of volatile compounds....etc... are all brix level negative...

Iffy · Feb 1, 2014

Granger2 said:
Terpines will evaporate. I use to have the same problem with low 80's and lights 18" above canopy. Beautiful potent buds, mild flavor. Raised lights, got temps to high 70's, and flavor improved dramatically. I use HPS and at 4 weeks into bloom, I supplement 4 hours/day with Reptile UVB lights. They make a noticeable difference. Good luck. -granger

.

Hey Granger, thanks for sharing that.
I've experienced all of the above in my SCROG. Pale, kinda burned out tops to the buds due to heat. I run a sealed light cooling system, so I have glass in the hoods. I didn't know glass blocked a large part of the UV spectrum and your use of UVB lamps is a nice, cheap fix.
I was looking to supplement the last 4-5 weeks of flower with some CFl's but I think I shall take your advice and mix a couple of UVB's in there.
As for general Terpine/Trich production, I have been doing some research into 2 additional methods which may, or may not produce an increase in frost.
1. Spraying with Chitosan mixed in an organic acid, such as Giberellic. This apparently mimicks insect attack and stimulates the defensive reaction and producing more trichs.

2. Mechanical Wounding. Also mimicking insect attack. I have tried this in a few different ways - nibbling the leaves with a hole punch etc. but have not noticed any positive reaction. However, in my reading I have come to realise, that these two procedures should be used together to achieve this defensive reaction and stimulate the cascade of VOC's.

Has anyone tried either of these procedures before? I would love to hear from you before I have a go.

Stay safe & happy growing :tiphat:

Ras Mason · Feb 1, 2014

i remember using CHI from gh alot 10 years ago....at the same time, i was using bruising and stem ¨chiropractic¨ roll.......the girls started to remind me of this bitch i used to date....just brush up on a leaf and full spray right in the face,,,

Ras Mason · Feb 1, 2014

seriously, directing air movement like a boss and coupled with sufficient AC source to do so is mutcho better than raising the sun away from the planet like it ain t nothing...
esêcially withe relationship with uv...intensity,,,and terpene production....and that funky eye that forms at the base of the GST....

Only Ornamental · Feb 1, 2014

Iffy said:
.
However, in my reading I have come to realise, that these two procedures should be used together to achieve this defensive reaction and stimulate the cascade of VOC's.

Has anyone tried either of these procedures before? I would love to hear from you before I have a go.

You're correct (from a purely theoretical and scientific point of view) with the needed combination.
Althoug, as I already told you a while back (KLICK TO GO BACK IN TIME), a lot of constant and small woundings should be done. There is no point in defending a cow which wounds once (and the plant is gone) but boosting for example deterring agents when the grasshoppers slowly start proliferating or increase fungicidal products when nearby plants get PM... see what I mean?

Would really be great to have some real life experience documented here!

Iffy · Feb 1, 2014

Only Ornamental said:
You're correct (from a purely theoretical and scientific point of view) with the needed combination.
Althoug, as I already told you a while back (KLICK TO GO BACK IN TIME), a lot of constant and small woundings should be done. There is no point in defending a cow which wounds once (and the plant is gone) but boosting for example deterring agents when the grasshoppers slowly start proliferating or increase fungicidal products when nearby plants get PM... see what I mean?

Would really be great to have some real life experience documented here!

Yeah I get that OO
I did a lot of regular wounding to only one plant from 12. Small nibbles for about 5 minutes each other day but got no visible affect. I'm going to treat two plants this time. Spraying with Chitosan dissolved in Gibb & constant, regular mech damage. I will need to shield the other 10 when I'm spraying the Chitosan mixture but I've no real idea of when in the flowering period to spray - I'm thinking 3rd or 4th week of flowering. How many doses & how often? I guess I'll just have to suck it & see.
Regards & happy growing :tiphat:

shaggyballs · Feb 2, 2014

try this:

omera1 said:
...100ppm in flower and resin will explode! from week 2-4 foliar spray... try it
here the requested link about the resin:
http://www.plantphysiology.org/content/133/3/1367.short

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=251272

Iffy · Feb 3, 2014

shaggyballs said:
try this:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=251272

Thanks for that Shaggyballs.
It's one of the articles that got me started down this road in the first place! Lol
I have come to a plan of action. I have sourced some 'Snow crab' Chitosan & some Giberrelic acid, all I have to do now is source the Jasmonic.
Chitosan needs to be dissolved in an organic acid, so both of the above should do the job. Two sprays a week from week 2, through to the end of week 4.
More research on dilution rates before I feel confident but I'm definitely going to have a go.
I will of course keep you guys informed.
Stay safe & happy growing :tiphat:

shaggyballs · Feb 3, 2014

What ppm GIBB are you using????
Feel free to contact me before using it!!!!
Unless you are confident in what you are doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GIBB INFO
:smoke out:

OLDproLg · Feb 3, 2014

Natural conditions an natural soils......

OUTDOORS you will get the most true flavored terpenes!
CONDITIONS have to be perfect,but more so the mediums used...
using coco,will change terpenes,using hydro will change terpens,
using a finely made natural compost will give you the best flavor profiles,
an truest terpenes for each strain tested.
simple:nature!!

Exzzzample:i have a sweet blueberry cheese S2 pheno,when grown outdoors it will
color blue and give that blueberry sweet flavor/smell...
indoor under 1000 HPS,she olny gives the sweet smell,no blueberry.
hence the outdoor being the place to give the truest flavinoids an terpenes!!!

BINGO.
Lg

Iffy · Feb 3, 2014

Trichome Induction

Trichome Induction

Picked this out; If true, I'm deffo having a go!

http://aobpla.oxfordjournals.org/content/2012/pls018.full

'If stress is defined as external conditions that are suboptimal for growth, past work has demonstrated that stress can affect the formation of GT on leaves. For example, Solanum lycopersicum (Solanaceae) treated with methyl jasmonate developed nine times higher GT densities compared with untreated controls (Boughton et al. 2005). Similarly, jasmonic acid (JA), gibberellic acid and benzylaminopurine (BAP, a synthetic cytokinin) applied to Arabidopsis thaliana (Brassicaceae) resulted in up to four times higher GT densities (Maes et al. 2008). In the same species, wounding and JA also significantly increased the number of GT, whereas salicylic acid (SA) decreased the number of GT (GT = Globular Trichomes)

Getting interesting....

Iffy · Feb 3, 2014

shaggyballs said:
What ppm GIBB are you using????
Feel free to contact me before using it!!!!
Unless you are confident in what you are doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GIBB INFO

http://aobpla.oxfordjournals.org/content/2012/pls018.full

A lot more info here mate

Only Ornamental · Feb 3, 2014

Iffy said:
...I have sourced some 'Snow crab' Chitosan & some Giberrelic acid...
Chitosan needs to be dissolved in an organic acid, so both of the above should do the job...

Hi Iffy, what do you mean with 'needs to be dissolved in organic acid'? You're not going to dissolve chitosan in pure giberrelic acid cause the latter is a solid...
Chitosan, a 'poly-aminosugar' is better soluble at low pH but the small amount of giberrelic acid won't do the trick.
And what's the point with the organic, couldn't it be inorganic as well?

shaggyballs · Feb 3, 2014

Gibb. is touchy stuff !!!!!!!!!!!
I was lookin out for you ....but you seem to know what your up against!
Thank you for the link it should make for a good read.
shag

Only Ornamental · Feb 3, 2014

Iffy said:
http://aobpla.oxfordjournals.org/content/2012/pls018.full

A lot more info here mate

The conclusion of this publication is the really interesting part; no need to read it all

.
I summarise; older/taller plants in the field respond not really to chemically mimicked stress signalling and findings with young indoor plants couldn't be reproduced.
If the results could by applied to cannabis, it'll mean that only well protected indoor plants will profit and also only on young, not fully developed leaves.

RonSmooth · Feb 3, 2014

IMO most is just harvested too early. I have made this mistake numerous times. Impatience, space restrictions, wishful thinking, they all caused me to take plants down as soon as they looked ready.

I let a single c99 go another week after I was sure it looke finished. I usually take my c99 at 8 weeks. The 9 week plant is MUCH better in terms of smell, trichimes coverage and general appearance. I wish I had gone 10weeks.

I have plants in flower now and I will not take one before 10 weeks.

All my previous grows yielded good but not great product. I am almost cpnvinced this was due to early harvest.

Questions on how to increase terpenes: light spectrum, cooler temps etc

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