Is coco superior to rockwool?

_Dude said:

I was all excited about rockwool but now I'm reading threads about people seeing 50% reduction in growth after switching from hydroton to rockwool, ph problems, etc. Hell with that. And yeah you get all the answers telling him to do this or do that, look, the whole point of switching to rockwool is less work. I don't want a system redesign, I want to get rid of hydroton, sorting roots out from ANYTHING, transplanting, etc. The idea of just moving one block and setting it on top of another block and calling that transplanting is very appealing.

The there's the gnats and the algae. Well, I got algae now. And gnats. But I don't want a bigger algae/gnat problem.

Coco? Yeah well, I was really liking that "put the block on the other block, done" thing. Now I don't know. I'm going to have to run a side-by-side with a few in rockwool and see how it goes. Maybe I'll do a few in coco too. But I could give a shit about all this hippy green recyclable stuff. I want easy. Easier than clay balls. All this "soak, flush, expand, process" crap sounds like the opposite direction from easy. But at least I don't have to recycle it, like I have to recycle hydroton. That stuff's way too expensive to throw out. So we'll see. Hell I'm considering dirt at this point. Anything where I can just TOSS the rootballs.

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not sure what to say about the people your talking about.....

ive ran both coco and rw to death.....

i prefer rw in so many more ways then coco....

water from the top, till it comes out the bottom, how can you fuck that up?

your block on block transplanting.....

STFU said:

Talked to some peeps down at the grow shop today and they have completely spun my head around. Saying that this coco stuff is just plain superior to rockwool in every way. Could anyone enlighten me? Im going to start reading this forums from the top down. Starting with the stickies.

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I´ve worked with both for years.
this is what I found out:

+ coco:
coco is ideal for motherplants
coco is good for hydro starters
coco has similiar yields to other hydro medium
you can recycle, though a steril (new) medium is safer
no problem with a few days without watering


- coco:
the drainige works too slow for a hydrophonic medium
some strains (like the AK47) do not develope a good taste
not to be used with top drippers when running a recycling systems


+ rockwool (grow flakes or cubes, I don´t like slabs):
very fast grow
very good drainige
easy to feed the plant what it needs, availible for the plant fast
air supply
not expansive

- rockwool
takes some experience with plants
if not watered for 2-3 days, massive problems

Edit:Sorry, doubleposted.

kushbanana said:

HERES THE FACTS:

Rockwool more stable, consistent, no bugs, less prep, etc etc...

really only beenfit to coco over wool is that it is re-usable... both are HIGHLY oxygenated mediums that will end in the the same results.. There is no better currently information that is FACT than that LOL.

COCO has some antifungal properties that some say make it a better choice than wool as you can use beneficials that you can't use in wool, but you can sterilze wool which is arguably as effective as a myco laden rootzone, per the proper nutrient ratios and levels being available to the plant.

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I know for a fact that alot of commercial (commercial=acres and acres of greenhouses) vegetable growers in Spain and Netherlands switched to coco. Look what the real pro's use and you won't be too far off most of the time.

Lain said:

Benefits of Coco vs Rockwool (External Link)

http://www.livestrong.com/article/282260-benefits-of-cocoa-fiber-vs-rockwool/

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Neutral to Plants

According to the Georgia Agricultural Education Curriculum Office, coco fiber is free of weed seeds and other potential contaminants that can impact your garden or hydroponic system. This material carries no diseases or harmful microorganisms, unlike rockwool, which may bring unwanted seeds or diseases into your garden.

WTF? Golem-seeds, or what?

coco is the BBC of growing mediums(the perfect combination of ease, yield, and forgiveness)... coco just straight up doesnt give a fuck, keep her wet... or let her dry out(not optimal but i get lazy as hell and have the "ehh, it'll be fine mentality"). she doesnt give a fuck about pot size either(cant say that about all bitches). coco goes perfectly with my DGAF attitude(its almost like a game where i neglect my plants more and more just cause i can), dependency on huge yields with extreme fucking ease, and the fact that i can disappear for several days at a time.

super easy to clone in... amazing wicking properties perfect for cloning and bottom feeding, plus your hands wont get itchy(yea i know where latex gloves but incase you havent gotten it so far i DGAF enough to spend money on gloves and shit... latex is expensive son, bareback 4 life)

sometimes i get lazy as hell and treat her like soil.... SHE DONT GIVE A FUCK!!......coco is the honeybadger of the grow world. if coco was any easier her name would be kim kardashian

Cobra Fist said:

coco is the BBC of growing mediums(the perfect combination of ease, yield, and forgiveness)... coco just straight up doesnt give a fuck, keep her wet... or let her dry out(not optimal but i get lazy as hell and have the "ehh, it'll be fine mentality"). she doesnt give a fuck about pot size either(cant say that about all bitches). coco goes perfectly with my DGAF attitude(its almost like a game where i neglect my plants more and more just cause i can), dependency on huge yields with extreme fucking ease, and the fact that i can disappear for several days at a time.

super easy to clone in... amazing wicking properties perfect for cloning and bottom feeding, plus your hands wont get itchy(yea i know where latex gloves but incase you havent gotten it so far i DGAF enough to spend money on gloves and shit... latex is expensive son, bareback 4 life)

sometimes i get lazy as hell and treat her like soil.... SHE DONT GIVE A FUCK!!......coco is the honeybadger of the grow world. if coco was any easier her name would be kim kardashian

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So true.. I treat coco plants like soil throughout veg, imo helps the roots develop more and i can leave them for a few days out of laziness. Then i water every other day beginning flower, and every day mid-late flower. I've abused them pretty bad and it's almost like they had thrived off it.
Only thing i hate about coco is potting the plants up and disposing it.. I just shoveled and bagged up about 400 gallons of it in my backyard from past 2 grows yesterday, not fun at all.. For me that's where Rockwool sounds appealing from a production stand point, save lots of time.. Coco any day over RW for a small tent grow or similar.

kushbanana said:

HERES THE FACTS:

Rockwool more stable, consistent, no bugs, less prep, etc etc...

really only beenfit to coco over wool is that it is re-usable... both are HIGHLY oxygenated mediums that will end in the the same results..

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That is not a fact. I have used both. Rockwool is not more stable. Seems the best I have found so far is Coco with perlite layer on top and on bottom.

Old post but I have got decades experience in both substrates...often times side by side in the same rooms under the same lamps. 4" blocks on top of slabs or hugos (uni slabs give me slightly better results than Hugos) or 2 & 3 gallon fabric pots of straight coco coir (ive mixed various parts perlite over the years - no difference except faster dry downs). The mediums look nothing alike. One looks like soil or peat and the other some space age wrapped insulation. But the 2 are virtually the same in results. And in fertigation requirements/times/amounts. Most people shun rockwool off because they almost always over water. Keeping it soaked. Most also flood and drain and while this can work decent..its vastly superior to feed using a top drip to waste...both medium substrates actually. Coco coir is awesome but the calcium and magnesium buffer needs to be filled with coco. I sometimes with certain strains get yellow leaves and purple stems from freshly transplanted cuts to small 4" pots oc coco for the first couple weeks. And although coco coir is much more consistently processed and "de - salted" these days (back in the day it was horrible) its still iffy what you get in a brick or a bag. This has plagued veggie greenhouse growers with the batches of coco peat as well. I know of a couple greenhouse operators down by Lansing that went back to rockwool slabs just for tbis very reason...inconsistency of a coco peat source. Once roots get going though they come around and take right off usually. But this slows new growth sometimes (only certain strains in new coco do this) and the rockwool plants blow passed them. But once roots are going and the plants are established..the 2 mediums are virtually identical..right down to dry down/feed times and strengths. That being said...rockwool is slightly more expensive (not by much) but is WAY less messy and time consuming when potting up. Transplanting to final pot with coco and alot of plants can take my girlfriend and I HOURS. And a mess. With rockwool I can trans the same number of plants in a matter of minutes with no mess. Super simple. Just sitting a block on a bigger block/slab (again - Uni Slabs for the win) and your off and running. Setting a 4" block of rockwool that is damn near completely dry onto the bigger that is freshly soaked (but drained) with pH balanced solution makes roots go nuts!!! Yeah...Iam leaning towards rockwool these days just for ease of use. But truth is..if you use the mediums like they are supposed to be used...damn near the same. And Ive used both for a very long time. What is key is top drip to runoff (10 to 20 %) and taking note of dry downs for early root growth and feeding again.

Pretty much agree on all points. Used coco for years but switched to rockwool this year after one too many times getting a free complimentary fungus gnat plague with purchase. And repotting and overall labor times are so drastically reduced and it's clean. Cleaner drains, trays, pots if you use them, etc...

I was thinking of going with a 4" on top of a uni-slab and research says they are almost exactly double the volume of a hugo. It seemed the only numbers that made sense with that situation were 4/light, max 6 and I don't like the inconsistency of that scenario. One weak plant is 25% of area with 4 and 6 is cost prohibitive. Also canopy is not consistent in density and harder to get level. Just curious what kind of plant numbers you run with the unis?

Had a long post but got erased n not retyping now... Coco and rw both have there benefits n drawbacks... depending on the grower n situation... imo coco is more new user friendly

Rw dtw drip multi feeds. Beats coco imo. But you have to dial your shit and keep it wired tight. My .02

Want to add in short... no style or medium is better... it's all bout dialing in what works for your situation , coco soil rw hydroton, perfect whatever medium u use n you will be a happy grower... environment is the most important cause grow room design is what makes or breaks a grow. Ferrari makes a nice car kills it in the right situation but if ya take her n put her off road (in the wrong environment ) will fair as well or worse then an old Honda that costs less then the rims on ya Ferrari...

stoney917 said:

Want to add in short... no style or medium is better... it's all bout dialing in what works for your situation , coco soil rw hydroton, perfect whatever medium u use n you will be a happy grower... environment is the most important cause grow room design is what makes or breaks a grow. Ferrari makes a nice car kills it in the right situation but if ya take her n put her off road (in the wrong environment ) will fair as well or worse then an old Honda that costs less then the rims on ya Ferrari...

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Good points. Per your example though, when the roads are scenic and weather is perfect, it's even better in a Ferrari

Of course it's all subjective, so when someone asks "which is better" I'm assuming they mean "tell me your experience and preferences to help me make up my mind". Systems are a wide variable, proper environmental control in the classic sense of the term is more of a precise set of parameters with less leeway. Let's not forget that here, a growing system (media, volume, irrigation frequency) is also another form of environmental control.

Mudraya said:

Pretty much agree on all points. Used coco for years but switched to rockwool this year after one too many times getting a free complimentary fungus gnat plague with purchase. And repotting and overall labor times are so drastically reduced and it's clean. Cleaner drains, trays, pots if you use them, etc...

I was thinking of going with a 4" on top of a uni-slab and research says they are almost exactly double the volume of a hugo. It seemed the only numbers that made sense with that situation were 4/light, max 6 and I don't like the inconsistency of that scenario. One weak plant is 25% of area with 4 and 6 is cost prohibitive. Also canopy is not consistent in density and harder to get level. Just curious what kind of plant numbers you run with the unis?

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I like to run 9 plants per 6/750 Gavita (x8). I use Flo Tool plastic oil drip pans (2 bucks auto zone) for run off trays all plumbed together with 1/2" grommets and barbed fittings with lines to my basement sump well. GroPro NX Level plant grate/risers fit perfect in these saucers to keep rockwool out of spent solution while it drains. Run off automation. With a simple drip manifold up top. With the 1/2 " line and spaghetti tubing. With Uni Slabs and the suacers and grates I got the lowest clearance I can get and still have automatic feeds and runoffs (fuck a shop vac for them saucers - been there done that) in a low 7 foot basement and still get away with double ended Gavitas. Double endeds are BRIGHT as hell and I suggest they not be used in anything less than 8 feet (even the 6/750's). I had to ditch my tables and frames just because I lost valuble inches. With plumbed together saucers and unislabs with a 4 inch block I got the lowest clearance your gonna get with full automation on the feed up top and the runoff down below. I also recessed my Gavitas in between the basement floor (ceiling) joices. Than god they were a perfect fit. Gaining me almost another foot in clearance. I hear of growers using double endeds in tents and for the life of me I dont understand how they get away with it.

Double post

Cellmax grow cubes give better results then coir when grown by an expert. Much more controll.

coco tastes better

hazyfontazy said:

coco tastes better

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Ive heard this before and iam baffled by the statement. Its just a medium. How can coco coir as a substrate medium make pot "taste better" than rockwool? Cmon. I would think taste is mostly in cultivar selection and how its processed after harvest (dyring and curing). I call bullshit.

What it is is coco looks like soil. So the myth perpetuates that the closer it is to "soil" (another whole deal on what constitutes "soil") the better the taste. Another stoner/grower bullshit forum myth.

hazyfontazy said:

coco tastes better

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Coco not flushed properly for a long time is the worst chemical taste i have ever experieced. I love coco, just it holds on to shit like no other. Rw and pro mix i only flush for 7 to 10 days and the leaves yellow so bad i have to harvest before they retreat into the nug.