Fusarium or verticillium?

TheOutlawTree · Mar 1, 2015

Ive had trouble having a healthy crop since ive moved into this new spot. I have been dealing with root aphids for a while and thought that was my main culprit, but have been thinking something else is going as well.

I have been taking clones from clones since ive been at this spot. Ive been running Sour Diesel from dark heart.

These plants were in Vermifire soil and looked good for the previous 2 weeks. The only thing I could see where tiny nematodes on the roots. They weren't swarming with nematodes but they were there. The plants looked OK but this had me wondering if Ive also had parasitic nematodes or some sort of Root Disease / fungi, to go along with the Root Aphid's or Soil Mites I had been seeing before. Fast forward to
2 Days ago and I watered them all with Actinovate and Monterey Nematode control for preventative measures.

I went to go check them today as I was planning on taking clones in the next few days. 3 of the 6 Sour D plants were completely wilted over, While the other 3 looked OK. I wondered if the Actinovate and Nematode Control had some sort of weird reaction that killed the plants.. but wasn't sure why some of the plants are fine?

-3 out of 6 sour D's wilted over.
-2 out of 2 green cracks yellowed up and look unhealthy after application.
-The 1 blue dream plant looks un-affected from it.

Ive been wanting to send my plant roots to the lab to get tested, can anyone recommend a good plant lab here in California?

Crusader Rabbit · Mar 1, 2015

It's not what I think of as fusarium. The plants just look wilted. There isn't any apparent tissue damage. And the leaves don't look that bad. Not great, but they aren't that wilted themselves. It's mostly the new growth stems. No idea.

TheOutlawTree · Mar 1, 2015

I just checked the roots of all the effected plants. They looked decent. Nice white / tan healthy looking roots. When scoping with my 100x the only thing I could find was those tiny nematodes- quite a few of them. Im not sure how long that Monterey nematode control takes to work but It didn't appear to knock them back at all yet.

When I cracked open the stems at the base of the plant this is where I saw some issues. The insides of the stems were tan / brownish colored. It looks like they just rotted out. Its just strange that the roots looked nice and white.

Not sure what to think of the nematodes either.
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Im getting ready to veg my outdoor plants for next summers outdoor garden. I don't want to veg them here if theres some crazy disease going on, but ive got no where else to veg them.
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RetroGrow · Mar 1, 2015

Some nematodes are beneficial, so impossible to say anything about them without identifying them. Re: fusarium: Actinovate will prevent it. It's an innoculant. Good idea, but probably should be used before problem arises.
Monterey Nematode control could have caused bad reaction to some of them. Hard to say.
Lab that tests Cannabis:
http://www.allcropsolutions.com/
Nematode testing:
To submit samples for nematode diagnoses, or for questions, please contact: Nematology Laboratory, Plant Pest Diagnostics Branch, California Department of Food and Agriculture, 3294 Meadowview Road, Sacramento, CA 95832-1448, or call the Nematology Laboratory at 916-262-1100, fax number: 916-262-1190.

RetroGrow · Mar 1, 2015

TheOutlawTree said:
I just checked the roots of all the effected plants. They looked decent. Nice white / tan healthy looking roots. When scoping with my 100x the only thing I could find was those tiny nematodes- quite a few of them. Im not sure how long that Monterey nematode control takes to work but It didn't appear to knock them back at all yet.

When I cracked open the stems at the base of the plant this is where I saw some issues. The insides of the stems were tan / brownish colored. It looks like they just rotted out. Its just strange that the roots looked nice and white.

Not sure what to think of the nematodes either.
----

Im getting ready to veg my outdoor plants for next summers outdoor garden. I don't want to veg them here if theres some crazy disease going on, but ive got no where else to veg them.
----

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Fusarium will rot out the base of the stems.
Ditylenchus dipsaci are stem nematodes, but none have ever been confirmed by testing.
The lab I referenced does test for them, but I am betting on fusarium. Only way to know for certain is to send samples in for testing.

Crusader Rabbit · Mar 2, 2015

TheOutlawTree said:
When I cracked open the stems at the base of the plant this is where I saw some issues. The insides of the stems were tan / brownish colored. It looks like they just rotted out.

This does sound like fusarium.

TheOutlawTree · Mar 2, 2015

Should I just toss the other mother plants that look decent just incase they are infected somehow? I can get new clones from someone else for next round.

What is the best way to handle the situation as far as cleaning the flower room and other parts of my house? Bleach, H202? Is actinovate the only preventative I can use for my next round in regards to fusarium? Should I forget about beneficials and use h202 with every watering next round?

RetroGrow · Mar 2, 2015

Actinovate is a benny. Don't forget the bennies! They really work. Other good ones are OG Biowar. They have "foliar" and "root".
I wouldn't toss the mothers if they are not showing any symptoms, but that has to be your call. I would inoculate them with Actinovate, though, and OG Biowar.
http://ogbiowar.com/

Steam cleaning works.
Physan is a good disinfectant.

Thcvhunter · Mar 2, 2015

Howdy,

I've gotten fucked by Fusarium.
Luckily, that's not Fusarium Oxysporum.
That looks to be either stem rot or a soil borne pest.

Can you show us pictures of your roots?
can you show us a picture(s) of affected/dead plant's dissected roots?

Fusarium oxypsorum discolors the roots a reddish color. The leaves turn colors, similar to an underfed, fully seeded plant, but has an 'odd' look about her.

Can you access a microscope to exam your soil from different samples to look for ciliates (indicative of anaerobic conditions) and Nematodes (the mouths can have a 'poker' or a 'sucker' to "help" differentiate between beneficial and harmful; but i have dyslexia so i cant remember clearly which one is which)

Have you checked out the thread here, something about 'Duds'?
that thread talks a lot about soil borne pathogens and pests

TheOutlawTree · Mar 2, 2015

Thcvhunter said:
Howdy,

I've gotten fucked by Fusarium.
Luckily, that's not Fusarium Oxysporum.
That looks to be either stem rot or a soil borne pest.

Can you show us pictures of your roots?
can you show us a picture(s) of affected/dead plant's dissected roots?

Fusarium oxypsorum discolors the roots a reddish color. The leaves turn colors, similar to an underfed, fully seeded plant, but has an 'odd' look about her.

Can you access a microscope to exam your soil from different samples to look for ciliates (indicative of anaerobic conditions) and Nematodes (the mouths can have a 'poker' or a 'sucker' to "help" differentiate between beneficial and harmful; but i have dyslexia so i cant remember clearly which one is which)

Have you checked out the thread here, something about 'Duds'?
that thread talks a lot about soil borne pathogens and pests

I did not take any pictures of the roots and ended up bringing them in the woods far from my house. Now that you mention red roots im wishing I could take another look.

I checked the roots thoroughly today with 100x scope and could only find tiny nematodes. There were quite a few of them actually. No Root aphids or anything else to be found. I have been scoping these plants rather frequently like 2x a week to make sure there were no root aphids. The only thing I could ever find was these nematodes, hence why I applied the Monterey nematode control. That was 2 days ago and theres still plenty of them alive- im not sure how long it takes to kill them.

I have read a little bit of the Dud thread and now that you mention it I will take another look. I wonder if having a bunch of clones in the EZ cloner can spread the stem nematode.

Either way- Ive had enough of a problem at this place and its driving me insane not knowing exactly what is wrong with the plants. Its time I send in some samples to a lab which is the plan this week.

Thcvhunter · Mar 2, 2015

I'm definitely thinking nematode

When you say you keep seeing nematodes. . . . :/

Yes, your EZ cloner will spread the infestation.

your brown woody stem, Ive seen that somewhere before in the dud thread.

Maybe try ordering predatory nematodes, if you want to stay organic/safe

RetroGrow · Mar 6, 2015

TheOutlawTree said:
I have read a little bit of the Dud thread and now that you mention it I will take another look. I wonder if having a bunch of clones in the EZ cloner can spread the stem nematode.

Stem nematodes are microscopic, so you wouldn't be able to see them. They enter plants through the stomata, not the roots, and none has ever been confirmed by testing in Cannabis, so that's not what you are seeing. Many nematodes are beneficial, and if you are not seeing galls, or tumor looking growth, they are probably not the bad guys. Only a nematode specialist can identify which ones you have. I am betting beneficial. EZ cloner can spread fusarium, though. Fusarium rots the base of the stem, which is why I'm betting on that. It is also common.

TheOutlawTree · Mar 7, 2015

RetroGrow said:
Stem nematodes are microscopic, so you wouldn't be able to see them. They enter plants through the stomata, not the roots, and none has ever been confirmed by testing in Cannabis, so that's not what you are seeing. Many nematodes are beneficial, and if you are not seeing galls, or tumor looking growth, they are probably not the bad guys. Only a nematode specialist can identify which ones you have. I am betting beneficial. EZ cloner can spread fusarium, though. Fusarium rots the base of the stem, which is why I'm betting on that. It is also common.

Thanks for your input my friend.

I picked up a bunch of Guerilla glue the other day and have been very careful not to let them touch anything that's been contaminated from before.

I dropped off some samples to the lab on tuesday and should be hearing back next week on what the problem is.

RetroGrow · Mar 7, 2015

By the way, Home Depot sells beneficial nematodes in their garden shop, cheap.

Storm Shadow · Mar 7, 2015

Stem nematodes can enter the plant via the roots all day/night. .. you suffocated the roots from the Monterey drench... get some Chitosan and let it destroy those Nematodes

TheArchitect · Mar 7, 2015

Kinda looked like rot at the root crown from the pic and description.

Was there a rotten ring at the base of the stem? If so was it noticeable without cutting into the stem?

A basal stem application of eagle20 can work if its just a run of the mill pathogenic fungi, f.oxysporum are a real bitch though.

Chitosan is a good thing in general, if you don't want to order from China, bud factor x has it in it, use it at the reccomended rate, but you only need to apply once a week not every watering, and a foliar with silica chitosan and sulfuric acid is a great preventative on a multitude of fronts.

TheOutlawTree · Mar 7, 2015

Storm Shadow said:
Stem nematodes can enter the plant via the roots all day/night. .. you suffocated the roots from the Monterey drench... get some Chitosan and let it destroy those Nematodes

Ive tried to contact that Chinese supplier of Chitosan oligosaccharide multiple times and they haven't got back to me. Not sure if I should just grab some domestically or what. Ide like to find the Chitosan Oligosaccharide lactate so I can just mix it in water. Ill look more today. Thanks

TheOutlawTree · Mar 7, 2015

TheArchitect said:
Kinda looked like rot at the root crown from the pic and description.

Was there a rotten ring at the base of the stem? If so was it noticeable without cutting into the stem?

A basal stem application of eagle20 can work if its just a run of the mill pathogenic fungi, f.oxysporum are a real bitch though.

Chitosan is a good thing in general, if you don't want to order from China, bud factor x has it in it, use it at the reccomended rate, but you only need to apply once a week not every watering, and a foliar with silica chitosan and sulfuric acid is a great preventative on a multitude of fronts.

Thank you brother!

Thcvhunter · Mar 7, 2015

yes, that could be non-oxysporum Fusarium, i.e. run-of-the-mill Fusarium

Look into Ecosmart 33118

Thcvhunter · Mar 7, 2015

Woah, just saw recommendation of EAGLE-20....

If you can't remedy your plants without Eagle-20 then have someone else grow your plants.
The only reason to use Eagle-20 is utter laziness.

Check out Integrated Pest Management, aka IPM.
FPE(fermented plant extract) Neem oil, Dr Bronners, apple cider vinegar garlic ginger extract, Ecosmart, peppermint/thyme/rosemary FPE's, cilantro , fenugreek sprout teas.

Fusarium or verticillium?

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